Topic: Does revving your 22R high shorten its life? Let's find out!

[Lewis Hein]

I'm sure we all want our 22R engines to last as long as possible. Or maybe we want to shift at the redline and wring every ounce of fun out of our Toyotas before they blow up with a bang. Whichever camp you're in, I'm not going to judge you. But all of us could benefit from a solid answer to the question: does revving my 22R engine higher shorten it's life? That's why this thread exists.

If you want to participate, answer a couple of questions:

1: At what vehicle speed (in miles per hour) do/did you shift your 22R-powered vehicle from 2nd to 3rd?
2: At what mileage and how did it quit (rod knock, excessive wear, etc)? If it's still going strong, just give the current mileage


After we have enough data I'll make some pretty pictures and do a fancy statistical test to give us a nice informative answer

[emsvitil]

1.  Don't know mph (I have tach)

Normal driving:

1st to 2nd    4000 rpm
2nd to 3rd    3500 rpm
3rd to 4th     3000 rpm    or 3rd to 5th if I'm up to speed already  (or really close to up to speed, I'll go a little more rpm to skip 4th)
4th to 5th      when I'm up to speed

2.   Over 172k miles so far.     Went to LCE dual timing chain conversion at 135k when replacement timing chain skipped 2 teeth (it replace OEM at about 80k)

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

I'll add my numbers. I have no tach so I'll go with MPH. The two are pretty easy to convert with Marlin's handy gear ratio chart.

1:
1st to 2nd: 10  MPH
2nd to 3rd: 30 MPH
3rd to 4th: 45 MPH
4th to 5th: 50 MPH

2.
227k on the clock and counting

[sirdeuce]

In my 4X shifting was in the low RPM ranges, 3500-4500 RPM.
 In the 2WD truck and Celica shifts would be 5500+ RPM.
With the stock engines I'd see lifespans over 250k miles even when driven hard.
In the race engines RPMs would be around 7500+ RPM and they would be torn down every season.
I've only had one engine fail at the rod/rod bearing and that was fomr a punture in the oil pan losing all the oil.
The Crankshaft can spin to Rpm ranges way beyond the rods capability. Overheating can cause the crank to bend/warp that'll freeze it up in the block.
The stock rods can go to 7000RPM all day long. With polishing and relieving done properly the rods can handle 7500RPM over extended periods. Heat treating both hot and cold don't help.


Typically, if maintained well enough, the 22R/RE can take massive abuse and just go on like it's another day. Most failures come from poor maintenance or oil starvation(rod related failure anyway).
My last '81 had over a million miles on it when I got it and I drove the dog snot out of it for eight years after that. Failure came from ingesting a nut. Not sure where the nut came from, but I believe it was the neighbor sabotaging my truck9Bit of a story there).

[Gnarly4X]

"Does revving your 22R high shorten its life? Let's find out!".... 

Hey Lewis..

For someone who regularly touts your “physics police” checks, I am looking forward to your physics here. 

“does revving my 22R engine higher shorten it's life?” 

Perhaps some definitions are needed here: 

What is “revving my 22R engine higher” mean?

What is the definition of “it’s life”?

Before we get too far into a thread with anecdotal opinions that will most likely prove virtually nothing regarding engine RPMs and engine life, there are many studies and published reports done on engine life over many decades by all kinds of “experts”.  The studies range from just about all internal combustion engines, including automotive, gas, diesel, airplane, boats, motorcycles, etc. The essence of any conclusions to the question is almost universal and boils down one common factor  – neglect and maintenance.

So a more realistic measure of engine life would be to gather “data” on periodic maintenance, mileage between maintenance.

Since it’s a well-known fact that oil lubricated engine component wear occurs most at a cold start….. 

Do engines driven in extreme cold weather climates reduce engine life?

Does the type or brand of motor oil and filter affect engine life?

Does the air and air filter affect engine life?

In my opinion, there are way too many variables to the question to “do a fancy statistical test to give us a nice informative answer”…However it will be fun to read about how people drive and maintain their vehicle.

Gnarls. 

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

"Does revving your 22R high shorten its life? Let's find out!".... 

Hey Lewis..

For someone who regularly touts your “physics police” checks, I am looking forward to your physics here. 

“does revving my 22R engine higher shorten it's life?” 

Perhaps some definitions are needed here: 

What is “revving my 22R engine higher” mean?

What is the definition of “it’s life”?

Before we get too far into a thread with anecdotal opinions that will most likely prove virtually nothing regarding engine RPMs and engine life, there are many studies and published reports done on engine life over many decades by all kinds of “experts”.  The studies range from just about all internal combustion engines, including automotive, gas, diesel, airplane, boats, motorcycles, etc. The essence of any conclusions to the question is almost universal and boils down one common factor  – neglect and maintenance.

So a more realistic measure of engine life would be to gather “data” on periodic maintenance, mileage between maintenance.

Since it’s a well-known fact that oil lubricated engine component wear occurs most at a cold start….. 

Do engines driven in extreme cold weather climates reduce engine life?

Does the type or brand of motor oil and filter affect engine life?

Does the air and air filter affect engine life?

In my opinion, there are way too many variables to the question to “do a fancy statistical test to give us a nice informative answer”…However it will be fun to read about how people drive and maintain their vehicle.

Gnarls. 

These questions either have obvious answers or are not relevant to the thread. Also the thread is to collect data, not anecdotal opinions. Also note that I said it would be an informative answer, not a definitive one.

One more off-topic post, from anyone, and this thread will be deleted. I don't have time for endless arguments 

[Prismo]

I regularly shift at 4 to 5,000 rpm with my engine and see no difference in longevity compared to running it at lower rpms when shifting. I used to limit my engines to 4000 rpm in 2 of my earlier engines. They all seem to last the same number of miles. That is my experience over 4 different 22re engines. Changing oil & filter & adjusting valves at regular intervals seem to affect longevity more.

[sirdeuce]

Basically, for a relation between engine life and RPM, the 20-22R/RE engine family, in stock form, won't rev high enough to shorten the engines life. With the exception of a few (gas) engines RPMs up to 6500RPMs don't really accelerate wear. If the engineering is right, weights, fluid flow rates, bearing surface area should be capable of operating parameters well beyond the stated limits before longevity becomes diminished. At least as long as the operator performs proper maintenance.
With that said, I will say look at my earlier post and consider that opinion is based on hundreds of 20-22R engines from stock to wild, to stoopid.

One thing that kills an engine faster than anything else is loading at low RPM when the oil pressure is low, an of course bogging the engine. The R engine is one that does well there likke the Ford 2.3 "Pinto" and 2 liter Mazda/Ford engine, 2.7 liter Pontiac/Jeep "Iron Duke", a few more as well as far as 4 bangers. I found the engineering to battle killer bog issue is wider than necessary bearing/journal areas with larger clearances and high volume oil supply. Though oil starvation negates any engineering devised to battle overloading the engine. Just the way that goes.

The 22R is tuned to drop power hard after 5500RPM so in stock form spinning the engine to RPMs that could be considered dangerous or detrimental to the internal components is unnecessary.

[Snowtoy]

Since my first Toyota didn't have an rpm gauge, I learned to shift it by ear, which I still do.  Paying attention to the rpm gauge when I go to up shift driving non aggressively,
1st at 3800, 15mph
2nd at 3800, 30mph
3rd at 4200. 50mph
4th at 3800, 70mph

[sirdeuce]

As far as revving your engine goes, there was the time I had to drive home with a broken trans, hockey stick snapped, got the trans in 2nd gear and drove some 70 miles home, 152, 99, 180(CA highways, Madera to Fresburg). Kept up with traffic the whole way, actually hoping to blow that engine so I would have an excuse to rebuild it. Drove that Celica 2 more years after that. Ended up junking the car because I found cracks in the chassis, but the engine still ran strong. That car turned the clock over several times after I got it.

[85Toyotar]

1: I shift from 2nd to 3rd at 25 MPH (dont have a tachometer so I shift when it sounds like its time )
2: Roughly 152,000 and counting