Topic: Burnt ceramic on spark plugs

[V-Man]

Geezzz e... you beat me to it.

You should just start a new thread for EasyD, and not fubar this very interesting corona-stain-engine-misfire-over-torqued spark plugs discourse. 

Gnarls.

Not sure how people got the idea the engine was misfiring, and throwing codes( oh ya. BGEN).  The reason for the thread was the 4runner was running like a pile of  but there was no misfire or codes.   New plugs and she  goes like greased snot.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

I dont think ive gotten as far as a dirt stain on my posts.  And though i would like to read your book i stopped after chapter 1.  And besgen got the idea that it was misfiring cause, other than wear (gap),  there is no other true reason to replace a spark unless it is misfiring.   Spark plugs do NOT increase power!!!!!  Thats why when you say your vehicle runs better it make automotive technicians heads tilt and call BS.  They sold you bro, then did something to make it run better, like  Placebo effect.

[V-Man [OP]]

I dont think ive gotten as far as a dirt stain on my posts.  And though i would like to read your book i stopped after chapter 1.  And besgen got the idea that it was misfiring cause, other than wear (gap),  there is no other true reason to replace a spark unless it is misfiring.   Spark plugs do NOT increase power!!!!!  Thats why when you say your vehicle runs better it make automotive technicians heads tilt and call BS.  They sold you bro, then did something to make it run better, like  Placebo effect.

Well I must be the greatest BS salesman in the World, because I did all the work.  You mean to tell me I did major work on a  motor in my sleep, lied to myself that I did it and told myself it was just bad plugs, and I believed myself because I am too stupid. 

I posted a thread, explained what happened. Asked if anyone had seen anything like it.  Get told engine was/had to be doing things it was not, and to shut up and piss off. 


You and Bgen remind me of the technician in the case of the customer with the car that did not like Vanilla ice cream. 

Man buys a new car from dealer, ( this is in the 70's)and loves it. But over the summer it starts having a problem. Takes it to dealer, and explains what happens. 
Every day in the afternoon he drives to the store to get ice cream. Some times he buys chocolate, some times strawberry,  and some times vanilla. 
When he buys chocolate or strawberry he walks out and the car just starts right up, but if he buys vanilla it is very hard to start. 

Techs say there is nothing wrong with the car and the guy is nuts.   Owner is not happy with car and does not trust it, so he wants to return it.  A "MECHANIC" he knows asked some questions..
1) It is summer
2) The Temperature is near 100°F
3) He is shopping at a large Grocery chain
4) Because the Vanilla ice is very popular it is right at the front of store.
5) The other two are at the back of the store.
6) It takes longer to buy chocolate or strawberry ice cream then the vanilla.


Can you guess what the problem was? 

[:)bestgen4runner]

Why am I being included in this.    I think I was pretty cool about the whole thing.
I still don't think it makes any sense but am open to the fact that I don't know everything and that anything is possible. Now I will say that it's a first to have this happen in this way. spark plugs don't fix what You have described but any thing is possible. I guess 

[V-Man [OP]]

Why am I being included in this.    I think I was pretty cool about the whole thing.
I still don't think it makes any sense but am open to the fact that I don't know everything and that anything is possible. Now I will say that it's a first to have this happen in this way. spark plugs don't fix what You have described but any thing is possible. I guess 

Yes you have been good.  You did call me a bit of a nut  bar some at the start but you also dug around and came up with some real good info.
 

Like you have said new plugs is not the normal solution to this problem  

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

Haha, again not reading that book

[V-Man [OP]]

Haha, again not reading that book

You mean then your clueless on the answer.  I'll give you a hint.

He told the guy to crack( open the hood a couple inches ) the hood before he walked in to the store on the next trip to buy vanilla ice cream see if the problem goes away...
It is the second last hint you have one left...do you want to call a friend?

[300k]

After replacing the NGK Iridium IX plugs and NGK wires with Toyota plugs and wires, I noticed a performance gain. Every time I drive home I have to pull this gnarly hill. You have about 1000 foot of run up from a dead stop, and then 1500 feet of a fairly steep climb. I've always hit it at about 3,000 to 3,500 in 3rd gear and by the time you hit the top you're at 2,000 RPM. With new plugs it stays in the powerband and keeps pulling. Maybe this is an issue with the NGK Iridium plugs, but it's not placebo.

[:)bestgen4runner]

After replacing the NGK Iridium IX plugs and NGK wires with Toyota plugs and wires, I noticed a performance gain. Every time I drive home I have to pull this gnarly hill. You have about 1000 foot of run up from a dead stop, and then 1500 feet of a fairly steep climb. I've always hit it at about 3,000 to 3,500 in 3rd gear and by the time you hit the top you're at 2,000 RPM. With new plugs it stays in the powerband and keeps pulling. Maybe this is an issue with the NGK Iridium plugs, but it's not placebo.

You had a misfire condition prior to replacement of the wires and plugs 300k. In a misfire situation, you would for sure have more power after repairs as the cylinders are now completely firing.
This is not similar to the above situation at all. 
Misfire- less power
No misfire- correct amount of power
New spark plugs- Magic fairy dust additional power (no one can feel this additional power except for the owner of the vehicle or Gnarly)

  I am still thinking about the Repair that V-man performed and have another question for Him that could answer the mystery. Is there any possibility that You disconnected the battery at the time of repairs? If so the computer would revert back to it's original fuel map and this could explain the dramatic difference in performance experienced.
Interesting fact. When I hit the Spell check magic box it wants to change V-man to woman. haha funny stuff.

[300k]

I only drove on the misfire for maybe 10 minutes. Do not know how it drove besides that it could barely get moving and shook like an alcoholic at noon time.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I only drove on the misfire for maybe 10 minutes. Do not know how it drove besides that it could barely get moving and shook like an alcoholic at noon time.

Is that a shot at OMR? Nice. I just rewarded you with some turtle point for that one. Well played Sir.
I am sure it was misfiring before You experienced the full force of the dark side.

[RASALIBRE]

You dudes are funny. I dig the fact that of the only two currently active posts in this forum, one is a 19 year old with some fairly stout mechanical aptitude, problem solving skills, and money saving/spending logic and the other is a bunch of grown ass men bickering over spark plugs, misfires, and who’s got the bigger torque wrench. I thought I had little faith in the younger generation. Anyways, good game, got me to register and post.

[:)bestgen4runner]

You dudes are funny. I dig the fact that of the only two currently active posts in this forum, one is a 19 year old with some fairly stout mechanical aptitude, problem solving skills, and money saving/spending logic and the other is a bunch of grown ass men bickering over spark plugs, misfires, and who’s got the bigger torque wrench. I thought I had little faith in the younger generation. Anyways, good game, got me to register and post.

  Your sucked in now. Feel Free to join the addiction. 

[300k]

Is that a shot at OMR?

No. I didn't say "like Micheal J. Fox" because I was trying not to be too rude.

[V-Man [OP]]

I am still thinking about the Repair that V-man performed and have another question for Him that could answer the mystery. Is there any possibility that You disconnected the battery at the time of repairs? If so the computer would revert back to it's original fuel map and this could explain the dramatic difference in performance experienced.
Interesting fact. When I hit the Spell check magic box it wants to change V-man to woman. haha funny stuff.

 I changed the fuel filters, and got no improvement.  Spent a few hours going over the wire harness looking for damage( it's kind of nice laying on a warm motor in a Canadian Winter), and then checked the plugs. That was when I found the high resistance short. Pulled one plug and tested it, but it was getting darker so I put it back in.  Karen had a burnt out low beam on the drivers side, so I replaced both low beams, and then replaced the wipers.  Next day I went back out and removed and test all the old plugs( same high resistance), I then installed the new plugs.  Started 4runner and test drove it. Much better....

Hey Bgen....what is right behind the driver's side head lights, and you would remove just to get your big fat fingers on the bulbs..

Looks like half the mystery has been solved.  But what was causing the problem to start with.

As for spell check, it's likely written by an LGBT programmer.   

[300k]

As for spell check, it's likely written by an LGBT programmer.   

I never use it (cause I completed 2nd grade) but it must not work, cause BJen still spells stuff wrong.

[V-Man [OP]]

I never use it (cause I completed 2nd grade) but it must not work, cause BJen still spells stuff wrong.

Second problem with spell checkers is which Dialect of English does it use? 
American:
 Center as in " The flowers are in the center of the table."
 Center as in " We watched the game at the sports Center."


Canadian:
 Center as in " The flowers are in the center of the table."
 Centre as in " We watched the game at the sports Centre."

[Gnarly4X]

There's an automotive genius behind a keyboard on every auto forum. 

Even bgen didn't know about "corona stain"!!  (his reply on post #28)

It’s amazing how we can go from over-torqued spark plugs to gay spellcheckers and fairy dust power gains all in a couple hours. 

The tech part of the forum was getting sluggish, so V-Man asked a good question and requested input.  The sandbox poopers jumped into the tech forums and away we goooooo…!! 

Not to get deep into conceptual semantics or linguistics, but a "misfire" doesn’t necessarily mean the cylinder did not fire.  There could be a range of combustion, fuel mixture burn, or energy due to the condition of the spark plug or voltage making the spark.  A weak spark plug may or may not throw a code, or light up the check engine light. 

The ECU is programmed to look at a range of sensor input values.  The ECU started to “reset” as soon as the new spark plugs were installed and engine started.  It doesn’t matter if the battery was disconnected or not.  5 to 10 minutes of normal driving would most likely have the ECU completely happy again. 

Now… V-man changed spark plugs – problem fixed.  One simple way to determine if the spark plugs were causing the “problem” is to put the same plugs back into engine. 

If a bad spark can reduce “power”, then logically a good spark can increase “power”. 

Oh…. and you should be careful about dinging someone about their spelling or grammar.  Some of the most knowledgeable and respected engine building geniuses I know could not spell their way out of a wet paper bag, but when they spoke or posted their comments, I took notes. 

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

V-man?
Do it please...
 One simple way to determine if the spark plugs were causing the “problem” is to put the same plugs back into engine. 

[V-Man [OP]]

V-man?
Do it please...
 One simple way to determine if the spark plugs were causing the “problem” is to put the same plugs back into engine. 

Sure...just thinking maybe you could come help..
Currently back home( I am in Southern GA right now) it is -5°C( 23°F) snowing with freezing rain.   We should only have to stand out in the driveway for an hour..to swap the old ones back in..

[AZ Rockit]

Sure...just thinking maybe you could come help..
Currently back home( I am in Southern GA right now) it is -5°C( 23°F) snowing with freezing rain.   We should only have to stand out in the driveway for an hour..to swap the old ones back in..

Guessing with Bestgen there, it will probably be 3 hours...1 hour to R&R spark plugs and 2 hours to listen to Bestgen tell you how to use the wrench correctly...

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

Theres probably too much pride to get accurate results at this point...  They still have yet to accept that there is either spark or no spark (fire or misfire).  That is if both sets of plugs were new and assuming gaps were accurate.  Spark plugs do not increase power.  Sure one can smooth things out if there is fouling and/or actual wear, but from what we have been told this is not the case. Ive seen alot of carbon arching on outside of the porcelain.  But not once ever have i seen a cold start or power increase or any other symptoms because of a dirt ring where the plug or coil boot doesnt protect.  Your answer is not the ring.  Pull those plugs out in 10k and i bet they look just like the old ones.  Vanilla? Yuck!

[V-Man [OP]]

Vanilla? Yuck!

Well good thing you only buy chocolate or strawberry.    Because as you have already said, if you bought Vanilla you could never figure out the problem..

[Gnarly4X]

Theres probably too much pride to get accurate results at this point...  They still have yet to accept that there is either spark or no spark (fire or misfire).  That is if both sets of plugs were new and assuming gaps were accurate.  Spark plugs do not increase power.  Sure one can smooth things out if there is fouling and/or actual wear, but from what we have been told this is not the case. Ive seen alot of carbon arching on outside of the porcelain.  But not once ever have i seen a cold start or power increase or any other symptoms because of a dirt ring where the plug or coil boot doesnt protect.  Your answer is not the ring.  Pull those plugs out in 10k and i bet they look just like the old ones.  Vanilla? Yuck!

Hey EASYRYDERDANGER,

I don’t think “pride” has anything to do with accurate results.  V-Man already HAS accurate results! 

I’ve read over the years lots of idiotic statements in thousands of threads and bazillion posts.  I’ve read that statement before. “Spark plugs do not increase power.” 

If that statement were true, then using simple logic these statements would also be true…

Increased compression ratio does not increase power. 

A higher lift camshaft does not increase power. 

Doug Thorley headers do not increase power. 

High flow carburetors do not increase power. 

Changing ignition timing does not increase power. 

Here’s one very reputable demonstration of spark plugs increasing power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PPXLFYCNCc   

Your statement:  “They still have yet to accept that there is either spark or no spark (fire or misfire).”...is also absurd.  So, there cannot be a weak spark? 

Your comments appear to be an attempt to discredit what V-Man experienced and the facts from reliable sources, and espouse some kind of anecdotal automotive genius on your part. 

Of course that’s just my opinion – and it may be a misfire. 

So, what is YOUR definition of “power”? 

Gnarls.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

That video is complete BS.  That engine is NOT stock application, with that being said, after changing an engine profile most likely those stock plugs were not of the correct heat range.  See you still dont get it.  If spark plugs actually increased power we would all be running E3 plugs right now.  "Improve power!!! Restore performance!!!!   Arrrghhh!!!"   If you dont buy these plugs you better be in jail, and if you are in jail, BrEaK OuT!!!   Dont forget who delivers the spark silly nuts, its not the plug, its the coil.  The plug doesnt randomly decide to have more voltage output.  More expensive plugs are just different quality to last longer. 

[V-Man [OP]]

Easyderanger, it's been said more then a few times in past posts that the plugs are not curing the problem by themself.  There was a problem with the plugs but it was not the one and only cause/solution to the problem.

Maybe if you asked a few more questions and made less proclamations, you would have an easier time solving the ice cream problem.

Maybe if you buy Bgen a coffee he will explain the reason the guy's car had problems everytime he bought vanilla ice cream. 

[:)bestgen4runner]

Easyderanger, it's been said more then a few times in past posts that the plugs are not curing the problem by themself.  There was a problem with the plugs but it was not the one and only cause/solution to the problem.

Maybe if you asked a few more questions and made less proclamations, you would have an easier time solving the ice cream problem.

Maybe if you buy Bgen a coffee he will explain the reason the guy's car had problems everytime he bought vanilla ice cream.

I don't drink Coffee. 

[V-Man [OP]]

I don't drink Coffee. 

  maybe...

You understand the reason for the guy's car not starting I assume.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

How many scoops?

[V-Man [OP]]

How many scoops?

Just admit it. You have no clue.  .   If the computer does not tell you what parts to replace you can't fix  .