Author Topic: HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise  (Read 1314 times)

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Morpheine

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HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise
« on: Nov 07, 2005, 03:32:56 PM »
So, so, so

I'm planning to do a 3rz swap after winter, which I've started posting about BUT I need to get some things up and happy first.

No question's a dumb question, right? ....heh ...well, then you'll get used to me....I'm not lazy...just new...ok, I'm lazy.... :angel:

1st:
I picked this truck up from a relative...I figured the knowledge of it's past was really quite worth it. $1200 CAN.  maybe I'll throw a pic up for you guys so you can judge. Amazing frame (rust?!?! what rust!), tires, '92 22RE engine, custom (but a little rusty) nerf's and brush guard. I'd say I'm doing alright.  :crossed:      WELL, ... on my 1400km (forgive the metric  :usa: )  trip back with it, I got to know all the nice little quirks and sounds. It sounds real rough in first, second, third, and fifth.  Now I've seen other mentions about a similar case with others, but I just want to be sure. And NO, it's smooth as silk and barely humms in 4th.  In fifth, it kindda settles in to making a little less noise after a bit, but anytime I shift out, and then back in, it get's angry and makes a nasty noise again for a bit untill it makes less..."less" is not all that quiet though. It sounds like a loud, constant hollow scraping sound in place of the normal sound of a transmission. It only makes noise when in gear.  ....now, I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but whaddya' think? ....I'm trying to get a sure idea before I go have some guy rip me off for nothing. Secondly....I was wondering, which trans model do I have?   56?

2nd:
I have lame brakes. Before I made plans to buy this truck, the guy who had it replaced the master cylinder with a new one from NAPA. He's real good at wrenching, so I know he did it right. He got nowhere with it. So, his dad and I (retired mechanic) made the long trip to Fort Mcmurray, Alberta (you can look that up under: "HELL and back!") for all you Yank's...that our Northern JOKE of a place to go.... :tantrum:     last stop before the TUNDRA!!!!
anyways.....we get there. Spend 4 days on this problem, and nothing really any better. We pulled apart the master cylinder, put it back together, and nothing better. Went to a wrecker, found a 4runner with hard brakes and ripped that master cylinder off, ...replaced it in my truck...nothing...maybe a little worse. SO IT'S NOT THE MASTER CYLINDER.
ok...then what. We checked all the lines all the way.....no flex's were bad...actually really nice....he had them replaced 3 years ago, and of course nice kindda new'ish hard lines. So, he had an idea....we bought a small brake line from NAPA, and piched it off. We put it in the master cylinder, in place of the line that goes to the back brakes (through the proportioner) and PERFECT....well, perfect FRONT BRAKES. So, any time we put the back brakes back on (this of course includes the proportioner) the front and back go lame. They work enough that I could get back fine, but I've got to pedal the brake to the floor to get a real hard stop. No, it doesn't creep or anything....it just has to go a good ways before there's even a small contact, and then just at the floor it gets hard.
So we decide it had to be something in back somewhere, since the front brakes are great, if you don't add the back, and the proportioner
Before we started any of this, we checked over the drums in the back and the front brakes. There was an adjuster that was rusted frozen, but we cleaned it perfect redid all the pads to make sure they all move and work properly, bled the brakes TOOOOOO many times through all this, and adjusted the brakesall the way out til they were exact. We also made sure that 'pushrod' thing from the booster was set up right,...and that the brake pedal was adjusted right.
So, it leaves us with one thing....the proportioning valve.
 :wall:
NOW, ....NO MANUAL I COULD GET MY HANDS ON GIVES ME ANY INFO ON THIS.
al they say is, take it to an expert, we don't want you killing yourself, so we're not even going to tell you what it even does, so you don't get any smart ideas on fiddling with it!   :soapbox:
Well, we took it off anyways. We took it all apart...it's rather simplistic. ...actually it aggrivatingly simple!!! :screwy:
So, we cleaned a little of the gunk up a bit, and put it back. It helped...kindda. Well, enough that we decided they were good enough for the return trip, at that point.
After looking it all over, the only parts it can be....since there ARE NO OTHER PARTS IN THE SYSTEM, would have to be the master cylinder (yeah, right) or that  :censored: proportioning valve . (<----- IT'S EVIL!!!!)         

So, any ideas? What the hell does it do?...why would it be so frustrating like this. I saw the post about modifying them. I might do that, but is it even working anymore?!?!?  I had a donor '87 pickup I ripped one off of. Aside from the arm being too short, it seems to be the exact same. I was looking to pulling it apart/rebuiding it, and seeing if I can use it. BUT WHAT THE HELL?
Is there anything else I should look into?....am I completely blind to the real problem.  :help:  .....uggghh....

anyways...thanks for any heads up as to what to do.

-Morpheine
88' 4Runner 2.4L

brainlessfool

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Re: HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise
« Reply #1 on: Nov 07, 2005, 05:14:38 PM »
Hello to my northern brother. :wave:

sounds like you've covered most the normal stuff, I still check the back ajt. and sure there snug.

sec. that valve, replace it. there that's it .  :twocents:
A good day working, that's just sick :reg:

Morpheine [OP]

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Re: HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise
« Reply #2 on: Nov 08, 2005, 02:54:28 PM »
Well, I was gonna trash that old valve anyways...if I couldn't do something to get it nice and happy again...just trying to figure out what that damn...(*sigh*....take a deep breath.....relax....calm...*OOOOOOHHHHMMMMM...OOOOOHHHMMMM* find your happy place.....)

ok...I'm fine...

...like I was saying ...just trying to figure out what that....THING....does...and why it'd be buggering up

any ideas what's the last year model that has a compatable proportioning valve? 

anyone got any ideas about the trans?  I know I should just get a replace...I'm just wondering if there's something I can do in the mean time....input shaft?  ....

...thanks, brainy! .....ummm....ajt? the wha?!?!?

-Morpheine
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2005, 02:59:28 PM by Morpheine »
88' 4Runner 2.4L

84toyota

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Re: HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise
« Reply #3 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:58:22 PM »
On the transmission - basically your bearings are shot... the only way to fix it is to have the transmission rebuilt.  That being said, I drove mine that way for 2 years with no catastrophic results, but... it wouldn't be pretty if a bearing came apart... Then you'd be replacing at least a transmission...

The proportioning valve - proportions the amount of breaking you receive to the back wheels...  It is a load-sensing proportioning valve, which means as you pile weight into the back of the truck, your truck bed rides lower to the ground.  The long rod attaching the valve to the rear axle housing will sit at an increasingly horizontal angle as you add weight to the rear.  This adjusts the internals of the valve to allow more breaking to the rear to help you stop...

An experiment you could do is to detach the long rod from the rear axle housing, and wire the long rod as far upright as you can.  This will max out your rear breaking potential.  Beware that the will cause the rear end to skid under heavy breaking with no load in the bed... but you might find that by adjusting the rod, it will help your overall breaking. 

A lot of people will completely do away with the load-sensing proportioning valve, and replace it with a wildwood brand proportioning valve, which is manually adjustable.  Do a search for wildwood proportioning valve... I think they are $20-30...

Ken

Morpheine [OP]

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Re: HELP! : Weak Brakes & Trans Noise
« Reply #4 on: Nov 09, 2005, 01:16:47 AM »
excellent, excellent....I figured as much about the valve...

well, now I have to find a reputable place around here to get the trans work done.....I don't think I'm all that ready to tackle something like that, and I just don't have the time to give my truck the "down-time" I'd need to complete something like that.

I'll check for the valve...I was hoping it wouldn't be much.

again and again, ...thanks to both..

-Morpheine
88' 4Runner 2.4L

 
 
 
 
 

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