Author Topic: Did Marlin Really Invent Toyota Rock Crawling? edited so people don't hate me (Read 13944 times)

83MT · « **on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM »

My banner on top says "Inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling" when I first load the site up. Seriously? I mean is it even an accurate claim? I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

ninja turtle · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:13:11 AM »

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=41422.msg515024;topicseen;highlight=rock%20crawling#msg515024

highridin4x4 · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:28:14 AM »

Its even on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockcrawling

Scott

jonathan82toy · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:30:59 AM »

Everything else is just a copy.....

*FFC* · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:33:03 AM »

Quote from: no-idea on Jul 17, 2009, 09:13:11 AM

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=41422.msg515024;topicseen;highlight=rock%20crawling#msg515024

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM

My banner on top says "Inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling" when I first load the site up. Seriously? I mean is it even an accurate claim? I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

Do your homework

superyota · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 09:41:51 AM »

marlin's the best!!!!!!!!

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:01:56 AM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM

My banner on top says "Inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling" when I first load the site up. Seriously? I mean is it even an accurate claim? I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

yes its TRUE, don't believe all the

you read on our competitor forums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockcrawling

Quote

Rock crawling is an extreme form of off road driving using vehicles anywhere from stock to highly modified to overcome obstacles. In rock crawling, drivers drive highly modified four-wheel-drive vehicles such as trucks, Jeeps, and "buggies" over very harsh terrain. Driving locations include boulders, mountain foothills, rock piles, mountain trails, etc.

The origin of rock crawling as a commonly used household term has been claimed by the Fresno, CA based Toyota rock crawling company, Marlin Crawler, Inc., who claims to have coined the term in April of 1994.[1]. On January 25, 2008, an online survey was started to verify this claim amongst a rock crawling community[2].

BigMike · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:35:22 AM »

I fully believe Marlin Czajkowski invented the term "Rock Crawling" and he put Toyota pickups on the map.
It was my decision to add that to the title bar about two weeks ago.
No other company can claim this and I think we need to embrace it.

For your reading pleasure:

Before Marlin introduced the dualcase concept to North America in 1994, most people wheeled Jeeps and a few Landcruisers. Marlin remembers there being about 1 Toyota (Hilux) minitruck per every 50 Jeeps. He remembers going out onto the trail and saying, "Come awn girl,

please don't let me down!" Everyone used to make fun of these "Japanese tin cans", saying that all minitrucks were a bunch of burnt up clutches that were too long. Jeeps used to literally drive circles around minitrucks.

Terrible, terrible odds, Jeeps far out numbered Toyota pickups.

Marlin has been wheeling his truck continuously since 1983. Purchased it in Sept of 83, he had it through Rubicon & Dusy/Ershim the very next spring. He first went up Surprise Canyon in 1992, 2 years before the Marlin Crawler, burning up his clutch the whole way. According to Marlin, everyone made fun of Toyota minitrucks back then $I\'m Down$ No one respected them.

In fact, check this out: Did you know that Marlin's truck was the first Toyota vehicle through the Jack Hammer trail in Johnson Valley? Not only this, he was the #3 vehicle through the trail! This is confirmed by Chuck Shaner(sp?) and Paul "Fuzzyface" who are the godfathers of Johnson Valley from the Victor Valley 4WD club.

How cool is that?!!

The next time you see Marlin's truck, you are looking at the first Toyota up Jack Hammer in the history of the trail. Back then that was totally BAD ASS because NO ONE respected Toyota's!

Now, you look around on Rubicon or Dusy or Johnson Valley, and you tell me what the ratio you see of minitruck to Jeeps? I've been through Rubicon a couple of times with a bunch of Toyotas without seeing a single Jeep.

Back in the day there were no other rigs with spare parts. You had to carry any spare you needed. You couldn't just look around a camp fire and find a spare short side front axle shaft. There weren't ppl in your group with another Hilux. You were it. You were the one weirdo idiot fool taking your underpowered POS Toyota minitruck out of the city and trying to mingle with Jeeps.

That is why Marlin takes pride when he says, "I put Toyota pickups on the map"
This is why I don't believe I am having a "big head" when I say that Marlin Crawler is the inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling. I believe it is a bonafide fact.

BigMike

TacoRunner · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:36:24 AM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM

My banner on top says "Inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling" when I first load the site up. Seriously? I mean is it even an accurate claim? I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

Do some homework before you post crap like that.

BigMike · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:50:39 AM »

I forgot to add that when Marlin took his truck up Jack Hammer by himself with no one else on the trail, when he returned back to base camp, Marlin says Chuck told him: "You stupid fool! You are a dumb farm boy from Fresno! Get your Toyota out of here!"

It didn't take too long for people to start respecting Toyota's after the Marlin Crawler 8)

*FFC* · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:52:33 AM »

Great, mature, and well thought out response Mike

Quote from: BigMike on Jul 17, 2009, 10:35:22 AM

I fully believe Marlin Czajkowski invented the term "Rock Crawling" and he put Toyota pickups on the map.
It was my decision to add that to the title bar about two weeks ago.
No other company can claim this and I think we need to embrace it.

For your reading pleasure:

Before Marlin introduced the dualcase concept to North America in 1994, most people wheeled Jeeps and a few Landcruisers. Marlin remembers there being about 1 Toyota (Hilux) minitruck per every 50 Jeeps. He remembers going out onto the trail and saying, "Come awn girl, please don't let me down!" Everyone used to make fun of these "Japanese tin cans", saying that all minitrucks were a bunch of burnt up clutches that were too long. Jeeps used to literally drive circles around minitrucks.

Terrible, terrible odds, Jeeps far out numbered Toyota pickups.

Marlin has been wheeling his truck continuously since 1983. Purchased it in Sept of 83, he had it through Rubicon & Dusy/Ershim the very next spring. He first went up Surprise Canyon in 1992, 2 years before the Marlin Crawler, burning up his clutch the whole way. According to Marlin, everyone made fun of Toyota minitrucks back then $I\'m Down$ No one respected them.

In fact, check this out: Did you know that Marlin's truck was the first Toyota vehicle through the Jack Hammer trail in Johnson Valley? Not only this, he was the #3 vehicle through the trail! This is confirmed by Chuck Shaner(sp?) and Paul "Fuzzyface" who are the godfathers of Johnson Valley from the Victor Valley 4WD club.

How cool is that?!! The next time you see Marlin's truck, you are looking at the first Toyota up Jack Hammer in the history of the trail. Back then that was totally BAD ASS because NO ONE respected Toyota's!

Now, you look around on Rubicon or Dusy or Johnson Valley, and you tell me what the ratio you see of minitruck to Jeeps? I've been through Rubicon a couple of times with a bunch of Toyotas without seeing a single Jeep.

Back in the day there were no other rigs with spare parts. You had to carry any spare you needed. You couldn't just look around a camp fire and find a spare short side front axle shaft. There weren't ppl in your group with another Hilux. You were it. You were the one weirdo idiot fool taking your underpowered POS Toyota minitruck out of the city and trying to mingle with Jeeps.

That is why Marlin takes pride when he says, "I put Toyota pickups on the map"
This is why I don't believe I am having a "big head" when I say that Marlin Crawler is the inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling. I believe it is a bonafide fact.

BigMike

Quote from: BigMike on Jul 17, 2009, 10:50:39 AM

I forgot to add that when Marlin took his truck up Jack Hammer by himself with no one else on the trail, when he returned back to base camp, Marlin says Chuck told him: "You stupid fool! You are a dumb farm boy from Fresno! Get your Toyota out of here!"

It didn't take too long for people to start respecting Toyota's after the Marlin Crawler 8)

83MT · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:03:08 PM »

Ok, so the "term", not the activity. That works for me. To all you others, you seriously need to chill out. Sound way too much like you'd blindly defend Marlin no matter what the facts. I'm just questioning the statement, and it's clear from the response that Marlin didn't invent "rock crawling", he coined the term for the activity.

So yeah I could have googled it first, big deal, thanks

Seriously though, thanks BigMike for the write up, interesting stuff. I guess Marlin does have a pretty good claim about putting Toyotas on the map.

jonathan82toy · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:10:21 PM »

He may not be the inventor of "Rock Crawling" but.... I feel he is the inventor of "Toyota Rock Crawling" Which is on that banner. I would also defend Marlin no matter what the facts are......

*FFC* · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:11:52 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 12:03:08 PM

Ok, so the "term", not the activity. That works for me. To all you others, you seriously need to chill out. Sound way too much like you'd blindly defend Marlin no matter what the facts. I'm just questioning the statement, and it's clear from the response that Marlin didn't invent "rock crawling", he coined the term for the activity.

So yeah I could have googled it first, big deal, thanks

Seriously though, thanks BigMike for the write up, interesting stuff. I guess Marlin does have a pretty good claim about putting Toyotas on the map.

First of all, I don't "blindly defend" ANYBODY

Second of all, you calling Marlin arrogant is blind

Quote from: jon82toy on Jul 17, 2009, 12:10:21 PM

He may not be the inventor of "Rock Crawling" but.... I feel he is the inventor of "Toyota Rock Crawling" Which is on that banner. I would also defend Marlin no matter what the facts are......

Exactly.

ninja turtle · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:13:26 PM »

Quote from: jon82toy on Jul 17, 2009, 12:10:21 PM

He may not be the inventor of "Rock Crawling" but.... I feel he is the inventor of "Toyota Rock Crawling" Which is on that banner. I would also defend Marlin no matter what the facts are......

x1000 im a bigger fan of marlin czajkowski then marlin crawler inc.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:16:31 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 12:03:08 PM

Ok, so the "term", not the activity. That works for me. To all you others, you seriously need to chill out. Sound way too much like you'd blindly defend Marlin no matter what the facts. I'm just questioning the statement, and it's clear from the response that Marlin didn't invent "rock crawling", he coined the term for the activity.

So yeah I could have googled it first, big deal, thanks

Seriously though, thanks BigMike for the write up, interesting stuff. I guess Marlin does have a pretty good claim about putting Toyotas on the map.

since your so superior in intelligence how about you show some proof of anyone else crawlin rocks with a toyota before Marlin did it

TIMS89CRAWLER · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:26:04 PM »

yes I agree Marlin put toyota rock crawling on the map and nobody can take that away from him! I really enjoyed the write-up BigMike its always cool to learn history about the things we love to do! I have to agree with no-idea in that no matter what anyone thinks of Marlin Crawler Inc. Marlin himself should be a hero to anyone who enjoys rock crawling their toyotas.....

toyodaaddict · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:29:02 PM »

Marlin "the inventor of toyota Rock crawling" has my support all the way.

83MT · « **Reply #18 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:31:45 PM »

Ah, here we go.

My point is not to bash the company, if I wanted to do that I'd post on Trail Gear, not here. But since some people have decided that's what I'm doing, there's not much I can post that will change their minds, eh?

It's a bold statement, so I posted on it. I guess I should have used a better subject, like "did they really invent rock crawling?" and you all wouldn't be so sore, but oh well, I didn't.

I like how this http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=41422.msg515024;topicseen;highlight=rock%20crawling#msg515024 is the online survey that proved the statement: "On January 25, 2008, an online survey was started to verify this claim amongst a rock crawling community[2]."

I'm not saying Marlin didn't invent Toyota rock crawling, I'm saying it's bold statement that if you're going to make, you'd better be ready to defend, which BigMike & Co. seem fully prepared to do, unlike the reactionary hurt-feelings posts from some others.

*sigh*...Well, I chose an unfortunate title for an innocent post, and I'm sorry for that, but I suppose today's as good a day for an internet fight as any other, so...keeping this very un-PC truth in mind (sorry if it offends anyone):

I'm ready. Other than the title making people bristle, what's wrong with me questioning the statement? I Have a lot of respect for the company, that's not the issue.

BigMike · « **Reply #19 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:38:25 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 12:03:08 PM

Seriously though, thanks BigMike for the write up, interesting stuff. I guess Marlin does have a pretty good claim about putting Toyotas on the map.

I had to run to the back to ask Marlin a couple of questions

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 12:03:08 PM

I'm just questioning the statement, and it's clear from the response that Marlin didn't invent "rock crawling", he coined the term for the activity.

Hmmmmmmm

You know, I would like to take this a step further.

NEW QUESTION

For those who were wheeling prior to 1994, what was your final drive ratio? I'll accept all makes and models of vehicles on this one. SM420 you name it, let's hear it.

People in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s up to 1994, I want to know what your final drive ratio was?

Notice I'm not asking for a "Crawl Ratio" since that term was non-existent. I am gonna take a wager and say most people were around 40:1, some around 60:1, and very few over 100:1. If I was asking only for Toyota trucks with all Toyota parts, then I already know the answer will only be about 51:1. So I am allowing V8 conversions with SM420s, NP205, Dana 18/20/300 or brownie boxes -- let's see em!

The point I want to make is ~ 60:1 is NOT Crawling. That is like an Olympic sprinter running downhill with a tail wind on top of a high speed moving walkway.

*FFC* · « **Reply #20 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:41:34 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 12:31:45 PM

Ah, here we go.

My point is not to bash the company, if I wanted to do that I'd post on Trail Gear, not here. But since some people have decided that's what I'm doing, there's not much I can post that will change their minds, eh?

It's a bold statement, so I posted on it. I guess I should have used a better subject, like "did they really invent rock crawling?" and you all wouldn't be so sore, but oh well, I didn't.

I like how this http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=41422.msg515024;topicseen;highlight=rock%20crawling#msg515024 is the online survey that proved the statement: "On January 25, 2008, an online survey was started to verify this claim amongst a rock crawling community[2]."

I'm not saying Marlin didn't invent Toyota rock crawling, I'm saying it's bold statement that if you're going to make, you'd better be ready to defend, which BigMike & Co. seem fully prepared to do, unlike the reactionary hurt-feelings posts from some others.

*sigh*...Well, I chose an unfortunate title for an innocent post, and I'm sorry for that, but I suppose today's as good a day for an internet fight as any other, so...keeping this very un-PC truth in mind (sorry if it offends anyone):

I'm ready. Other than the title making people bristle, what's wrong with me questioning the statement? I Have a lot of respect for the company, that's not the issue.

You're correct - the title was what set me off, as well as the rest of the board most likely. The way you questioned the statement seemed like you were just trying to start

If it's really an innocent statement, I would recommend putting your explanation in your original post when you originally post it. Stating something like that on the PBB would have flown pretty well probably, but here where Marlin's strongest supporters reside, it seemed to be screaming for retaliation

BigMike · « **Reply #21 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:44:07 PM »

I removed a couple posts that were in bad taste. 83MT explained why he asked and I hope everyone can sympathize with him.

Please let's stop bashing and enjoy the day

BigMike

ninja turtle · « **Reply #22 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:48:05 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM

I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

what are the other product statements that are getting a little out of hand?

TIMS89CRAWLER · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:48:27 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Jul 17, 2009, 12:44:07 PM

I removed a couple posts that were in bad taste. 83MT explained why he asked and I hope everyone can sympathize with him.

Please let's stop bashing and enjoy the day

BigMike

sweet I hate it when this place gets to looking like some of the other boards.... it is a nice day for some

Blingn · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 12:49:50 PM »

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or collaborative content community with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 01:16:22 PM »

Dude, thats really freaky.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #26 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 01:19:59 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Jul 17, 2009, 12:44:07 PM

I removed a couple posts that were in bad taste.

Ah but BigMike, what I said was funny. Put it back PLEEEEASE.

Duffil · « **Reply #27 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 02:16:03 PM »

Quote from: 83MT on Jul 17, 2009, 09:09:47 AM

My banner on top says "Inventor of Toyota Rock Crawling" when I first load the site up. Seriously? I mean is it even an accurate claim? I love Marlin Crawler but some of their product statements are getting a little out of hand.

it's just mike's ego. step around it on the left.

IronClad · « **Reply #28 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 03:10:27 PM »

Quote from: Duffil on Jul 17, 2009, 02:16:03 PM

it's just mike's ego. step around it on the left.

83MT · « **Reply #29 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 03:16:41 PM »

Actually that post was funny...what movie was that from? Ok I accept that he coined the term, and that he made toyota rock crawling what it is today. Honestly I jumped the gun a bit...the "inventor of rock crawling" sitting right over the tubing material vs. "another companies" material was too much for me, but then I read the thread behind the tubing debate and I understand where it was coming from. When I first saw it, it just looked like MC picking on somebody, but really they're just trying to correct some borderline false information the "other company" is advertising.

Anyways, BigMike did you write the wikipedia entry?

It's a bold statement to make and it caught my attention. I won't debate the fact that Marlin has been THE leading force of ingenuity in the field. But it's still a strong statement...and the whole "based on an online survey done amongst a rock crawling community " thing...I'm sorry but it's pretty shaky "factual" ground and almost makes the claim less credible by including it. I think the other facts you've stated speak for themselves.

Troll, seriously? Well, with that last post, maybe...at that point I could see it was turning into a fight and yeah, I kind of welcomed it.

Here's my issue with that: "controversial"---this is what BigMike's post on pirate was pulled for. You really have an issue with controversial topics being presented for public discussion? Join the Bush administration.

"...primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"

If you honestly think that was the point behind my post, then I'm sorry. I was a little worked up by the "bragging" tone I saw on the home page. Anyways this is the off topic section and was a new post, so there's no way it could disrupt on-topic discussion.

Anyways...sorry to work people up. I don't have loyalties to other companies, I bought a tranny from here and stuck around for the forum help, so this isn't coming from something I would have heard on another forum or something like that. I opened up the webpage and thought "what's up with that" and posted. I don't have anything on or in my truck that isn't Toyota, Napa or Marlin crawler, so believe me it's not some kind of bashing thing.

You'd really defend him regarldess of the facts? I can respect the loyalty. Can't understand the mindset, but I can respect the loyalty.

83MT [OP]

83MT [OP]

83MT [OP]

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