Lockers

[:)bestgen4runner]

My favorite Poisen. 
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=8
I run it in the front and rear.

[:)bestgen4runner]

"snake oil products"
Them is fighting words, Sir

[SqWADoosh]

I have no doubt that the gear oil is a good product and I would expect it to look anything but perfect in our applications. I would expect the same thing from a conventional gear oil. Mine has always drained looking new. The only difference I have noted in changing gear oils was when I went from conventional to Royal Purple and the exterior temperature of the differential was significantly reduced during highway driving as measure by hand. I am currently running a blend.

I mentioned the Lucas additive because I consider it to be a snake oil product and I have a hard time supporting a company that sells snake oil products when there are other options. 

Have you seen how water reacts to synthetic gear oils compared to conventional?  I did some mixing at home and was surprised at the difference. I actually struggle with the decision to go blend in my diffs where water has the potential to get in.

It is not synthetic.

[SqWADoosh]

My favorite Poisen. 
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=8
I run it in the front and rear.

It was when I asked about using that stuff that he told me to run the 85w-140 Lucas instead. Said it does as good of a job or better for a fraction of the price.

[blackdiamond]

My favorite Poisen. 
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=8
I run it in the front and rear.

That appears to be a super duper overkill product for our application. Being honest, I doubt we could ever tell a difference between running the Lucas, Redline, my Valvoline blend, or even the Walmart brand stuff. There is little science based knowledge readily available online for gear oil, but it's function is much less complicated than motor oil.

BITOG forums dissect motor oil and from what I have gleaned Redline is a fantastic Group V based oil but isn't intended for longer drain applications. Unless you truly need the high temp protection then the value for the dollar goes down. The Walmart stuff actually performs just fine for an average application but the ad pack is weak and wears out faster. The 3,000 OCI makes more sense with it than a current name  brand product.

Most knowledge about oil is anecdotal. The marketing says x and I've never had an issue so it must be true. I am in the category for the most part as it is almost impossible to really compare products long term in a single application.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I would be curios who makes the walmart brand oil for them. I am confident they are not producing it them selves.
My guess is Valvoline, from my experience over the years they have been found to make most of the no name bottles of oil you might pick up at a grocery store or fuel station.
I have used the walmart oil for years now for my less picky or super cheap customers and have had zero problems. Gear oil, ATF, and engine oil.

As far as the redline oil that is so excessively expensive. Its pink guys..... That makes it worth the extra $$$ and way cooler than the other stuff.
When They used to make the real Kendal racing engine oil it was crazy green. like really green! Thus it was better than any other engine oil. 

[blackdiamond]

I would be curios who makes the walmart brand oil for them. I am confident they are not producing it them selves.
My guess is Valvoline, from my experience over the years they have been found to make most of the no name bottles of oil you might pick up at a grocery store or fuel station.
I have used the walmart oil for years now for my less picky or super cheap customers and have had zero problems. Gear oil, ATF, and engine oil.

As far as the redline oil that is so excessively expensive. Its pink guys..... That makes it worth the extra $$$ and way cooler than the other stuff.
When They used to make the real Kendal racing engine oil it was crazy green. like really green! Thus it was better than any other engine oil. 

Are you familiar with the famous (in oil geek circles) German Castrol 0w-30 that was green?  Sort of the holy grail for a while on the forum.  It tested very well.

I briefly considered Royal Purple in the t-case with Redline in the transmission for a leak check but then realized the dye burns of very quickly and it all looks about the same. It is fun to pour it in though.

To avoid further jacking of this thread I will start another gear oil thread with an interesting test that I ran across tonight.

[blackb13se-r]

Tru trac is junk.i have one forsale if anyone thinks they need it.ofcourse selectable is the way to go, i want a shiiter made of gold too! Welded rear works fine for a daily driver

I have one in front. Would love one in back too. To help in raining situations etc. in DD stuff. Price?

[blackdiamond]

My Tru Trac works great. Welded rear would be horrible on a daily driver. Unless your rig has rear locking hubs. I ran a spool in the rear at first and it's sitting on the shelf because I can't afford the tires lol 

I ran a Truetrac in the front of my 85 when I still had stock axles and such. It outperformed an open differential without adding too much stress and causing me to break parts. I distinctly remember having to give it a solid power-brake on Tip-Over-Challenge on Hell's Revenge.  I did all of the hardest trails in Moab outside of Area BFE with it. It helped that Toyota trucks tend to pick up rear tires. It probably wouldn't perform as well in my 4Runner or a Jeep that tend to carry front tires.

[jangelfire]

I have one in front. Would love one in back too. To help in raining situations etc. in DD stuff. Price?

$250 and its yours

[blackdiamond]

$250 and its yours

Is yours a front or rear application? 

[SqWADoosh]

It is fascinating to me the amount of people who are happy with their Truetracs. I wonder if it is people who have never experienced a real locker before?  I hated my Truetrac and advise people against them all the time. For the money you could get so many better options.

[mudmaster]

Grizzly front/Detroit rear for me.

[SqWADoosh]

Grizzly front/Detroit rear for me.

Which is more or less Detroit/Detroit, right? I mean the Grizzly is just the Randy's R&P Detroit is it not?

[mudmaster]

Which is more or less Detroit/Detroit, right? I mean the Grizzly is just the Randy's R&P Detroit is it not?

Exactly!

[SqWADoosh]

I have been reading people's experience with them to say that they are a beefier version though. How long have you run it for?

[jangelfire]

Is yours a front or rear application?

It was in the front of my truck when i bought it and I promptly removed it and went with the good ole miller locker. It will work in any 8" diff though

[mudmaster]

I have been reading people's experience with them to say that they are a beefier version though. How long have you run it for?

Rear (Detroit) has been more than 10 years. The front (Grizzly) has been about 3-4 years.

[:)bestgen4runner]

 
on the true trac I see Jesse spinning only one tire in the rear all the time. No thank you.


on the lock right also. I broke mine in the rear before it ever even went wheeling.

I want arb front and rear. I know they are expensive but it is my preferred locker.


My rear Spartan is great off road but way to aggressive on pavement. Pops like broken axle sound every time I drive it.

[blackdiamond]

It is fascinating to me the amount of people who are happy with their Truetracs. I wonder if it is people who have never experienced a real locker before?  I hated my Truetrac and advise people against them all the time. For the money you could get so many better options.

It isn't the equal of a real locker and I would never want one in the rear diff, but it performed pretty well in the front of my 85. I put it in before I knew about the Longfield axles and didn't want the full stress that you get from a real locker.

[blackdiamond]

on the true trac I see Jesse spinning only one tire in the rear all the time. No thank you.


on the lock right also. I broke mine in the rear before it ever even went wheeling.

I want arb front and rear. I know they are expensive but it is my preferred locker.


My rear Spartan is great off road but way to aggressive on pavement. Pops like broken axle sound every time I drive it.

A Truetrac should work better in the front of a truck that likes to carry rear tires.

You need to drive my 4Runner with the Detroit in the rear. I think the "lunchbox" locker you have in the rear must do things that my Detroit doesn't on the street.

[SqWADoosh]

on the true trac I see Jesse spinning only one tire in the rear all the time. No thank you.


on the lock right also. I broke mine in the rear before it ever even went wheeling.

I want arb front and rear. I know they are expensive but it is my preferred locker.


My rear Spartan is great off road but way to aggressive on pavement. Pops like broken axle sound every time I drive it.

Don't understand why you don't go E-Lockers when you have them readily available as a Toy Tech.   ARBs are great and all, but I continually run across people having them fail on the trail for them. Now I had an e-locker motor go out on me on the trail I'll be the first to admit that. HOWEVER after learning how easy it is to rebuild them (30 minutes or less + 15 minutes to remove the motor from the 3rd) I think they are much more reliable than ARBs. If something goes wrong with your ARB like LiveOak's for example you are looking at a need to remove the entire 3rd member for repair. Even if you can't fix the motor on an e-locker you can easily lock and unlock it with a screwdriver through the motor hole. I'm very happy I went with e-lockers. Besides keep it yota, dude!

[:)bestgen4runner]

I would very much enjoy driving your truck on pavement for comparison with mine at some point.
Might change my mind on what I put in the rear?

As for the ARB air lockers. My truck came with the front high pinion and ARB already installed. Hard to beat zero dollars.
I will admit I did feel for Mr. liveoak's arb challenges. Made me happy I replaced my O-rings prior to Moab trip.
He and I talked about it for a while. We believe it happens due to lack of being used. I Try to hit My switches each lime I fire it up to move it around.

[blackdiamond]

I would very much enjoy driving your truck on pavement for comparison with mine at some point.
Might change my mind on what I put in the rear?

As for the ARB air lockers. My truck came with the front high pinion and ARB already installed. Hard to beat zero dollars.
I will admit I did feel for Mr. liveoak's arb challenges. Made me happy I replaced my O-rings prior to Moab trip.
He and I talked about it for a while. We believe it happens due to lack of being used. I Try to hit My switches each lime I fire it up to move it around.

In a recent discussion with liveoak he indicated that he suspected the compressor to be the issue and was going to replace that before tearing into the differential.

I may be in Auburn on Sunday and Monday and there's a small chance that I might be driving the 4Runner.

[blackdiamond]

I would very much enjoy driving your truck on pavement for comparison with mine at some point.
Might change my mind on what I put in the rear?

I let a guy here in Port Orchard drive my 4Runner a while back that was making his decision for what type of locker he wanted.  He drove my 4Runner so easy on his test drive that I'm not sure he even felt the Detroit in the rear.  I had to coax him to get on it a little bit in a corner to get it to lock up for him.  I'm fairly certain that he will be going with a mechanical

I have never heard my rear Detroit "click" the way people describe lunchbox lockers doing, but it will "bang" pretty loudly on occasion.  I think what's happening is the locker is "locking" from compression without the teeth actually being meshed and when they finally mesh there's a "bang" when it fully locks.  On occasion I can feel the rear end sort of doing a torque steer type of thing, but it's pretty minor.  The only really annoying thing that it will do is on occasion it'll cause a nasty surging when cornering in parking lots at slow speed.  It feels like it locks, jerks forward, unlocks, jerks back, rinse and repeat.  The key is simply to put the clutch in and it stops and with a little awareness can almost completely be avoided.

[:)bestgen4runner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi7ze7149HE

This video is exactly how mine is. Check it out

[Snowtoy]

It is fascinating to me the amount of people who are happy with their Truetracs. I wonder if it is people who have never experienced a real locker before?  I hated my Truetrac and advise people against them all the time. For the money you could get so many better options.

It is likely due to that is all they know, just like the ones that praise an auto over selectable.

on the true trac I see Jesse spinning only one tire in the rear all the time. No thank you.

IME with true-tracs you have to apply the brakes to get them to engage, which is hard to do w/o dual cases or an auto trans.

Don't understand why you don't go E-Lockers when you have them readily available as a Toy Tech.   ARBs are great and all, but I continually run across people having them fail on the trail for them. Now I had an e-locker motor go out on me on the trail I'll be the first to admit that. HOWEVER after learning how easy it is to rebuild them (30 minutes or less + 15 minutes to remove the motor from the 3rd) I think they are much more reliable than ARBs. If something goes wrong with your ARB like LiveOak's for example you are looking at a need to remove the entire 3rd member for repair. Even if you can't fix the motor on an e-locker you can easily lock and unlock it with a screwdriver through the motor hole. I'm very happy I went with e-lockers. Besides keep it yota, dude!

Most of ARB failures to engage are due to installer error or compressor issues, both of which can be avoided with proper installation of airlines, and carrying spare parts and a compressor.  The design changed in '07(compression fitting and new route for internal air line) were a bad ideas by ARB IMO, they weren't needed, and created most of the problems associated with the locker.

[Mudder]

In regard to ARB's, I've heard that you have to run a good gear oil with them and zero water can get in the diff. If it does you need to change the oil ASAP and you should be good to go for a long time. An also to make sure your beather isn't plugged. Not saying problems can't arise, as with anything it can fail but that taking care of it is essential.

[blackdiamond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi7ze7149HE

This video is exactly how mine is. Check it out

I would agree that it's unacceptable for a rear application in a street driven rig.  I'd be interested to know how much noise they make in the front differential as my Aussie Locker is nearly silent and I found a similar video for an Aussie Locker in a rear application.  My Detroit doesn't make any of the clicking, but on a rare occasion will do something similar to the weird clank, I think that's just something mechanical lockers do.

You watched me for a week in Moab on the rocks with mechanical lockers front and rear and you saw that I didn't often get into a steering bind that forced me to back up.  It's just not that big of a deal and they always work.

My turning with mechanical lockers is certainly not as good as an open differential, but it's not as bad as having a manual locker locked because they toggle between being an open differential and a spool.  I am not intending to say my turning is better, only that if someone has only experienced turning with a manual locker engaged it's not the same as what you get with a mechanical locker.

The only times that I wish I had the ability to unlock is for driving incliment weather on the street where having the front locker significantly compromises the steering.  With the front Aussie Locker I am forced to either drive slow (perfectly fine around town) or drive in 2wd if I want to go a little faster.  The locker in the rear was a little interesting on snow in my 85 truck, but it's less of an issue in my 4Runner.  If I was driving it all the time in these conditions I'd probably opt for a manual front locker.

If I had a shorter wheelbase it's possible that the locker could have more of an impact on my steering.  I've been in a CJ-5 with ARBs locked and it went straight no matter how the wheels were turned.

[Mudder]

Blackdiamond, how much does your 4runner weigh? I've been reading into the debate on selectable verses non-selectable.