OME Springs for my '84 Truck - Which Leaf to Remove?

[Plainview]

I bought the OME heavy duty springs but don't need the extra capacity or lift at this time (might in the future).

I've read that I can remove one leaf to get the same lift and ride as the medium springs, but the question is, which leaf?

As you can see in this picture, the front springs have 6 leafs and the rears have 7.



If you count the top leaf (which the bushings go into) as #1 and number them from there as you go down to the shortest leaf (#6 in front and #7 in rear), which one do I take out?

Thanks!

[Dirt Mover]

Pull the short one.

[blackdiamond]

Have you contacted OME to inquire about the design of their springs and see if they can identify the difference in the two packs.  Well made springs are designed as a package so while many people have success with pulling leafs using a trail and error method you have nothing to lose to see what you can learn about the springs first.

[Yopar]

I think the answer can be found a few posts down here:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98143.0

[Plainview]

No information at all came with the springs and now I'm curious what the + and - symbols mean near the ends of the springs...?

Also, I'm attaching a screen capture of the page from their PDF catalog that I downloaded from their website and it doesn't say anything about this.

I e-mailed ARB's tech department but need an answer by the weekend if possible and not sure how long they take to get back.

Yopar - the thread you linked to isn't very definitive.  Maybe it's the third leaf down, or maybe second one from the bottom is what I'm getting from that.  I was hoping someone here had done this or talked to ARB and knew the answer as I'd like to do it once and not have to screw around with it any more.  Appreciate the link though!

[emsvitil]

For the rears:

The difference between the HD CS010R and normal CS009R is the longest leaf without the wrap.
(found a picture once upon a time on the internet)


I have an 86 IFS, but would assume that the fronts would be the same (longest non-wrapped leaf).

[84Flatbed]

The + and - designate front and rear of leaf pack. As far as taking a leaf out your not going to remove any of the leafs that have the clamps so that narrows it down a bit.

What are the part #'s? You probably have an A and B for the front, those would be side specific. And I have to ask why did you get the heavy duty leafs if you don't need the extra load capacity?

[Plainview]

CS009FA & B for front.

CS010R for rear.  These are the heavy load springs.

I bought them because the price difference was minimal and I had read in more than one place that you can remove a leaf and end up with basically the same thing as the light load springs.  Down the road I may very well want the heavier springs when I add a winch, fabbed bumper, dual batteries, and eventually a 4.3 conversion.  Just seemed like a no-brainer to pay less than $10/spring more to have the option down the road if I wanted it.

The one thing I didn't find in the reading I did is which specific leaf to remove.  I didn't think it would be that hard to figure out...    If people are talking about doing it, I figured they'd know how.  Guess I should have done more reading before ordering.. 

[blackdiamond]

In the last few weeks I called Alcan to see about having an add-a-leaf build for my Alcan springs and Bill didn't recommend adding to an old pack. I don't remember exactly how you plan to use your truck, but I can't imagine that the HD OME springs will ride poorly and you will have better capacity and control of your axles.

Most of my wheeling experience is in Moab and firm springs were king for climbing which is why I was exploring increasing the spring rate on my 4Runner springs.

I say run them as is and see how you like the ride. Or wait to contact OME direct.

[H8PVMNT]

I say pull #3 down on both based on experience with trial & error building leaf packs.  I would probably just try them out as is first though.  Might not be too bad...

[Plainview]

Seems like there's a consensus building between this thread and the one Yopar linked to that it's the third leaf (longest non-wrapped) that needs to go.  Hmmm.

Just putting them in and seeing how they work is probably what I'll end up doing if I don't get an answer back from ARB today.  Removing springs isn't that hard to do down the road if I don't like them.

I just realized that the heavy and light springs both give the same amount of lift in the front.  Now I really want to know what the difference is between them.

Thanks for the input everyone, keep it coming.  Not starting this install until tomorrow afternoon.

[blackdiamond]

I just realized that the heavy and light springs both give the same amount of lift in the front.  Now I really want to know what the difference is between them.

It's very likely that the standard and heavy duty springs don't actually have any identical leafs in the packs.  It's reasonable that it's possible to remove a springs out of the heavy duty pack and closely approximate the standard pack, but if it's really a quality springs that is well designed, and I think OME is, then they are designed as a unit.

When I ordered my springs from Alcan back in the 2007 timeframe I talked quite a bit to them about the design process.  They build each springs pack individually one leaf at a time.  They made sure that each leave fit properly with the adjacent ones.  If you were to remove a leaf from the pack it certainly wouldn't destroy the pack, but it likely wouldn't be how it would have been put together if that was the target design.  Alcan uses more thin leafs because it gives them more control of the spring rates.

I would be surprised if you are not happy with the HD ride quality.

[blackdiamond]

p.s. get a synthetic rope for your winch in the future and the change in weight is minimal and it's a lot more safe to operate.

As a disclaimer, I'm an engineer so strongly lean toward the belief that quality products should be used as much as possible in the configuration that they were designed.  There is certainly a lot of smart people on the forum that have had excellent results with putting together their own custom/modified springs packs so please don't take my advice as a negative judgment of doing that way or the people that are choosing to go that route.  I'm more of an off the shelf type of guy that prefers to get a finished product that's exactly what I want.

[emsvitil]

I just realized that the heavy and light springs both give the same amount of lift in the front.  Now I really want to know what the difference is between them.

The load is different

[H8PVMNT]

Yeah OME stuff is pretty impressive ride quality.

[Plainview]

Thanks for your input everyone, especially blackdiamond.  It's always fun to get an engineer involved in the process....

I tend to believe as he does that the spring packs are probably designed as a unit but I now have more information that gives me what I'd say is about 95% confidence that I can remove leaf #3 from each spring pack and get what I want.

I understand that OME is known for their ride quality, but I think most guys install the light load springs.  I've done a lot of tinkering with cars in my life and understand how spring rates affect ride quality and the bottom line is, a stiffer spring just doesn't provide good ride quality compared to a softer spring.  That's the tradeoff to the benefits of a stiffer spring which of course depends on the application.  As blackdiamond mentioned, a stiffer spring on his truck works better for rock crawling.  On the cars I'm used to working on stiffer springs provide better all around handling with less body lean, brake dive, and nose lift/rear squat under acceleration, so in a performance oriented car or a truck being built for rock crawling you trade ride quality for those other benefits.

Thing is, I'm not building a car for autocrossing and rock crawling is not high on my priority list for this truck's capabilities.  I probably should have just bought the light load springs but what's done is done and returning them at this point would be cost prohibitive.

So, here's what I've done:  Called ARB's distribution center in Renton WA and talked to a guy there who said that typically you remove the longest leaf that is not part of the wrap, so on both these springs that would be leaf #3.

I then PM'd a member of another forum who just installed the light load (CS008F & CS009R) on his '85 truck and asked him if he could count the number of leafs in his front spring pack.  He said there are 5 leafs in his pack.

Combine that with what H8PVMNT, emsvitil, & Yopar contributed to this thread and I have high confidence that removing leaf #3 from both front & rear spring packs will give me what I want.

This truck will serve daily driver and weekend material hauling duties for home improvement projects as well as taking me skiing in the winter and to backpacking trailheads and car camping sites in the summer. I do plan to explore some of the 4WD roads around here as well but am not planning on any serious off-roading/crawling though I probably will test the limits of this rig occasionally.  If it's limits are lower than a more dedicated rig, that's okay.

Eventually I'll be loading a dirt bike in the bed and pulling a small camper trailer and that along with the other things I'm planning to add may mean adding those leafs back in would be best but for now I'm going to pull leaf #3 and see how it goes.

Thanks for everyone's contributions!  I'll update my build thread once they're installed.

[blackdiamond]

Sounds like you have the right information to make an informed decision.

I will clarify that the firm springs work better for the high angle climbs in Moab. When the axles hop gravity almost always takes over and you lose all forward momentum. Have minimal suspension travel is the downside but never held me back like my softer springs can now. For rock crawling that isn't all about steep grades having suspension travel really helps with stability and can be the way to go.  I have not figured out how to have it both ways...

[Plainview]

Confidence level now at 100%.  Received the following from ARB USA tech support:

--------------------------------------
Subject:    Re: Website query- Technical/Warranty Question ... OME Springs For '84 Toyota Pickup
Date:    Fri, 1 May 2015 10:20:56 -0700
From:    ARB Tech <[email protected]>
To:    Will ....


Hello Will,
It is the 3rd leaf down on both front and rear that can be removed.
Hope this helps​


--------------------------------------

I hope this helps folks in the future who have this question.  It honestly seems strange to me that no one has posted any definitive info about this before.

[txlonghorn]

Definitely the third leaf down. I also removed the shortest overload since this pack is geared towards weight carrying capacity and not necessarily empty-bed daily-driving like I do. I still retain some weight carrying capacity since I kept the longer of the two overloads.

[lvwilly]

I'm about ready to remove a leaf from the rear of my standard pack. Seems pretty rough and still hasn't settled at all after 6 months.