Topic: Tips on buying?

[Snowtoy]

Ok, thanks. I'll keep an eye out. I definitely want to regear.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think he's putting too much stock in the powder coated bumpers and the fact that it's an 85. We'll see how he feels when he sees the cash in front of him. He says he's had a lot of inquiries, but unless one's a sucker he's not going to get nearly $6k.

Having sold through CL the last 9yrs, you always get a lot of interest if it looks good, it is how many that come with money in hand counts.  With any luck you he will have had buyers show up and leave, lowering his expectations at a quick sale at or near his asking price, softening him up to sort of speak.

Where are you located Snowtoy? I'm gonna have to buy you some beers if I'm ever in your neck of the woods!

I live up near Grass Valley, a couple hundred miles north from your area.  While I wouldn't pass up a free beer, it wouldn't be necessary, helping each other out whether on the trail or on the forum is at the heart of the wheeling community.  Besides if we can help you find a clean running one at a good price, we wont have to answer the "My new rig wont/is acting "______", and how do I fix it" questions so early into your Toyota owning portion of your life.   However, don't worry if you do, the 22r series of engines are about as simple as it gets, when it comes to the basics.

[Snowtoy]

IMO, the '89 Runner in LA is listed about $2k higher than it should be based on the pics and what is wrong with it.  I wouldn't even be able to make an offer since I would be below $2k with my initial one.  Even if every thing was working properly and no chips on the passenger side shell, I wouldn't go over $2500 tops with what the rest of the interior looked like.  With sellers like this, he is likely pricing it at what he needs to get to buy something else he is after, and not pricing it at what he really thinks it is worth.

FWIW, the clutch issue sounds like it is the slave cylinder, cheap fix yourself, but a couple of hundred at a shop.  The A/C could be anything from an electrical issue like a fuse or connector to a seized compressor, and the system would have been R12 from the factory, but could have a DIY R134 conversion kit on it.

[JFW [OP]]

Wow! Really? I was thinking if the Phoenix deal didn't work out I'd offer him 3 cash. The clutch and a/c things worry me for sure, not to mention the rust. Is the slave cylinder replacement hard?

While I IMMENSELY appreciate all that you've done thus far, I by no means expect it and while I appreciate to the utmost all the wisdom you have bestowed I can't leave such deeds unrewarded. It may not be today or tomorrow, but it will be repaid. Don't bother arguing, that's just the way I operate.


I've been a member of a forum for the last three vehicles I've owned and this has been by far the most supportive. A huge thanks to all of you.

[Snowtoy]

A slave cylinder is rather easy to change, you can do it your driveway with the truck on the ground.  The slave cylinder  it is mounted down on the passenger side of the transmission, and held on with 2-3 bolts.  You unbolt it, remove the hydraulic line, reverse procedure, then bleed the clutch and top off the clutch reservoir.  Until it was inspected you wouldn't know for sure, but based on what he told you that would be guess.

I didn't mean to dash your hopes on the '89, but it isn't priced right for what it is.  I know Cash for Clunkers killed off the sub $5k used car market, but that doesn't mean abused used cars are worth more now than they were before C4C.  Even when beat up Toys were commanding premium prices back in '06/'07 it would be priced to high.  This one in Vacaville is priced the way the one in LA should be, and it might be in better condition.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/3989361631.html

While I IMMENSELY appreciate all that you've done thus far, I by no means expect it and while I appreciate to the utmost all the wisdom you have bestowed I can't leave such deeds unrewarded. It may not be today or tomorrow, but it will be repaid. Don't bother arguing, that's just the way I operate.


I've been a member of a forum for the last three vehicles I've owned and this has been by far the most supportive. A huge thanks to all of you.

Compared to the help my friends and I have given out on the trail, smacking a keyboard from my recliner pales in comparison.  Wheeling is basically a pay it forward community, just pass on the info you gain here or help someone stuck  on the trail, and I like most wheelers will call us even.   Of course if I see you post up your new rig and your sporting rims and tires like this,

I will bill you $1 for every key stroke I made.

[JFW [OP]]

Ahhh, ok. Sounds pretty straight forward.

Really? That one in Vacaville looks rough though. The '89 isn't all banged up like that. I agree that it's too high, but I doubt he'd take less than half of what he's asking.

Right on. When I learn how to get someone unstuck, then I'll definitely do that. lol

LMAO...don't have to worry about that. My big wheel days are behind me.

[zembalayan]

JFW,

Another question for you is "how are you conducting your searches?"

If you open up your range （maybe you already have), and you search nationwide, you will get a lot more looks, and get a feel for price comparisons for various models and regions as well.

See below for some search tips and points I made in a past 2011 thread on search methods:

Another good tip is to use google, if you put in site:board.marlincrawler.com and then what you are searching for you'll get a lot of good results. The search function on the forum kind of sucks sometimes.

Learning to search effectively will help you so much with whatever you are trying to learn or build in the future. 

Peterbuilt84 makes a great point.  To amplify some of his advice, you can also modify Google searches such as “site:board.marlincrawler.com” to omit specific information from your search results by using "-keyword" formatting or even omit certain date ranges of postings by using Google's "Advanced Search" option for dates and time.  A lot of the board members are familiar with advanced Google search methods, but I will give you an example to illustrate the point. 

Let’s say you really want to build a unique Toyota 4x4, and your idea starts with obtaining a smog exempt, TRUE first generation 2WD Toyota truck, such as one of those manufactured from 1969 through 1972. 

Well, you could begin an advanced Google search of craigslist.org for all Toyotas for sale with the model years of 1969 through 1972, by typing “Toyota 1969 OR 1970 OR 1971 OR 1972 site:craigslist.org”  By typing “OR” in upper case between keywords, you allow your search to pull all postings that include either OR of the two or more keywords.  Once, you do this search, you will find that your search may turn up ads for Corollas, Landcruisers, Carinas, Starlets, Tercels, and other models that you may want omitted from your results; therefore, you can type “-Corolla -Corona -Carina -Tercel -Starlet -Celica -Landcruiser -Land -Cruiser Toyota 1969 OR 1970 OR 1971 OR 1972 site:craigslist.org” and any keyword which is directly preceded by a minus/“-“ will omit results with those words. 

You may ask why not just search for Toyota Hilux, which you surely can do, but as you will see, a lot of people out there who are advertising such vehicles do not know some of the specialized names and may just advertise the vehicle as a Toyota truck.  Or on the other hand, you may find that some people only use specialized terms in their ads such as “Toyota 4x4 with 2LT for sale” and nowhere in the ad is the term “diesel” used. 

Finally, when you search craigslist you will need to limit your date range of your search by selecting the “Advanced Search” option on the Google search page and choose to search for web posts that are only a month, a week, or a day old.  If you do not limit the date range of your searches, you will also pull a bunch of expired or deleted posts. 

However, when you search for info on building your truck here or on pirate4x4.com for example, you will not want to limit your search date range because, as KneedownNate mentioned, a lot of the more basic questions that you have may have been answered in threads from around 2002. 

I know you're a newb, but the absolute best things you can do is use the search function when you have a question, then when that fails, manually look through the various threads in each section to find the info you need .  I can guarentee you the answers you seek have been answered many times over, and there's rarely an original question on these boards. 

The answers you seek are out there, and board members will respect you more if you've exhausted the available search avenues.  I'm not talking a couple minutes of looking, but hours, if not days.  I'm not picking on you, and there will always be members who'll chime in, but similar questions are frequently asked.  This thread was started over 5 years ago by Kyota (rip) for this very reason:  http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=16818.0

And I will throw you a bone, in good faith that you'll do your own leg work in the future.  As I've said in recents threads of the same nature, I have 4.37 and 33's.  It does fine around town and on reasonably level ground, but throw a little hill in on the highway or freeway and it falls on it's face.

Take KneedownNate’s advice above, you will learn a lot more in general by finding answers yourself through searching rather than asking. 

It’s a bit of an art form when it comes to searching, and some searches are just not easy.  For instance, try searching for a rust free 2nd generation Toyota long bed pick up box as a replacement for a rusty one that you might have on your current truck.  Because the words “long bed” are often used to describe the entire truck rather than just a bed box, you may have to sift through a ton of posts before you find what you want if you find it at all.  Also, there is a question of spelling the word or words "long bed" or "longbed," which causes problems as well, and when it comes to finding what you want, you may have to search for keywords with the idea in mind that internet posters do make errors when they type, and they may disagree with how a term should be spelled or identified.  For example, is it spelled Extra Cab or Xtra Cab or King Cab?  The guy who is writing about it may not know himself.

Because searching can take a ton of time, and a lot of the senior members on these types of boards have spend a ton of time finding what they need, they can get pretty frustrated when new members don't take the time to do what the senior members have done, and instead the new members clutter up the boards with questions that have been asked and answered.  Having said that, I really appreciate veterans such as OOPS who take the time to help the less knowledgeable out, rather than simply exhorting the newb to "SEARCH!!!!" but that's just me.

For better or worse, I don’t ask many questions in forum posts, but I read a ton, and I also consider my searching skills to be pretty decent.  I personally search all over the place, too, including the Marlin board, IH8MUD.com, Pirate4x4.com (as a Red Star member), toyotadiesel.com, toyotaminis.com.

Good luck!

[zembalayan]

Some of that stuff in the latter part of the quoted post above is not relevant, but I pasted it anyway, JFW. I am very eager to see what you get.  You are gonna love it I am sure!!

:-)

[Snowtoy]

Really? That one in Vacaville looks rough though. The '89 isn't all banged up like that. I agree that it's too high, but I doubt he'd take less than half of what he's asking.

It looks rough, but a fender and side marker would cost you about $50-100 depending on buying new/used, and it sounds like everything else runs right.  It wasn't really meant to be an option for you since your after a DD, just more of an example of what the one in LA should be priced at given what is wrong with it.

[JFW [OP]]

I've done a bit of that, but awesome post Zembalyan.

Snowtoy - ahhh, ok. I didn't realize it was that cheap. This one just popped up on CList, in the LA area. Looks like it's more along the price point you're talking about.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/3995246766.html
Is an a/c compressor a cheap replacement too? Doesn't look like the stock steering wheel, wonder if that's an indicator of anything.

[JFW [OP]]

Talked to the guy about it. Sounds pretty good. Only thing that's questionable is that he said the last owner did the engine rebuild himself and that the gage cluster has been rebuilt. Because of the second part, he doesn't really know how many miles are on the truck. Apparently it reads 1600 right now? I'm waiting on a VIN, so we'll see.

[Snowtoy]

Yes, that is what I mean about price range.  The add/pics make sound like it could be a possible candidate, I would take a look at it if I was in the market and in the area.  I would think it would be sold at around $23-2500, depending on what the rest of the interior looks like.  If everything is complete and it runs good, even at $2800 it might be a good deal. 

A DIY rebuild isn't all that difficult with the 22r engine, like everything else with these era trucks Toyota followed the KISS program, that is what has made them so durable.  However given your newness to Toyota trucks, and the need to have a reliable DD, I would also have a dealer mech or shop that repairs Toyotas regularly take a look at it.   

A new A/C comp would be a couple of hundred plus service to the system and refil with R12.  Given the price of R12 and having to buy a new comp, it could be worth the extra costs of converting the system to R134.  You could do the DIY 134 conversion yourself but the one I did never cooled very well.  I ended up swapping out the refrigerant for a product called Maxi-fridge, which is a propane based refrigerant.  It cools just about 90% as well as the R12 did, and about 100% better than running the R134 through the R12 equipment.  A lot of people on line seem to be hesitant of it due to it being propane based, but it has been about 8-9yrs now and I haven't had any issues with leaks.

[JFW [OP]]

I'm not going to look at the one in Phoenix now, so I'll probably go take a look at this red one.

Yeah, it'll definitely be getting inspected by a Toyota dealer before any money changes hands.

Ok, excellent info. I've never heard of Maxi-fridge. I'll have to look into that.

So that odometer thing isn't something to be worried about?

[Snowtoy]

With the previous owner passing the info on to the current owner about the gauge cluster, it doesn't sound like he was trying to hide anything, or pull a fast one.  As long as everything in the cluster works correctly there shouldn't be any concern, changing out non-tachometer gauge cluster for one with a tach, is a pretty common with upgrade within the Toyota community.

[JFW [OP]]

Really, ok. Guess I didn't think about that.

So, was all set to go look at the red one and got a text that they sold it this morning. Of course. Found a white '86 on Craigslist, contacted them, and went to LA. They almost blew me off, then said I could come see it. The pictures they had posted made this thing look cleeean. Got there and it was a heap, and the guy was asking $3500. Ha! Props to whoever took those pictures. He started in with "these trucks are hard to find", whereas I told him "not really, I've found over 50 in the last two months". I told him the best I could do for his truck was $1200(and that was probably generous) and I named off all of the things that warranted my offer. He said he had another offer from someone else, so I said by all means go for it and have a nice day.

There's an '89 in Bakersfield that I'm thinking about looking at. The guy seems cooperative, interior pics he sent me look good. Unfortunately, it won't pass smog. He says it just needs a new cat. Who knows. Needs a new windshield and looks like the seal around it is all chewed up. Needs tags. The shell looked pretty bad and he has since painted it black with rhino liner paint, not sure if I care for that.

And with that, the search continues.

Zembalayan - maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I tried the 1985 or 1986, etc. searching on Google and it didn't work. Pulled up all kinds of crazy $#!t. Idk...lol

[zembalayan]

And with that, the search continues.

Zembalayan - maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I tried the 1985 or 1986, etc. searching on Google and it didn't work. Pulled up all kinds of crazy $#!t. Idk...lol

Make sure you are spelling and spacing everything correctly.  Here is what I put into my google search bar imediately below:

site:craigslist.org 4runner 1984 OR 1985 OR 1986 OR 1987 OR 1988 OR 1989


JFW, without limiting the dates or age of posing within googles advanced search functions, I got a return of way more than 10 pages that included ongoing sales ads.  There were old (June and July) postings still up on CL, which tells everyone that the owner can't sell it for what he's asking. I'd limit my search to postings less than a week old via google advanced search features and start searching daily or every couple of days.  If it's no fun looking for a needle in a haystack with these older trucks and their unrealistic owners, I'd open up your search to include 1996-2002 4Runners.  They are great IMHO, and more plentiful and you'd have more to choose from.  Or, you can trudge on.  If you don't need this thing anytime soon, I'd keep searching and be willing to travel a bit.  Good luck!

[JFW [OP]]

Oh, crap. I had it backwards. lol derp! Thanks for being patient. Oi, that's embarrassing.

Well, I've expanded my search to 85-89. I want the removeable top. This just popped up on Ebay. Guy said he's looking to get $6500, but said it's negotiable since it's a bit high mileage. I'm thinking he's a bit high priced too, since it's a really basic model. Idk.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/California-Original-1987-Toyota-4-Runner-22R-E-4X4-100-Rust-Free-Two-Owner-/400550762914?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item5d42af99a2#ht_16285wt_1161

So what can we do to get the word out to people that their $1000 trucks aren't worth $3500, and so on? lol I mean, it's been all I could do to not straight laugh in few people's faces. I keep it professional though, of course.

[Snowtoy]

I would say he missed his price by about $3k, it isn't even an SR5.  I could see it having that kind of relative value if it was around 100k original miles, and it was a 9.5-10 inside and out, or possibly in another 20yrs when it could be a "survivor" model.

It is pretty clean but nowhere near 45, it could be, but the shifter boots need to be replaced, the rear panels are faded and need refinishing, and there is something off with the door panels, either the map pockets are trashed, after market ones were added.  I think an asking price of $4500, expecting to take between $3500-4k would be about right, even with what C4C did to the market, even with all the beat up ones out there.  People have to realize that just because their stuff is twice as good as beat to hell rigs, it doesn't mean theirs is worth twice as much.

For comparison this is a restored Runner I listed for $4600 back in '06 when Toyota 4x4's were commanding premium prices during the height of the 4x4 hobby.




It was an SR5, w/power windows, sunroof, everything leaked, and looked like new when it was done, as well as a little extra customs, with the safari rack(hidden wires to the lights), custom tailgate piece, etc.  I don't think it  I could ask anymore for it today then I did then, and do it with a straight face.  Maybe I am wrong with the current market place, but given the economy, I can't believe there are that many buyers out there willing to pay price that some of theses sellers are asking, not when you can get 3rd gen Runners for the same price.  While these rigs are collector pieces to some of us, they aren't in general, and likely wont be for sometime to come.

[JFW [OP]]

Yeah, exactly. He did send me some autochecker report that said it was a "45". Not sure how reliable that is.

Dude, why can't you be restoring a 4Runner now?! lol That is nice! These CList clowns would want $8k for that, easy.

Well, my buddy in Phoenix is going to check out that white 85. If he reports back that it's solid and looks as clean as all the pictures he sent me and passes the dealership inspection with no problems, I'm going to give him 5 for it. I figure by the time I find something as clean on the outside and inside as that one that already has an exhaust, alarm, and all the extras(tube doors, half cover, etc.) I'm going to pay that easily. If it doesn't work out for some reason, I'll check this one out when it's available.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4000732731.html
Also overpriced, but who knows what could happen. Nicest SR5 interior I've seen so far, and the power everything is alluring. Some definite cons though(cracked sunroof, etc.) and not real keen on the 35's. At least it's regeared.

P.S. Where'd you get that sweet tailgate panel with all the cupholders?!

[Snowtoy]

I have an '85 2wd that is just about done, just got to repaint/sand/polish it, but that isn't what you are after.  I haven't done a 4x4 in about 6yrs now, the last 4 have been 2wd's, their easier to pick up complete for under $500, than the 4x4's.  My plan is to do another 4x4 next, but need to finish the current 2wd, and get the '37 Plymouth my Dad and I are restoring running and painted by winter, it has been idle the last two years.

If the one in Phoenix is as clean as it looks, and gets a clean bill of health from the dealer, it isn't an outrageous price, it does come with some extras, which I think they always should when asking the the higher end prices, and it is exactly what you have been looking for.  Like I said earlier, it is o.k. to pay a little more when you find the exact thing you want.

The one in SF, isn't a bad list price either with the gear swap, and clean interior.  IMO, 35's are bigger than a beginner should start out with, while they do make the trail easier, I think they strip beginners of the basics when it comes to learning how to pic the right lines through the trail obstacles.  If you ended up with something like that, if it were I, I would drip it down to 33's.  It wouldn't be as beneficial as running 31's, but there is a big enough difference between 33's and 35's that you wouldn't get over confident and end up in a situation above your abilities.  The 33's would work well enough with 5.29's, some members here have run them with 33's and prefer the street performance with the 33's to the 35's.
 

[JFW [OP]]

Wow, is that all on your spare time or what you do for a living? Sounds like fun, regardless.

Yeah, it's what I want. I hope it checks out.

Oh, OK. That's good to know, about the price and all. Yeah, I figured the 35's were too much for me but if they're in decent shape I could sell them and get 33's. Hopefully I won't have to worry about it. Lol

[Snowtoy]

The restorations are just a hobby, that pay for my other hobbies.  I don't think there is enough money to be made trying to do it as a business.  I know if I had to pay for my labor on each one, I would be in the hole each time.

[JFW [OP]]

Ahhh, well that works out nice then. Yeah, you'd have to be doing exotics or something probably for it to really pay off.

[Snowtoy]

Yes, with the collapse of the "funny" money in '08, I think the only types of restorations that you can make a living off today are the pre WWII classics.  Everything else has lost 50-75% of its value since the collapse, and they don't appear to be recovering much at all.  I remember seeing beat up muscle cars going for $25k in '06 and '07, and bolt-off restored ones were going for over $150-200k+, today those same bolt-off restorations can be had at auction for under $50k.  I think I would need to win the lotto to be able to do it in Todays market, that way I wouldn't have to live off the business, and would have the capital necessary to start with everything I needed.

[JFW [OP]]

I see. I guess I'll be talking to you when I'm ready to start my car collection. lol You seem to know a hell of a lot about the market. Yeah, don't hold your breath on the lotto. lol The poor man's folly...

[Snowtoy]

It is even harder to win when you don't play

I only pay attention to the hobby car market as an economic indicator for how healthy the economy is.  I know a lot of the "Economic talking heads" like to look at house and new car sales, but I find those tend to be a more of a necessity, and are more easily to justify the purchase, whereas a toy just to run around the mountains, or cruise around in on the weekend aren't.  When people are buying those types of items it means they are comfortable in their finances, and have money to waste having fun.

[JFW [OP]]

Very true. lol

You may have a point, but I think there are a lot of numbers showing that just prior to the collapse in '08 a lot of people were buying crap they couldn't afford. Charging up a storm. But I'm no expert.

So, I went ahead with the white '85 from Phoenix. Love it! Can't wait to get it regeared though. The drive through the grapevine was interesting. lol Thanks guys for all your help. Now a new battle of epic proportions begins....new mods vs The Wife! 

[Snowtoy]

Nice to hear it turned out to be as clean as it looked in the pics, nice find.

With the wife, the gear change will improve gas mileage and save on service costs since you will extend the life of the clutch, or you could use the old adage, "It is easier to ask for forgiveness, then to ask for permission"

[Cheesemaker]

I take care of some rental properties for some family and friends, and that money gets put aside for parts.  That's how I can afford things for my truck, and various other things.  Every little penny helps. 

[sparkys83yota]

I got my wife hooked on wheeling with me. Now its a lot easier to buy parts and upgrade things because she gets to enjoy them as well.

[JFW [OP]]

Ahhh, I see....these are all very nice methods and dually noted. lol I think I can work the practical side, for sure.