Author Topic: 4 banger vs six (Read 13078 times)

scheid6996 · « **Reply #30 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:02:52 PM »

hey u should do the toy diesel and put a turbo on it

BigMike · « **Reply #31 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:10:53 PM »

Quote from: Pickup_foxrider on Mar 12, 2005, 10:02:42 PM

I have 2 v6s and I love them. They are under powered but they do have more power than the 4's.

Only the 22R-Es. The 3.0 does not have more power then the 2.7 3RZ-FE 4cyl:

3RZ-FE (2.7 4cyl) - 150@4800 / 177@4000 (1995-01? version)
3VZ-E (3.0 6cyl)- 150@4800 / 180@3400 (all versions)

Also the newer versions of the 3RZ that have the DFI quad coil setup with VVT-i (I wish I had that) are rated:
164 hp @ 5200 rpm / 183 lb.-ft. @ 3800 rpm

Take that 3.slow, 14 more HP and 3 ft-lbs more tq at just 400 rpm later from 0.3 liters fewer.

Some cool numbers that show why the 3RZ is the real deal:
22R: 40 HP per liter
22R-E: 47 HP per liter
3VZ-E (3.0): 50 HP per liter
5VZ-E (3.4): 54 HP per liter
22R-TE: 56 HP per liter
3RZ-FE (2.7): 61 HP per liter

Wow, that really puts things into perspective

Quote from: guywithuglyyota on Mar 12, 2005, 10:09:45 PM

have any of you guys heard anything about the LC engineering stroked 2.4's??? Looks like they stroked em to 2.6. Bu the short block price is over 3,000!

The only way to get the 22RE up is with an entirely new EFI/ECU system which would give the user flexability to increase the engine's fuel economy and performance, but at the loss of being smog illeagle (if that applies to you).

Instead of taking an old story into a new book cover, just get a whole new book. The 3RZ is light years ahead of the 22RE. The 22RE is based on an engine from 1981. That gives the 3RZ a 14-year technology head start, and then they made a kick ass engine.

What Im gonna say is gonna throw a wrench into all of this: Just get a 22RE pickup, which is lighter, better mileage, and much less trouble then the 3.0 V6, you will have a kick ass truck that has more power than your old carb truck, and you will be happy I guarantee it.

BigMike

Skinny_Pedal · « **Reply #32 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:15:26 PM »

Quote from: guywithuglyyota on Mar 12, 2005, 10:09:45 PM

have any of you guys heard anything about the LC engineering stroked 2.4's??? Looks like they stroked em to 2.6. Bu the short block price is over 3,000!

complete longblock in a crate in my gagrage....

BigMike · « **Reply #33 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:20:35 PM »

Quote from: skinny_pedal on Mar 13, 2005, 09:15:26 PM

complete longblock in a crate in my gagrage....

So you are refering to your Truck as a crate, then that's cool!! How's that bad boy run !

get it running! Santa is watching

(wasn't that a present from

?)

Skinny_Pedal · « **Reply #34 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:24:16 PM »

yep. i guess if the motor in the bucket goes toast it will go in. i want to save it and put it in a 2wd toy and make a semi pre-runner. i reliezed that the motor was meant to be driven like a rap ape to work so i learned against putting it in a 4x4.
i think u have the best setup and if i can fund that project i would love to do that...

toyhunter · « **Reply #35 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:27:24 PM »

never owned a 4 or 6 cyl. always going with dumb v8s and am tired of it $I\'m Down$

scheid6996 · « **Reply #36 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:27:51 PM »

Tom Leykis said it best "Washington is a state for women, ran by women. Its not just a coincidence that the space needle looks like a giant dildo"

I reciently heard that Eastern Washington was trying to break away from western Washington and form the 51st state. If they do, IM moving!
haha skinny_pedal the guys at my work always listen to him, and we live in WA

scheid6996 · « **Reply #37 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:28:18 PM »

dumb v8's??? Y u say that?

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #38 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:32:48 PM »

Thats an easy one to answer. Too much power period. Unless you build a small block chevy with every piece of smog equipment or you are an idiot that cant build an engine you will break everything. I got silly when I built the 84 and pumped it up a shizzle load. I broke everything constantly. A broke truck is no fun.

scheid6996 · « **Reply #39 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:34:26 PM »

ya i kno wut u mean, 3rd gear just went out today in my truck, thanks to the power of my chev 350, but thats ok time 4 my new t-18 or top loader ford

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #40 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:35:56 PM »

Why not put a sm420 in it? Its got a lower first gear (7.06:1) and it will bolt up to your engine directly.

scheid6996 · « **Reply #41 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:38:40 PM »

that was another one i was thinking of, but i already have a t-18 in my shop

toyhunter · « **Reply #42 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 09:56:59 PM »

Quote from: scheid6996 on Mar 13, 2005, 09:28:18 PM

dumb v8's??? Y u say that?

Because like WT said too much power and all they do is guzzle down the gas even with a light foot. I have had 1=dodge360 and 3=chevy 350's. Wheeling takes its toll on big engines and they need alot more continous maintenece

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #43 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:02:21 PM »

Hey Mike thanks for that detailed response. I sure am glad i asked the question. I expect 3.0 owners to defend there engine, I understand from reading elsewhere it is quite reliable for the AVERAGE user. The head gasket problem was nipped in the bud by toyota. Im sure it serves faithfully under many rock crawler setups. But the 22r platform is proven. I am with WT on the power thing, lots of guys like to chuckle when I tell em im running a 4 banger, but they are always the ones with broken u joints, axle shafts, r&P, and transmissions.

I will be taking a road trip via rental car (thats always fun) on tuesday down to Earp CA to look at the truck. It is a 94, assembled in Fremont CA. 22r-e with 174,000 miles.
The car fax history report turned up a failed smog test in the recent past. The buyer clams it has a new catylitic converter and new muffler. He registered it for AZ so he is having it smogged tomorrow (mon). He was told when he bought the truck that it had the engine overhauled. Whatever that means. Would toyota have this on file if they did the overhaul??? He mentioned having a friend who works for Toyota that got him a deal on the toyota installed air conditioning.

Any tips on what to look for? Some have suggested looking at a spark plug for fouling, etc....

I have always bought old school so any help would be apppreciated!

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #44 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:10:26 PM »

Taking the truck for a drive will tell ya a whole lot about the truck. I always take a good long look under the rigs that im looking at (always for buddies, I buy wrecking yard relics

) Dont be affraid to crawl all over and under the rig, its an investment (of sorts) and if you dont take the time to check it out thuroughly you can get screwed. Look for any dents and dings on the undercarriage as a sign of wheeling/accidents. Pull a couple of the rubber plugs out of the framerails and stick your finger inside the rails to check for mud inside of it. Thats a sure sign of wheeling (ask me how I know) Check under the dash for rat's nests of badly done wiring. If it holds fluid check it for leaks. That will keep ya busy for awhile.

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #45 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:19:10 PM »

That frame rail thing is a good idea! You have been watching CSI havent you??? Thats the problem with a unknown truck "Never left the pavement....4wd barely used.."
Then you find the gear oil is sludged because the guy never thought to service the 4wd parts since he never used them! He says its very very clean so we will see what that means.

BigMike · « **Reply #46 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:21:21 PM »

Just look around it and try to "rate" the modifications done to it. If someone installed some lights, check the wiring really quick. You can learn alot about someone by the way they install stuff, and that can relate to how much TLC went into the truck to maintain and upkeep it.

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #47 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:24:29 PM »

Funny, but every toy I buy thats the first thing I do, I wash all the crap out of the frame so it doesnt continue to rot it from the inside out.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #48 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:29:21 PM »

Hey WT, dig the new avatar! And you wouldn't wanna look at the spaghetti explosion under my dash. I'm slowly learnin to buy different colors of wire, plus the guy I bought the truck from was an electrition and jacked up all kids of stuff. Every time I have any kind of electrical problem I find another one of his "fixes" and hafta do it again the right way.

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #49 on:** Mar 13, 2005, 10:32:29 PM »

I never even thought of it. Rust is outlawed out here in the desert. My 81 had a small area near the drivers footwell, a quarter could have covered it up.
The truck im going to look at is bone stock, which to me is a good sign. The guys also has a sequia and a tundra so I think this truck was in good hands.

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #50 on:** Mar 14, 2005, 12:23:18 AM »

Quote from: WHITE_TRASH on Mar 13, 2005, 10:10:26 PM

Taking the truck for a drive will tell ya a whole lot about the truck. I always take a good long look under the rigs that im looking at (always for buddies, I buy wrecking yard relics ) Dont be affraid to crawl all over and under the rig, its an investment (of sorts) and if you dont take the time to check it out thuroughly you can get screwed. Look for any dents and dings on the undercarriage as a sign of wheeling/accidents. Pull a couple of the rubber plugs out of the framerails and stick your finger inside the rails to check for mud inside of it. Thats a sure sign of wheeling (ask me how I know) Check under the dash for rat's nests of badly done wiring. If it holds fluid check it for leaks. That will keep ya busy for awhile.

If they act touchy while lookin at their truck, walk away. I had a guy get pissy when I started lookin underneath his truck, checked the VIN on carfax and found out it was totalled, and deemed undrivable because it had a cracked frame. no wonder he was touchy

Also, my

on the engines, I think if you treat it well, you would be happy with the 3.0, but I have to admit, knowing what I know now, I would probably go with the 22re. It has broken down rarely, and the power preformance is decent, I've got 5.29s and 37"s and it drives it fine, have some buddies with 3.0s thast are happy with them as well. However, as previously mentioned, they are a PITA to work on (ask me how I know

) and arent as reliable as the 22re

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #51 on:** Mar 14, 2005, 12:55:48 AM »

Good advice, man good thing you took a gander, cracked frame is definately bad. Someday I will do some sort of engine swap. I am all about keeping things simple though, and I dont think it gets much smore simple than the 22re. Anyone have any experience with a stroked 22r???

BCB · « **Reply #52 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 06:22:37 AM »

alright I just ran across this topic and disagree with a few of you about the v6 and the 4. between me and my brother we have the 22re the 2.7 the 3.0 and I have the 4.7. the 22re reliable no power what so ever 2.7 good power better gas mileage 3.0 a whole bunch more power than the 22re cant say much less reliable because I have never had any problems with mine or my buddies that have them. If I was to choose I would of course get the 2.7 then 3.0 because it definantley has a noticeable differance in power over the 22re. but dont get me wrong we beat the 22re. and all that said 4.7 well to good to be in this subject

shad · « **Reply #53 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 07:44:55 AM »

Why not just drop a 5 or 7MGE in it?

There's a pretty good write up on 4x4wire on doing one.

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #54 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 08:26:32 AM »

sounds like a wiring harness nightmare. Older toyota engine in a new pickup....I would love to but for the sake of simplicity I would rather stick to the newer engines. I would definately do that swap in say, an 85 supra to 85 pickup. In CA the donor engine cannot be from a vehicle that is older than the truck its going into

i think I wrote that right

BigMike · « **Reply #55 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 09:17:03 AM »

Quote from: BigMike on Mar 13, 2005, 09:10:53 PM

Just get a 22RE pickup, which is lighter, better mileage, and much less trouble then the 3.0 V6, you will have a kick ass truck that has more power than your old carb truck, and you will be happy I guarantee it.

JUS DO IT

Shoyrtt · « **Reply #56 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 11:58:15 AM »

I'm still pushing the 1st gen 4 Runner idea (I know I'm biased

). Here is an 85 in Cali:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338194

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #57 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 08:19:22 PM »

Quote from: guywithuglyyota on Mar 15, 2005, 08:26:32 AM

In CA the donor engine cannot be from a vehicle that is older than the truck its going into i think I wrote that right

UH OH!! I did that

h well, got another year and a half before smog, and I hope to have the old engine rebuilt before then, If I even still live here

hopin to move up to Reno in the near future

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #58 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 10:07:04 PM »

You know Im sure there are ways around it. Like maybe not saying a word about whats under the hood. I just remember reading that in the rules for conversions and such. They have been getting more and more strict up in Sac with the emission laws, Second only to Japan in emission regulations I believe. Atleast we dont have to throw our cars away at 30,000 Kilometers!!!

Trailtoy1993 · « **Reply #59 on:** Mar 15, 2005, 11:26:16 PM »

I have the 3.slow in my truck and wish everytime I take it off road that I had the 4cyl. NO TORQUE! stalls over obstacles and will not just chug along like the 22re will. I was in the sand and a 4cyl went by me in 4 hi up a hill just chugging along, meanwhile I had to be in 4 lo just to make it through the frigging sand!!!! Get the 4cyl!!!!!!!!!!

guywithuglyyota [OP]

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