Shocks

[Willy Mammoth]

 How do you figure out the proper shock length? What is the best position or angle to mount the rear shocks and why?

[Hyena]

For dampening, the best position would be straight up and down.  But you can't always get the flex you want without cutting into the bed.  I would just buy the biggest shocks i could afford and then make them fit.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Ranch 5012's if your cheap or 9012's if ya want a little better ride.  Ive ran both and I like the 9012's more for the road ride.  I always put my rear shocks in the /\ setup and I have a bit of body roll but that doesnt stop me from nascaring it down the road.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Oh yea, to measure what you'll need you can get a decent idea by cycling the suspension on a ramp or whatever is handy to get a front and a rear tire high enough to get anothe rtire off the ground.  The problem is with you having brand new springs the measurement will be off if you do it now.  Id build some simple mounts for now and use a decent travel shock and once the springs have broken in good then do your measureing.

[Willy Mammoth]

Tanks guys, Im off to buy shocks!

[WHITE_TRASH]

Keep in mind that the shocks Im recomending are 34" extended so that leaves a lot of body when they are compressed!  just under 20" actually.

[Willy Mammoth]

Yea I think the front will need to be 24" mid travel and the rear will be 16" mid travel. Can I put the rear in like \\ so the rear doesn't twist up on full extension?

[WHITE_TRASH]

Huh?  Im lost on the \\ setup. 

[MiniSimp]

Supposed to be like this _///--\\\--///--\\\_ 

[wood]

I have a shocking question. What is the real advantage (if any) to running a pressurized shock like the Bilstein 5125 that marlin sells as opposed to a non pressurized shock?

[Willy Mammoth]

Huh? Im lost on the \\ setup.

Both leaning back

[dirtbag]

ohhhhh, he means like

\\
O

[Willy Mammoth]

8)

[Willy Mammoth]

Well here is a picture of the willy flexing.

[WHITE_TRASH]

I would lean them forward if anything.  By leaning them beck you effectively make them act like a shorter shock beings the shackles are in the rear.  Id mount them to the front of the rear housing leaning both forward and /\ a bit.  That will make a shorter shock act very long.  And with the shocks going forward they will help combat axle wrap a bit as well.

[Hyena]

I like my 5012's a lot.  I max them out in the front though.  I put my rear shock  like /\ and mounted them on the front of the rear housing.  I wouldn't do it again becasue one of them is smashed from a rock.  I would mount them ontop of the housing out of harms way.

[wood]

I have a shocking question. What is the real advantage (if any) to running a pressurized shock like the Bilstein 5125 that marlin sells as opposed to a non pressurized shock?

Anybody??

[WHITE_TRASH]

If you are going to crawl with your truck and not do any high speed jumping type activities then there isnt enough advantage to speak of.  The gas pressure keeps the oil foaming to a bare minimum.

And of course if you mount the shocks down low and directly in front of the housing you will destroy them offroad.  But Id have to imagine Mr Willy is much smarter than that.

[Willy Mammoth]

If you are going to crawl with your truck and not do any high speed jumping type activities then there isnt enough advantage to speak of.  The gas pressure keeps the oil foaming to a bare minimum.

And of course if you mount the shocks down low and directly in front of the housing you will destroy them offroad. But Id have to imagine Mr Willy is much smarter than that.

Thanks for the vote of confidance.

I would lean them forward if anything. By leaning them beck you effectively make them act like a shorter shock beings the shackles are in the rear. Id mount them to the front of the rear housing leaning both forward and /\ a bit. That will make a shorter shock act very long. And with the shocks going forward they will help combat axle wrap a bit as well.

What is the advantage of this \/ over this //  Which one goes / and \. Just trying to get a feel of what works and what don't before I go there.

Thanks for your input.


P.S. What do you think of 24" of flex on an 89" wheelbase?

[WHITE_TRASH]

Ok, I had a rather sizable post about how/why shocks react to different mounting methods but this mot^((&fu#&$# forum ate it!!! 

Heres the cliffnotes:

Mounting the shocks directly in the line of motion of the axles travel is a 1:1 ration of axle vs. shock piston travel.  Therefore that mounting setup is the most effecient thus stiff.

Mounting them in the direct opposite direction torwards the front will give them about a 1:4ish ratio.  It doesnt change the ratio side to side (side hill stability) just in the travel department.

Mounting them in a /\ arrangment will give you about a 1:3 ratio but it sacrifices some more side hill stability.

Mounting them in both a /\ and tipped away from the shackles will give the utmost in available travel from a short shock and gives a nicer ride on the road.

These ratio's are all for a given shock rate.  You can fudge the #'s by using a stiffly valved shock and pretty much laying the shocks on their  sides.


Oh yea, 24" isnt too bad at all, you shoudl be rather happy.  Just remember controlled whell travel will give you a big confidence boost offroad when the trail gets rather non existant.  Sure you can put spools in a stock yj and drive through some amazing boulder fields but do ya really think the driver would be enjoying themself?

[Willy Mammoth]

Ok here is the plan. I will put both leaning forward and in at the top so they will look like this.

[Hyena]

Your jeep will prolly flex better when there is more weight added during trips.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Dang will you have done some strange/amazing stuff on that build but I think having shocks painted (poorly I might ad) on the OUTSIDE of your rig is a first even for me.



























I think it will work out just fine like that, plus it will have an added benefit of helping to combat axlewrap too.  Id think you probobly already have it figured out as to the mounts but Ill give ya my 2 pennies anyway.   If have room to do it in Id use 2x2x1/4" tubing welded on top of the frame with a 5x 5/8" bolt throught the whole works.  Ive ripped a lot of steel apart when I mount the typical shock bolt on a single plane of1/4?plate.  It doesnt have the integrity to withstand the constant cycling and it'll snap off.

[Hyena]

The shocks will have to be longer becasue they are mounted farther out.  It will help out with body roll and street driving a lot.  Thats what the new F150's use now.

[rvazquez]

It's kind of funny that after much thought and consideration, you decided to go with shocks in the same position as stock.

Well, i guess I thought it was funny, maybe no one else will.

[To The Floor]

they aren't going to be stock.  he is going to mount them angled forward also.  i know the stocks mount like / \ but his are tilting forward, that is better than stock because it will fight axle wrap and reduce body roll.  i believe this is also the best way to do it in the flex department also

[Hyena]

but they will still have to be longer then if they were inside the springs.

[ntsqd]

I would lean them forward if anything. By leaning them beck you effectively make them act like a shorter shock beings the shackles are in the rear. Id mount them to the front of the rear housing leaning both forward and /\ a bit. That will make a shorter shock act very long.

Hum, not sure I agree with this. Mounted at an angle in any plane will make them act like a longer stroke than they are and reduce the damping's effectiveness. By leaning them back you start out with a lot of leverage against them and, in compression, work towards 1:1 b/c as the spring flattens it moves the axle housing back (assuming we're not talking about some funky front shackle jeep thingy). Viola! Progressive damping. Small hits get absorbed and big hits get better damping.

[WHITE_TRASH]

By leaning the shocks in the same direction as the shackles they are in a 1:1 ratio.  That is not a progressive ratio, with them leaned AWAY from the shackles they become progressive.  By playing with the upper mounting location of the shocks you could effectively make them act as a bypass shock.  But that would take a lot more math than I care to get into.

[ntsqd]

By leaning the shocks in the same direction as the shackles they are in a 1:1 ratio. That is not a progressive ratio, with them leaned AWAY from the shackles they become progressive. By playing with the upper mounting location of the shocks you could effectively make them act as a bypass shock. But that would take a lot more math than I care to get into.

Hum, so you are defining "progressive" as losing damping rate at the same rate that you are losing spring rate?

Sorry, don't buy it. Shackle angle plays a role in a lot of things, damper progression or digression is not one of them. I define "Progressive" as an increase in effective dampening rate from full droop to full bump. If the damper starts out leaned over and as the suspension compresses they become more verticle the effective damping rate increases. No way can mounting geometry ever make a damper position sensitive to the degree that a by-pass is. By doing it my way you get a mild increase near full bump, but nothing close to the sort of stiff damping/bumpstop effect that is possible with a by-pass damper.