Author Topic: add stud or ARP's (Read 9655 times)

superyota · « **on:** Mar 24, 2011, 03:18:16 PM »

I'm currently running 37x12.50 MTR's, 5.29's, hydro assist and a locked front and spooled rear. I'm still running factory knuckle studs and hub studs. I want to upgrade them before they break, but can't decide between adding a 5th knuckle stud, or just swap them out for ARP's. also on the hubs, bobby long sells a hub dowl kit that adds 4 more dowls to each hub, or front range sells ARP's to replace the factory studs. anyone have any first hand experience with just adding the ARP's? I really don't want to be pulling everything apart again just to add a few studs, but if it'll be stronger than arp's then i guess that's what i'll do. I'm always retorqueing all my studs during and after every trip. Thanks.

jrock · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 24, 2011, 05:07:42 PM »

More studs, disperse the force.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 24, 2011, 05:31:12 PM »

I have arp hub studs, and knuckle studs. I have broken 3 arp studs, cant say anything about stock, because I never ran em since I upgraded to bigger tires. I would do bobbys dowel mod over the hub studs, more studs is better than stronger ones IMO. Also do the 5th stud, its easy and well worth the piece of mind, if I had done it to my marlin arms, not just my tg ones, maybe this wouldnt have happened

OOPS · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 24, 2011, 10:01:35 PM »

Quote from: Sparkplug on Mar 24, 2011, 05:31:12 PM

I have arp hub studs, and knuckle studs. I have broken 3 arp studs, cant say anything about stock, because I never ran em since I upgraded to bigger tires. I would do bobbys dowel mod over the hub studs, more studs is better than stronger ones IMO. Also do the 5th stud, its easy and well worth the piece of mind, if I had done it to my marlin arms, not just my tg ones, maybe this wouldnt have happened

If that is a Marlin arm it can be fixed, you press out the old pin and install a new one. I broke one on my six-hole Marlin arm and was going to do it but I upgraded to the 25 mm instead.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 24, 2011, 10:08:01 PM »

yes i know, i called marlin monday, fianlly got answer that i needed to ship my arm to them or order new pins yesterday, ordered yesterday, supposed to be here today, they arent here, truck still stuck in driveway, end o rant

Arps are nice, spendy but nice, 5th stud is nice, and if you measure absolutely perfect you can do a 5/8 stud instead of a 1/2 inch stud

dirtchicken · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 02:52:43 AM »

My steering arm studs were always loose after a few trips. I'm going to order some ARPs from FROR. This should solve my problems. As far as adding extra pins to the hub I'm not too sure on it. The pins are only case hardened, only to locate the hub. Not designed to see sheering forces. If they were they'd be through hardened.

KyTrash · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 07:11:17 AM »

I think that the ARPs are a big improvement over stock. I was thinking about a 5th stud and extra dowels pins, :shudder:BECAUSE I HATE BREAKING MY

!!!! OOPs are you using extra dowel pins on your hubs?

superyota · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 07:41:13 AM »

sparkplug, just curious what your torqueing your studs to, and if you check them. also what size tire are you running, with or without assist? thanks

superyota · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 07:44:02 AM »

i'm pretty sure i'm set on going with the arp's for the hub's vs. adding bobby's dowls. i'm just waiting to get a bit more feedback with the arp's vs. 5th stud vs. both on the knuckles.

SloCrawler · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 10:58:42 AM »

Quote from: superyota on Mar 25, 2011, 07:41:13 AM

sparkplug, just curious what your torqueing your studs to, and if you check them. also what size tire are you running, with or without assist? thanks

x2 i have some waiting to bre installed

86rustbucket · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 11:57:00 AM »

im doing the 6th stud upgrade from 4x4labs and ARP's

superyota · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 12:33:36 PM »

i've heard different sides to running 4xlabs 6 stud. have you run this set up yet? i'm curious as to how well welding to the cast holds up.

OOPS · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 06:45:50 PM »

Quote from: KyTrash on Mar 25, 2011, 07:11:17 AM

OOPs are you using extra dowel pins on your hubs?

Nope, just ARP studs from FROR. I do not know why, but I had problems with the ARP knuckle studs from TG. No matter what I did the cone washers were seizeing up on the stud and I would have to remove the stud to get it out. It did not happen on the studs from FROR. Yes I was using anti-seize on them.

Even with the six stud knuckles I check the nuts to make sure they are tight.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 06:56:00 PM »

Quote from: superyota on Mar 25, 2011, 07:41:13 AM

sparkplug, just curious what your torqueing your studs to, and if you check them. also what size tire are you running, with or without assist? thanks

I torque to 85 lbs, tad over stock, only cause arp, I check them ALL THE TIME, SOMETIMES IN MIDDLE OF WHEELING, i run 36 tsl radials and hydro assist with the stock pump. I have horrible issues with toy steering, altho I did 5th stud to my ex cab, and have not had a issue since, they maintain toruqe easily 2x as long now, dunno if it the brand arms or the 5th stud

and i would have to say the 4x4 labs looks a tad sketch to me, that alot of welding on the knuckle, with normal 5th stud the only welding is tacks to hold the stud in place, interesting to see how it performs

pumkin toy · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 07:01:38 PM »

I used to break stock hub studs all the time on 37's. i upgraded to ARP studs from FROR at the same time i put 40's on my rig. I wheeled all last summer and the studs never came loose or broke. i would recommend them for sure!

OOPS · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 25, 2011, 08:08:05 PM »

If you are running hydro assist or full hydro your ram should be set as the stop for your steering. If you are using the stock stops and your ram still has travel in it it is real hard on the knuckle studs. The ram wants to keep going after the knuckles have stopped. If you ram has to much travel set it up with stops. My full hydro ram has six inches of throw which is way to much. I have internal stops made from Delrin that are a little thicker then one inch, and I have removed the adjusting bolts from the knuckles.

KyTrash · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 26, 2011, 07:59:08 AM »

Thanks Oops.

Volcom · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 28, 2011, 12:52:50 PM »

I run both ARP's and 5th studs. I just added the 5th stud a month ago and my steering is perfect after a week of wheeling in Moab. I checked the knuckle studs after every trip and none of them have moved. Over the last 4 years, I'd check after every wheeling trip and I'd always have at least one loose. The 5th studs have helped out BIG time.

I bought my 5th stud kit from Longfield.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 28, 2011, 08:33:14 PM »

For what its worth, I run only the ARP's, but I also check to make sure that they are torqued before each run. Most of the time they are fine. Its been about 6 years on them. Since the middle of 2005.

vincesyota · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 28, 2011, 08:39:15 PM »

Hey guys what are ARP studs are they stronger material, and where do you get them?

OOPS · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 28, 2011, 09:13:46 PM »

Quote from: vincesyota on Mar 28, 2011, 08:39:15 PM

Hey guys what are ARP studs are they stronger material, and where do you get them?

A lot stronger. Two places I know of to get them.

FROR ---- http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/

or
Trail Gear --- http://www.trail-gear.com/

I perfer the ones from FROR.

superyota · « **Reply #21 on:** Apr 25, 2011, 04:01:25 PM »

alright, money is tight right now as far as spending on my toys goes. I have the option to do either the arp hub studs, or arm knuckle studs first. which do you think I should do first? One or the other is going to have to wait a month or so. In the meantime, it's going to have to make a hammers trip. I leaning more towards doing the hub studs first. I think the knuckle studs will be ok for now as long as i keep an eye on them and keep them torqued. I also make sure I never hit my steering bump stops. let me know what you guys think.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #22 on:** Apr 25, 2011, 04:07:10 PM »

Knuckle studs

GloNDark · « **Reply #23 on:** Apr 25, 2011, 04:19:15 PM »

Do both the knuckle studs and 5th stud. That's you're biggest weak point. When some more $$$ comes along then do the hub studs.

You can keep checking your knuckle studs but they are probably original yota parts, 20 plus years old, been re-torqued 100 times, and sooner or later they are going to fail. And then hammers would be a crappy place to lose a steering arm.

I bought the ARP's and while it was torn down made the 5th "Stud" and I made it out of scrap pieces I had in the garage. With the ARP's and my 5th stud setup I have yet to break one, or have one loosen up.

But then again........I don't wheel all that hard.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #24 on:** Apr 25, 2011, 04:25:53 PM »

The real question is if the ARP studs are enough stonger to offset the addition of another stock stud. Does FROR make any claims on the additional strength, I have not looked?

Example:

Assume a stock stud will handle 10 lbs of force. Four studs would handle 40 lbs of force. If you add an additional stud you'd be able to handle 50 lbs of force.

For the ARP studs to be better they would need to be stronger than 50 lbs of force. This would require each ARP stud to hanlde 12-1/2 lbs of force.

This is an increase in strength of 25% per stud. Do you believe that the ARP studs are at least 25% stronger than the stock ones?

I don't know, but I choose to run the ARP studs because they were an easy upgrade and I don't like "backyard" mods to my rig.

Note: This is a very simple comparison and I'm sure there are more forces acting on the studs than simple shear, but as long as the ARP studs are strong by 25% in each area you should good. Distribution of the load over an additional stud could result in less rotational forces on the studs and this could be of significant benefit.

superyota · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 26, 2011, 08:04:26 AM »

great info guys. i guess i'll witht he knuckle studs first. going to order them up through FROR today.

Volcom · « **Reply #26 on:** Apr 26, 2011, 11:53:23 AM »

Quote from: superyota on Apr 26, 2011, 08:04:26 AM

great info guys. i guess i'll witht he knuckle studs first. going to order them up through FROR today.

You might think about ordering all new knuckle hardware (cone washers and nuts) from Marlin as well. I've got ARP studs but they were still coming loose. I bought all new hardware and no issues throughout the week I was in Moab.

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