Topic: what happens when you break a knuckle?

[snowplow]

So if you happen to break a knuckle, how in the hell do you get that baby home? Other than having a spare knuckle, Im stumped.

[snowplow [OP]]

Also, what upgrade options are out there? Does the bearing grenade or the knuckle crack apart? I am trying to figure out if they brake from a steering arm stud problem or if they go for another reason?

[OOPS]

Never broke a knuckle but I do carry two in the equipment box on my trailer. I have broken steering studs, trunnion bearings and Birfields. These were all fixed on the trail where I broke. If you break a birfield or trunnion bearings, fix ASAP because it can and has locked up steering. If you blow a Birfield and do not have a spare (Just because you are running Longfields does not mean they will not break) pull it out, clean it out, shove a rag or paper towel in the hole, this will slow the diff lube from leaking out. Run in 2-wheel drive as much as possible (that is when a twin-stick comes in hand, low gears 2-wheel drive.

I came out of 4-dice in 1-wheel drive once, I blew a rear axle and a bit later I blew both sides of a Birfield eliminator kit, front R&P and a hub. with a little strapping and winching I made it out.

[OOPS]

Never broke a knuckle but I do carry two in the equipment box on my trailer. I have broken steering studs, trunnion bearings and Birfields. These were all fixed on the trail where I broke. If you break a birfield or trunnion bearings, fix ASAP because it can and has locked up steering. If you blow a Birfield and do not have a spare (Just because you are running Longfields does not mean they will not break) pull it out, clean it out, shove a rag or paper towel in the hole, this will slow the diff lube from leaking out. Run in 2-wheel drive as much as possible (that is when a twin-stick comes in hand, low gears 2-wheel drive.

I came out of 4-dice in 1-wheel drive once, I blew a rear axle and a bit later I blew both sides of a Birfield eliminator kit, front R&P and a hub. with a little strapping and winching I made it out.

P.S. Breaking a trunnion bearing can take out a Birfield. I took out a Long that way.

[snowplow [OP]]

Thanks for the info. Well here is the whole story.....

I was installing FROR ARP knuckle studs. First side when great, second side not so much. Original studs were in REALLY tight and I used a 'bolt out' in the impact gun to pull the studs. Came right out no prob. I think two of them must have galled or screwed up the knuckle threads because when installing the studs the threads were really rough. All the studs were started by hand and followed up by double nutting. When the two wouldnt do well with hand threading I pulled them back out and thread chased them. Even still after all that I installed them and those two wouldn't tighten up. I haven't stripped them yet but they are not tightening up and I think they are pulling out. I am trying to figure out what to do next. Damn the tq on those arp studs are soooo high (130#).

Run em till I break em (driver side)
Stock replacement
6 shooters
6 shooters with trunnion elims

This makes me sad 

[santa cruz crawler]

Fix it and be done with it when you buy 6 shooters!!
A good way to see what's up w the threads is to have
them sand blasted , I don't know if you are around a
auto machine shop but it shouldn't cost much
good luck

[snowplow [OP]]

Thanks man. Is there any other options other than 6 shooters? There is the 5th stud mod but that doesn't really help me. You cant beat the price of the 6 shooters considering just the 8 arp studs were 100 bucks and 1/3 the cost of the 6 shooters and arms.

[junya92toy]

Thanks for the info. Well here is the whole story.....

I was installing FROR ARP knuckle studs. First side when great, second side not so much. Original studs were in REALLY tight and I used a 'bolt out' in the impact gun to pull the studs. Came right out no prob. I think two of them must have galled or screwed up the knuckle threads because when installing the studs the threads were really rough. All the studs were started by hand and followed up by double nutting. When the two wouldnt do well with hand threading I pulled them back out and thread chased them. Even still after all that I installed them and those two wouldn't tighten up. I haven't stripped them yet but they are not tightening up and I think they are pulling out. I am trying to figure out what to do next. Damn the tq on those arp studs are soooo high (130#).

Run em till I break em (driver side)
Stock replacement
6 shooters
6 shooters with trunnion elims

This makes me sad 

put a helicoil in there, it will be stronger then ever.

[Cheesemaker]

I've never had any luck with helicoils.  It is just a bandaid in my opinion.
I've heard of guys having issues with the six shooter knuckles just like the regular knuckles.  I've also seen pictures of the six shooter arms, and the taper isn't exact to the conical washers.  So, they aren't seating like they should.   
I've been told that the replacement knuckles that TG sells are a very good replacement, for new knuckles.  Just needs some grinding to get everything to line up perfect.  I've been looking for a set of knuckles, cause the threads in mine are looking pretty rusty.  Which is very common.  I've been seriously thinking about getting a set from them, as much as it pains me to say that.  Cause you can't get new ones anymore.  Well, you could from Toyota, but from what Dave told me, ones for a FJ80 are like $350 each.   

[OOPS]

If you live around the Roseville, CA area I will give you a couple of stock knuckles. Come pick them up.

You do not have to tighten the studs into the knuckles to 130 ft lbs, just the nuts when you torque the  steering arms.

[snowplow [OP]]

Thanks for the offer, but I am too far away. I just snugged the studs into the knuckle with a double nut like Brian E says to. Then I tightened the nuts to 130#. 6 out of 8 anyway 

Thats good to hear about the 6 shooters.

So I am trying to make sense of this, there are:
 
Steering stud failures
Knuckle cracking in half
Trunnion bearing failures

Do all of these stem from the same thing? I am trying to figure out how all these happen. Or are they just one of those things that when gets gnarly stuff explodes 

[<MIKE>]

Dang i've never seen or heard of a knuckle breaking. your trunnions can make your birfs break. and not checking your studs can make them sheer. as well as extreme stress or age. didn't get to read the whole thread but ARP studs are supposed to be hardened to like 200k psi so i am told they are the best studs to roll with. but they are like $10 a stud. well worth it if you ask me. you can carry extra studs, birfs, and trunnions and just fix on the trail. if you grenade a knuckle then hats off to ya for goin that hard man. get some pics for sho!!!!

[Slolyfe]

Here are broken studs which then caused the knuckle to start to crack. All the bearings were destroyed so we wheeled it out without them. All courtesy of Jud.

[<MIKE>]

damn was that from broken knuckle studs?

[<MIKE>]

nm i see where the crack started

[snowplow [OP]]

Good info. I was trying to figure out if I just remove/replace or to upgrade to something better while I'm at it. So lets have a vote:

1. Remove/Replace
2. Get 6 Shooters with arms and have my one good knuckle for a spare (this would allow me to upgrade to the trunnion elim later too)

For the record I wouldn't be buying from TG if there was something comparable on the market. Also you cant beat that guarantee. 

[<MIKE>]

i vote replacement knuckles with ARP studs

[Slolyfe]

i vote replacement knuckles with ARP studs

X2

Thats what I've been running for two years, with hydro-assist. So far so good, just re-torque them a couple times a day.

[Steve_925]

Here are broken studs which then caused the knuckle to start to crack. All the bearings were destroyed so we wheeled it out without them. All courtesy of Jud.

thats from him breaking all his studs, then he c clamped the steering arm on(without the tierod) and drove it a mile on fordyce.
the stud is what fails and/or/then the threads in the knuckle can oval or loosen. i have broken 2 studs on each knuckle ate the same time and the other 4 hole ovaled out and i lost everything. it was my first time on the con and i didnt know i had to check the studs often

i ran 40's, full hydro, and 3" wheel spacers, and i wheeled it hard. i just had stock knuckles with arp studs. the thing is to check them all the time, i kept a 1/2" ratchet with a 17mm socket in my glove box and checked them at least once a day on the trail.

[Cheesemaker]

Good info. I was trying to figure out if I just remove/replace or to upgrade to something better while I'm at it. So lets have a vote:

1. Remove/Replace
2. Get 6 Shooters with arms and have my one good knuckle for a spare (this would allow me to upgrade to the trunnion elim later too)

For the record I wouldn't be buying from TG if there was something comparable on the market. Also you cant beat that guarantee. 

There is nobody BUT TG that has replacement knuckles.  That is one of those things that you either trust used 30 year old questionable knuckles, or you buy from TG.  You could try getting them from Toyota, but you could buy an entire used rig for what they might want for them. 

[THK Matt]

There is nobody BUT TG that has replacement knuckles.  That is one of those things that you either trust used 30 year old questionable knuckles, or you buy from TG.  You could try getting them from Toyota, but you could buy an entire used rig for what they might want for them. 

Ive got an extra set of early style knuckles on the shelf in the garage.

[santa cruz crawler]

I've got 2 also located in Santa Cruz ca
free!!!

[904x4yota]

 If any body that is giving away their stock knucles want to ship a driver side to 45177 let me know the shipping cost and I will pay it.

As for this guy with the broken knuckle check your steering stops they might be hitting. I recently broke my dr. side knuckle in the exact same spot as you and come to find out it was the hydro assist forcing my steering stop bolt into the stop and bent where the bolt goes into the knuckle.

[santa cruz crawler]

That's a good point 90 4x4 yota !!! The stoppers look like they are a little long.

[Monster Yota]

If you live around the Roseville, CA area I will give you a couple of stock knuckles. Come pick them up.

You do not have to tighten the studs into the knuckles to 130 ft lbs, just the nuts when you torque the  steering arms.

Hey OOPS where are you getting the 130 ft lbs from,,, FSM??? Just curious...

As for breaking a toy knuckle I never have, but I always torque my arms before/after and even sometimes during the wheeling trip.... Doing this I have had very good luck keeping my steering studs and trunion bearings alive as well...

[THK Matt]

Hey OOPS where are you getting the 130 ft lbs from,,, FSM??? Just curious...

As for breaking a toy knuckle I never have, but I always torque my arms before/after and even sometimes during the wheeling trip.... Doing this I have had very good luck keeping my steering studs and trunion bearings alive as well...

arms are 75 ft-lbs lol

[joey0712]

Hey OOPS where are you getting the 130 ft lbs from,,, FSM??? Just curious...

As for breaking a toy knuckle I never have, but I always torque my arms before/after and even sometimes during the wheeling trip.... Doing this I have had very good luck keeping my steering studs and trunion bearings alive as well...

Its 130 if your running arp studs.

[Monster Yota]

I have always torqued my arms to 75lbs thats why I was curious on the 130 ft lbs....   

[OOPS]

Sorry for that, I meant 100-110 with the ARP studs, at least that is what Brian recommends. I do not know what TG recommends for their studs

I did not make myself clear, some people think that you have to torque the stud into the knuckle the same as you torque the nut on the stud. You do not, I put red lock-tite on them, double nut them and get them tight. Then install the arms and torque to spec. 71 ft lb is the torque for the stock studs,

[Monster Yota]

Sorry for that, I meant 100-110 with the ARP studs, at least that is what Brian recommends. I do not know what TG recommends for their studs

I did not make myself clear, some people think that you have to torque the stud into the knuckle the same as you torque the nut on the stud. You do not, I put red lock-tite on them, double nut them and get them tight. Then install the arms and torque to spec. 71 ft lb is the torque for the stock studs,

haha, hey it was good seeing you at daves, how was the ride home?