Check my first gear pattern?

[zippo]

This gear isn't setting up correclty and I need some input! This is a 4cy 3rd, Yukon 5.29's sitting on an ARB 132.

I set the pinion preload to about 12 inch lbs. I then set the backlash to .20 mm or .008"



And after several attempts i got this. I have 2.20 mm or 0.086" sitting under the pinion.

Drive:



Coast:



And the verdict is?

[superyota]

pinion depth looks a bit too deep, but i wouldnt worry about it.  looks good.  i'd check the backlash specs though, .20 seems higher than what i think it's supposed to be.

[zippo]

it's .20mm  or .008" im a fan of metric.

[ZUK]

Got your pm....
Interesting....Even though I see a shallow condition, I also see a heavy favoring on the toe side....for both the drive and coast sides. I'd be curious what's stamped on that Yukon gear. In any event, add about .004" (.1mm) to the depth....set the ppl over 10 in/lb for sure....make sure you also have some carrier bearing pre-load on it when you dial in .008". I don't want the ring gear deflecting some from a wobbly ARB case effecting the look of the pattern. I'll check this thread for your update  ..... also, no drinking beer while setting it up

[ZUK]

I just re-read your posts....I see you have a .086" shim....The next most common pinion shim is .093" for some gearsets so I get this feeling yours will end up with a final .091~.093 value. That's a touch more than the .004 I mentioned.

[zippo]

The gear has the following:

Stamped "37X7" "394 S 20"
Printed "YG-T8-529"
Engraved "gL590"

[zippo]

Reworked it. Now with 2.29/2.30mm or 0.090" shims. I tightened the carrier bearings to 30' lbs with a backlash of .20 mm.

Drive Side:



Coast Side:

[NITE KRAWLERS]

That looks pretty good but maybe a little torwards the toe side still!! Not much though man probly good to roll!!

[crazykooter]

Your still to low on the pinion.  Are using the crush sleeve or solid spacer ? I am sure Zuk will chime in soon.  The depth to me looks good tho. 

[zippo]

I will be using a solid collar. But I don't have it install at this point. Just about 12" lbs preload on the pinion bearings.

[crazykooter]

Decided to remove this post since what I wrote was wrong for the most part. Blah No posting while tired !!

[zippo]

The solid collar only deals with pinion prelod not its depth in the tooth depth. Everything I have read, seen, and been told "and I might be wrong" is to. Add the shims, press on inner pinion bearing, install in housing using flamg and outer bearing, tighhten till you have 12ish inch lbs of preload, set backlash check pattern. Redo. Once the pattern is correct install collar or crush sleve. With the solid collar it takes more time have to check preload at torque and then add or remove shims "on the solid collar" to get it correct, I've never seen on any site the pinion set up first.

[crazykooter]

Ya I was way too tired to be thinking.  Anyhow the collar doesnt have to be there.  Sorry bout that.  I guess you just need to add a few more shims to get the pinion up some more.  Your really close to having it dialed.

[ZUK]

Zipp0---It's still too shallow....jump up to .095". By the way, so far it looks like you are pre-loading and doing it right :I used to set the collar first....then do a pattern check....but as of lately, there was absolutely no reason to do it in that order so now I do it just like you are and leaving only air between the bearings and it's your choice really. Save the solid collar til last 

[crazykooter]

Ya see its zuks fault !! lol j/k      The 1st time I set up gears I was so turned around I couldnt see straight.  Now that ive done it a bunch its fairly easy.  Tho I do wish i could visit zuk and what him do it.  Pics help but I know I could learn a ton. 

[zippo]

Ok reworked with 2.40mm or 0.095" shims around 40' lbs preload on the carrier bearings. The coast looks good,  but the drive is still heavy to the toe? It just won't move up. Is this common?

Drive:



Coast:



Pinion:

[crazykooter]

Is that a detroit your installing ? and are you using the old pinion bearing ?

[zippo]

No, New gears, New ARB 132, with all new Koyo and Timken bearings.

[crazykooter]

Its hard to tell whats going since I cant see it in person but if your coast is centered and drive is low then I would bring the pinion higher.  The coast might come up a little but its better to have the drive side centered imo. Maybe Zuk will see whats wrong. Did you ever measure the shims that were on the pinion when you 1st took it apart ? Not that it matters all that much I just measure the original shims then add .30 for a solid spacer and it gets me close.

[ZUK]

Its hard to tell whats going since I cant see it in person but if your coast is centered and drive is low then I would bring the pinion higher.  The coast might come up a little but its better to have the drive side centered imo. Maybe Zuk will see whats wrong. Did you ever measure the shims that were on the pinion when you 1st took it apart ? Not that it matters all that much I just measure the original shims then add .30 for a solid spacer and it gets me close.

Ya...I see what's wrong...that r/p seems to be 'behaving' like a Richmond even though it has stampings that say otherwise. This is a situation that you have limited control over.....the gears were cut and lapped in to behave like you are seeing.
     As expected, going thicker on the pinion shim brought the depth to where it needs to be and that is very close to ideal....at least the most ideal you will see with that r/p. But, as you see, the drive side now is even heavier on the toe side(inside) than before.  Standard procedure for your situation is to open up the backlash and that will pull the load bearing a little closer to the center and off the toe. The coast side will be pulled a little closer to toe which is not a bad thing. If you do not pull the driveside off the toe then you may get a light whistle during acceleration(typical of Richmonds).
     Open up the BL to .012" minimum.... That should help alot. shoot us some more pics. Depth is either perfect or slightly deep the way you have it now. Let's not touch the pinion shim until after this next set of pics. We will likely leave the depth alone anyways....or we might do a 2.3mm shim. ZUK

[elmo83]

Your first pictures looked good but the pinion is still a little too deep... If it was me I would take another ten thou out from under the pinion and set the backlash around .012 check the backlash at least three different places around the ring gear.

[ZUK]

Hey Elmo- 571 gears RULE

[crazykooter]

I knew having zuk chime in on this thread would teach me something.  Ill keep watching to see what this next step does.

[zippo]

This moved it very positively! .30mm or .012" backlash. So here is another question. I have to build one more ARB 4cly 3rd for my truck. With the given pattern, is this gear better as the front or rear third? And what gear is the best to go with to avoid this problem next time? Reboxing is such a pain in the assss.

Drive:



Coast:

[ZUK]

Nice Zippo
 Let's leave it just like that. I would use this one in the front.....and, for the rear, order up a Nitro Gear from http://www.justdifferentials.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_37_124_183&products_id=3497 Start with a .078" shim with that one.  ZUK

[ZUK]

Another note zippo....JustDifferentials does not sell the 4 cyl gears anymore.  The V6 long pinion head gears are in greater demand so they are going that way which is not a bad thing. You just have to make sure that you have the correct master install kit for the V6 style r/p in your 4 cyl 3rd. Note that all the 4 cylinder trucks from 88~95 from the factory have V6 ring/pinions in a 4 cyl 3rd. The factory can pull that off by just a simple swap to a 'thinner inner pinion bearing'.  So make sure you get the a master kit for an 88 22RE truck and all is good. Solid collar of course also.
       Probably best to call and ask for Carl or Jeremy. They are experts on Toyota applications and will get you just what you need. They also set up gears on Toyotas so they are not just "sales people"...they do it all. Don't be afraid to update this thread with pics of those patterns too. 
ZUK

[zippo]

Awesome. Thanks Zuk! and everyone else. I will go with the Nitro for the rear and bolt this on in the front!

I know alot of places set up gears, but:

A) I saved $250 to $350 per third.

B) Learned alot! I have rebuilt engines, transmissions, transfercases but never Thrids, till now that is!
Though this takes the most finesse.

C) im paranoid about having most people do work on my stuff. So many horror stories.

When I get the Cash up I am going to build the third and will post pics ofcourse!

[elmo83]

5:71s  till death do us part.... That dont happen all too often.

[zippo]

So I replaced the inner bearing, I kept it with a 2.40MM shim, .30 mm backlash with 120lbs on the carrier bearings. This moved it back down? Is this the best im going to get? It is going in the front as stated above. This gear is driving me crazy!

[ZUK]

Looks to me like the depth is ok....very little movement....maybe it went a touch deeper but that has very little to do with what happened to this paint.  Open up the BL more....You said it was the same .30mm  .012" as before but the paint tells me it's more like .010 or .008". Keep opening it up til you get the same results as we had before. Rotate the pinion back and forth while lightly tapping on the bearing caps to "equalize tensions" on the 2 carrier bearings.
   Since you seem to have it down taking good close-up macro pics why don't you shoot a couple pics of the stampings on the ring gear.
   I'm up in nice, cool Flagstaff(7400 feet) at my sister's cabin.....surrounded by pines now enjoying the 65 degree mornings.  Down in the Phoenix area(1500 feet) it will be 112 by 2pm in the shade today.  My brother-in-law here has a sweet 2003 TJ and today, I am helping him install a set of 456 gears in the front dana 30.  Toyota 3rds are so much "easier" to work on.....do everything at the bench and no frickin shims behind the carrier bearings to waste time with