Topic: Bolt-in cage tech

[82juguete]

Would anyone care to post up pictures of how the OD "clamping" system on these types of cages work. (Marlin or AllPro) I'M trying to get an idea on how these sleeves work so that I can hopefully come up with an improvement on it.

Basically I want to do a cage, but fully welding it inside the truck (ie removing entire headliner, interior, etc) is not an option. Only way to fully burn it outside of the truck and then install it is to do it in multiple sections, which means the necessity of some type of joint. I want these to be as strong as possible so as to not compromise the protection the cage needs to provide.

Just wanted to spring a discussion on best routes for this.

[82juguete [OP]]

Here's something to chew on:

An obvious concern with adding a joint is that the force in a rollover will collapse that weak spot. Myu questions are: Will moviing it as near as possible to the rear hoop help alleviate this stress? (top picture) Why do the cage kits seem to have the joints right in the middle? Also will a tube connector like i drew, ran with grade 8 hardware, provide a stronger joint since its creating a shear load instead of a sleeve which is susceptible to bending just like the tube?

[H8PVMNT]

A buddy rolled my '94 with an all pro cage with the sleeves.  It was a full, good roll and they didn't budge at all.  The top of the cab wraped around the cage to the point of seeing the outline of the cage clearly in the sheetmetal.  I would not hesitate to use the sleeves again, at all.  One good thing to do though is make really fat floor plates that go up the firewall and sandwhich plates for the bottom that are a different size so they can't sheer the metal.  I even made my rear hoop plates mount through the bottom and back of the cab just to create some extra rigidity.

The only problem I can see with the tube connectors is that it will be hard to get you padding around them.  If you can figure that out I guess they would work just fine as long as your welds are good.  I know they make some other types of fasteners for this same problem.  If you search around on off road fab sites I'm sure you could find a cleaner method than the sleeves.  I've seen these connectors with two halves that bolt together and kind of press into the tube joint ends.

[82juguete [OP]]

I know the connectors you are talking about but am not convinced they are much stronger and also they are $$$... Do you happen to have any pictures of the sleeves? Are they just 2 halves of a larger tube that have 1 bolt going through each side of the 2 sections of cage or what?

Also I am planning on having sandwich plates which will hopefully be tied into either the sliders or frame. My goal really isnt just to be protected in a low speed rollover on the rocks, but actually live if I do get into any kind of accident on the street since the likelihood of me going on my lid is pretty high. This is why i am so concerned about these stress issues.

[crazykooter]

SUPER  GLUE IT !!  Anyhow you dont have to weld the cage together at all.  You can have it slip over a tube which matches inner diameter of the bar.  Main this to this is the cage is 3 pieces.  Top and front and back sections. To install it you place the front part of cage into the top then slip the back section into place then bolt it all down to floor. As long as your front and rear pillars are secure it will hold up to pretty hard flop.  This type of cage isnt ment to high speed rolls but on trail rig it imo just as good a job as the all pro and marlin cages.  Ill post some pictures of mine tomorrow before I pull it out of my 79 yota. 

[H8PVMNT]

I know the connectors you are talking about but am not convinced they are much stronger and also they are $$$... Do you happen to have any pictures of the sleeves? Are they just 2 halves of a larger tube that have 1 bolt going through each side of the 2 sections of cage or what?



Also I am planning on having sandwich plates which will hopefully be tied into either the sliders or frame. My goal really isnt just to be protected in a low speed rollover on the rocks, but actually live if I do get into any kind of accident on the street since the likelihood of me going on my lid is pretty high. This is why i am so concerned about these stress issues.

No they are a 3"-4" peice of tube that you just slide over the joint where the two cage peices but together, not a split peice of tube..  You want to use a size that is pretty snug on the OD of your cage tubing.  Then you just run a bolt through each side.  I'll try to get a pick, but mine is all taken apart right now for my 4Runner build.  I think you are stressing out on it a little too much.  

Just having a decent cage made of good DOM material will be vastly more protection than stock.  A buddy of mine just had a BAD roll over in his YJ.  He had a really crappy cage made of the stock rear roll bar and some front runners made of HREW mild steel with the ends just tacked to the rusty floorboards.  Despite the lousy engineering the cage worked and he walked away with only bruises.  

I think it qualifies as a high speed multiple roll over.  Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4rY7Y6wgYA&feature=related

[OOPS]

I used sleeves on mine and it held up fine. On the inside of the rollbar tube I welded a heavy walled tube for the bolt to pass through. This way when I tightened the nut and bolt it would not crush the rollbar tube.

[82juguete [OP]]

cool, cool. I like the idea of sleeving the bolt holes like that. I'm glad this didnt turn into a "it wont work unless you cut the lid off and do it up trophy truck style with 500 feet of tubing and triangulation and stuff" verbal battle. I say BS to that. Although this style of cage is mainly qualified to protect you in a low speed, offroad roll, you cant try to tell me that having one in a roll on the freeway wont help as well. Without anything I can just see the whole cab getting smashed like a tin can.

Ultimately my plan in to run an interior cage, likely with the sleeves shown above, and hopefully with the main hoops out of DOM with HREW bracing and supports. Also plan to run downtubes out the back of the cab and straight to the frame, which should help prevent a collapse backward (given how the a-pillar tubes are slanted back). With heavy floor plates sandwiched and tied to the frame I think I will be MORE than safe in most situations.