Home Audio Speakers - Your Favorites

[blackdiamond]

Recently I stopped in at a local high end audio shop, more for entertainment than anything else, but my interest was peaked with a few of their products.  This shop only carries Focal brand speakers and they have demo speakers in the store ranging from $600 per pair to $180,000 per pair (not a typo).  I was able to listen to a pair of $12,000 Utopia Diablo "bookshelf" speakers with a JL Audio subwoofer that retails for about $3,600.  The turntable was in the $20,000 range.  In any case, I was amazed at how well the Focal Chorus 706v "bookshelf" speakers sounded for the money and my wheels started turning.  I'll be working stupid amounts of overtime for the next few months and should be able to put a chunk towards speakers if I choose to go that direction.  I went back a second time and listened again to the 706v speakers with a SW 800v subwoofer that is from the next line up.

My current speakers are Infinity IL50s that I've had for about 6 years and paid $450 for (retail was about $1,800).  I'm positive that the Focal 706v speaker and subwoofer would greatly improve my sound quality, but there's so many options I'm finding it difficult to know where to start.

Other high end brands are B&W, Paradigm, Wilson, Difinitive Audio and many others.  I'm looking to stay under $2,000 for two main speakers and a subwoofer, but might go a little higher for the right deal and depending on how much money the overtime provides.

What do you recommend?

[blackdiamond]

Also, any thoughts or experience with Focal speakers?

[Cheesemaker]

My two main speakers (only speakers) I have been running for the last 15 years have been the MTX Audio AAL 1240 series. (12 in. sub)  Been hammering them ever since I bought them.  We watch/listen to our tv/dvd/music through these speakers, basically all day long, (kids   )  every day and they still sound great.  I'd buy these again if I had to.  I paid like $400 for the pair.  I'm not sure what they go for now.

~Stole these pics off the net~



This is the amp I run, picked it up from a buddy who didn't have the room for it.  Paid $100 and it must weigh 80 pounds, and really sounds good.  No surround sound, it's just a 80's Sherwood model AD260B.  Don't know what the specs are on it, but I never had it over 12 on the dial, goes to 20.  Will push me out of the house.  


I've got a buddy that has spendt more than my house cost just in stereo equipment.  He is a true audiophile.  He owns speakers that came out of a movie theater, that he had to cut some major holes in the ceiling just to get them in his house.  And a $100 cd player, that has had over $1000 worth of mods done to it.  And his listening room has over $40,000 worth of speakers, and I really can't tell the difference in those vs. a $600 dollar set of speakers.  He his speakers spiked into the floor and 200 pounds of lead weight stacked on top of the cabinets, to prevent stray vibrations.  I think it just depends on,
~How much are you willing to spend?
~Can you justify spending that much?  Will a $5000 set of speakers sound better than a $1000 set?
~And what is your listening time?  Couple hours a day?  Weekends only?
~How is your room designed/layout, your rooms acoustics can ruin a good sounding system.  Echo? Soft materials?
~Amp, some of the best set of speakers won't sound good if you don't have a good amp.  

I've never heard of Focal speakers.  So, I don't know what they sound or look like.  But I do know what my system sounds like and I love it.  It may be on the cheaper end of the spectrum for sound system, but I wouldn't change anything.  But I am looking into getting a 5.1/7.1 system so I can recover lost space my speakers take up.  And I'm gonna look into a Bose system, cause they are an excellent option for me.  Not too expensive and excellent sound.

[blackdiamond]

I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference between the $12,000 pair of Focals with the JL Audio subwoofer compared to the $600 Focals with the $900 subwoofer.  It's simply night and day and I heard them in the same room, granted different amps because I requested to hear the affordable ones on an amp similar to what I have.

Stay away from Bose.  They have capitalized on a niche market, but there are better options out there for similar money.  An example is a box set from Best Buy that is a Denon 5.1 receiver with Boston Acoustics speakers.  I purchased this combo for my sister-in-law and it beats the pants off of Bose and the speakers are very similar in size.

The audio guys that I know all hate Bose.  I think it's more related to the fact that the average Joe thinks it high end when it really just expensive for average sound than it is a dislike of their actual sound quality.  They sound good enough to be great for the average listener than doesn't want to see the speakers, but you pay a lot for the name.  I recently listened to some 201s and 301s at Best Buy and had to shake my head because I used to think they sounded good.

Infinity has several sets of speakers that are similar to Bose is size and will sound much better for equal or less money.  I can give you more specifics if you want.

Also, don't bother going for more than 5.1 surround because the vast majority of blu-ray disks are recorded in 5.1.  The additiona 6.1 or 7.1 channels are simply created by the receiver from the 5.1 channels.  There are a few disk that have more than 5.1 channels, but it's probably less than 5% in the movie world.  I've seen some music type disks done in 7.1 but that's about it.

[blackdiamond]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Denon+-+375W+5.1-Ch.+Home+Theater+System/9342071.p?id=1218088196263&skuId=9342071

A great system that just needs a blu-ray player to complete it.

[blackdiamond]

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=TSS-800CHR&ser=TSS&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

Here's a link to one of the Infinity options.  I have these as my rear channel's and they really sound great.  There is another step or two up and I'm sure would improve things if they were used for all 5 channels.

Here's some good prices for the three levels:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/brand/100/1/infinity/

You'll find the prices much better than Bose and the sound will be equal or likely better.  I think I'd lean towards the 800s because the subwoofer is a 10".  The 12" subwoofer would be a huge gap from the small speakers.

[blackdiamond]

A big part of the reason that your speakers can produce loud volumes is their 92 dB rating, they are very efficient speakers.  The rating essentially means that at some test frequency (unknown to me) they produce 92 dB of sound 1 meter in front of the speaker with 1 watt of power input.   My speakers are only 88 dB so they wouldn't be as loud given equal power input.

[Plekto]

Finally something I actually know a bit about

The basics of sound reproduction are three things, really - your source, your amplifier, and your output(speakers in this case).  Let's keep it simple, then.

1 - Basic electronic theory has been known, solved, and put in a museum as far as audio is concerned.  That is to say that the same knowledge from 20-30 years ago is just as valid as today, much like now, say, plumbing in your house is a "known" factor and there's nothing in the core aspects of it that needs to be discovered or changed. 

2 - The same is true for human hearing and perception.  We know the limits of human hearing and it's not going to likely ever change  at least in the next thousand or two years, that is, barring genetic tinkering and the like.  The benefit of both together is that it gives us a very good set of limitations that we can use to keep cost and resources to a minimum.  After all, you don't need stainless steel piping for your sewage lines, though I suppose you could do it if you wanted to.(ie - there's a point where it's overkill so stop spending your money)

Let's get to the first aspect, the input source.  This is thankfully easy now, since CD audio is better than roughly 97-98% of human hearing and always will be.  Digital audio is overkill by a large margin and so that's thankfully not a factor.  ie - a $200 CD player will sound as good as a $5000 one providing the rest of the "chain" to the speakers is working properly.

So, this brings us to the first main issue - amplification.  Now, there are huge differences with audio, and more than half of the issues that people have with their speakers sounding "bad" are due to the amplifier/preamp/tuner/etc combos that they bought.   Here are a few problems that I see in the current choices:
1 - Made in China with substandard labor and quality control.
2 - Build quality and designs rely on microchips and mosfets and similar cheap methods to run the preamp sections and sometimes the main amplifiers.
3 - Actual power ratings are not continuous but peak through one channel and not all at once.  Also, impedance that it can operate at is 8ohms at best.  Maybe 6 in a pinch.(more on this later)
4 - Power supplies are a huge part of any amplifier and using $20 piece of junk component here is all too common.

You want a big, solid amplifier that is basically a high-end version of what you get in your car.  A brick that does one function and that's it.  Of course, the best sound comes from tube amplifiers, but they are expensive, fragile, hot, suck tons of power, and don't run loud enough(unless you're willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars that is - just try pricing a single 500W tube)

My recommendation here if you have the money is to by from one of these companies because their quality control is good and the prices are decent enough.
Outlaw Audio
Jolida - their solid state units are fairly decently priced.
Norh - they have a few amps from time to time that are worth considering.
Bryston (honestly, no need to ever spend more than this - it doesn't get ANY better since humans can't hear the differences in blind tests above this level - and it has a 20 year warranty as well)

You can also get a good 1970s Yamaha or Pioneer amp, or one of the above used.  You will need a preamp/av processor/switching unit, but almost anything at all will work, since you'll be bypassing the amplifier section entirely.(yes, feel free to use a $200 cheap Denon or similar a/v processor as a preamp)  My setup is two old 1980 or so Yamaha CA 1000 amps hooked into an old Denon 5.1 unit.  I have big enough speakers so that I don't need a center channel, so technically I get by with a 4.1 setup, saving me a power amp.

As for specs and power, you want roughly 2x the normal power for your speaker, for each speaker.  Ie - if it's a 50W RMS(continuous) rated speaker and you're running 5 of them for surround, you need 500W to have sufficient headroom.  This means the back of the unit needs to specifically say 500W on the UL labs sticker near the power supply.  Converting to amps, this means for a standard 110V home outlet, you need roughly 4.6 amps on that sticker.  If it says 1.2 or something similar, it's pulling the max into one channel marketing trick.

Now, of course, you don't have to be silly here.   $1000-$2000 or so is the most you should ever spend on an amp, and feel free to shop used as well.  Because even 10W cleanlyX5 channels through efficient speakers will be almost deafeningly loud.  My old Yamaha units are rated at about 30-40WPC in class A mode and they shake the house.  (also get hot - nice space heaters - heh)

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7075.html
This is a good example - the specs don't look that impressive at first, but it will annihilate most consumer grade amplifiers.  The 41lb weight of the unit is a sign as well that they're not joking around   Buy a normal AV receiver to go with this - no need to spend big money here.  Save the real money for the speakers.

****
So we get to the crazy part of the industry - wires.  If you have a good source and a good amplifier, almost any speaker will sound acceptable.  From there, it's a matter of HOW good it sounds.  Here are a few basic rules.

- Speaker wires are just that.  Wire.  It's all the same copper that comes from the smelters that you see on copper pots, plumbing, in house wiring, and circuit boards, to name a few places you'll see it.  The claims and marketing is just that - utter nonsense from a physics and engineering perspective.  What matters here is mass.  If you are running long runs, you need to deal with two factors, impedance loss and interference. 

Impedance loss it the first, and the general rule of thumb without getting into a holy war or listing half a dozen links full of technical specs is - get some 12 gauge stranded wires.  These can be anything you want, but the simple fact is that with a couple of easy DIY modifications, you can do exactly as well(blind-tested in fact) with common electrical wire.

Save your money.  Here are the steps to perfect wire:
To cancel out hum from other wires and lights, you need to put a slight twist in the wires.  Take two wires and place them in a vise.  Put the other ends in a drill motor.  Slowly twist them until they are about one turn in every foot or so.  I find it helpful to use heat shrink tubing on the ends and a tiny piece every foot or so(inch long) to keep them wound together.  If you want pro looking wires, use heat shrink tubing on the entire length(raises cost to about a dollar a foot, though).  That leaves the ends, and a simple crimp tool and lug connectors will suffice(I like these instead of the common RCA or plug or friction(wire in terminal) connections as they make a nice flat surface to surface contact and don't generally move around)

Total cost is 10-20 cents a foot.  Sound quality is identical for under 50 ft runs as anything else.  Unless you live in an acoustic test chamber, the drop in quality at even 100 ft from this will be impossible to hear.  Your cat or dog might, but we won't.  Even the refrigerator two rooms away will mask any tiny differences. 

So why do the demos sound so good?  10-12 gauge wire under all that poofy insulation and a massive power amp.  It's not rocket science.  Put that into even your own speakers and you'll be amazed at the improvement.

2 - So let's get to speakers.  You have a cheap CD player or source, a goof power amp, and a cheap but serviceable AV processor/preamp. Now for the part where you likely pull your hair out.

You want 2-3 drivers as a rule in your speakers.  You can offload the woofer to a point to a sub, but the fact is that tweeters and midrange drivers are not possible to design as a single unit for a reasonable cost. 
Here are a few basics:
- Construction is usually useless.  It's all made out of MDF fiberboard as it's dense and has good acoustical properties.  Veneers or fancy finishes are nice to lok at but do nothing for the sound.
- You want front-ported speakers if you can as anything smaller than a guitar or bass amplifier will produce bass sounds that you can hear/are directional in nature.  For most rooms, the point where sound isn't directional is around 50-100hz(dimensions and construction of the room alters this)
- You want to go as large as you can comfortably fit in the room.  Again, the simple matter is that a 6 inch speaker in a cabinet the size of a shoebox won't sound as good as the same driver in a cabinet the size of a mini fridge.(if the company isn't a total screwup that is)
- The speakers don't need to be loud in terms of watts as long as your amplifier is capable of driving them and having some headroom/power left over.  The amp needs to be more powerful than the speakers, despite the initial logic which would suggest otherwise. 
- You want at least two 8 inch speakers in the front to have enough impact in movies.  This isn't about loudness but about sound pressure.  Little 4-6 inch speakers just don't move any air and that's going to feel weak.  You know this from car stereos as well - those 4 inchers are tinny and weak and nothing can really fix them.

You don't need to spend more than about $1000, ever, on a pair of good speakers if you follow those basic rules.  Now, as for what types to consider, that's a whole other topic.   I prefer to build my own and save money.  I won't generally buy mainstream products, either, as the cost is excessive for what you get.

Here are a few of my normal choices that I like/recommend, though:

- Tannoy.  Their older models from about ten years ago, specifically.  Much better than their new stuff and an absolute steal for what they do.  Look especially at their Saturns or dual-concentric lines. 
- JLB Pro.  Old school studio monitors(4200/4400 series, used) are still hard to beat.  I own four of these and they are gorgeous sounding if huge.(heh) 
- KEF - old models from the 80s are still worth every penny. (notice the used if possible theme. )

New, I like:
- Norh.  Fairly decent and well built.  Unconventional shape makes placement hard, though.
- Magnepan.  Flat panel speakers and astounding sound quality. Requires a hefty amp, though.  Not recommended used as they don't ship or handle abuse well.
- B&W - pricey, but their 7/8 inch Kevlar bookshelf speakers are very nice for their size.  They make excellent surrounds.  I'd not waste the money on their higher-end stuff as there's cheaper alternatives out there.
- Energy Speakers. These are the plain vanilla box versions of the better Mirage line.  Good subs for not a lot of money as well.
- Sunfire makes some of the best reasonably priced and decent subs on the market.
- Ascend Acoustics makes nice speakers as well.  The older $300-$400 a pair speakers are the ones to look at.  Good value for the money.

And of course, the last two places.  DIY heaven:
- Madisound
- Parts-Express

It will require some work on your part, but the kits here will generally smoke the shorts off of the commercial offerings.  For half the price or less.  There are also kits like the one Ellis Audio has that you can make yourself that are amazing as well.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8541
This, for instance, is downright silly.  Complete overkill for most applications.

[blackdiamond]

Good information and a nice read.  I'm not sure that I agree 100% with everything you said, but overall I you're right on.  I don't think any two people ever agree on all of the specifics.

After my root canal I figured I should end the day on a better note, pun intended, so I stopped by the local Hi Fi place for a listen.  They are a Focal / JM Labs (Focal makes the drivers for Wilson Audio) dealer and have the absolute top end in stock for demo.  I started with the 706v bookshelf speakers, then switched to the 716v floorstanding cousin and then upgraded to the 816v floorstanding model that has identical drivers in a better cabinet design.  It was fun to listen to identical music and listen the to differences and improvements.  After I had convinced myself that the 816v were far superior and on my want list, we pulled out the BIG guns.

The Focal Grande Utopia speakers were hooked up for a prospective customer along with a JL Audio Gothom G213 subwoofer.  The Focal's retail for 180k and the subwoofer is $12-14k, I forget.  Obviously, the equipment driving them is pretty high quality as well.  It was fun to listen to them, but I was actually more impressed by the Focal Diablo Utopia speakers and JL Audio Fathom F113 subwoofer combo that I had heard on previous visits.  They were a $12k and $3.5k combo so a much better "value."  If I had $30k to drop I'd have them, but if I had $300k to drop it wouldn't be on speakers.

I took in some of my own CDs and it was fun to watch the salesman forget that he was selling and just get lost in the music.  He actually kept three of them so he could purchase them and let the owner listen to them.  A few more months of overtime and I'll have my pick of the "reasonably" priced speakers.  Before I purchase I plan to take my speakers in per their invite and listen to them side by side for a straight up comparison since the listening environment are very different.  Theirs is great and my stinks, but that's life.

I was amazed at how well the 816v's reproduced some organ bass considering they are only rated to something like 47 Hz, the 716v reproduced it in a quality way, but the 816v's actually added some punch to the notes.  It was beautiful.  One of my CDs is a vocal group with a bass singer than has a crazy range that actually drops into the subwoofer on my current speakers.  It was nice to hear him on speakers that could reproduce his voice without a subwoofer.  His two CDs are actually a huge part of my decision factor as I believe they are really difficult to do well.  The salesman was baffled by his voice and loved the music.

[blackdiamond]

Plekto,

Your opinion on this combo:

Onkyo TX-SR606
90 watts minimum continuous for 2 channels driven at 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20kHz
105 watts minimus continuous for 2 channels driven at 8 ohms at 1 kHz
110 watts minimum continuous for 2 channels driven at 1 kHz

Dynamic Power: 210W (3 ohms front), 180W (4 ohms front) & 110W (8 ohms front)

Speaker Impedance: 6 to 16 ohms

Power Supply: 5.5A

Speakers:
Focal Chorus 816v
Recommended Amp Power: 40 to 200 watts
Sensitivity: 91.5 dB
Normal Impedance: 8 ohms

[blackdiamond]

The other "end" of the spec range for the speakers I'm interested in is the 836v that is recommended for 40 to 300 watts and are 92 dB and 8 ohms.  Both are minimum impedance of 3 ohms.

[Plekto]

The amplifier tests out to roughly 78 wpc all channels driven - figuring ~5 amps max and the rest for the a/v and computers and preamp sections. (5*110)/7 = ~78WPC.  It's acceptable, though they're fudging the figures a bit.  My worry is that it won't do 4 even oms, so when the speakers hit their lower frequencies, they will *want* 3 ohms and the amp can't keep up.  

How speakers work is interesting in that they are told the wave form to replicate and try to do it.  They then draw power from the amp(and not the other way around) as they need.  This is why the amp needs to be bigger than the speakers and able to handle their lowest reasonable impedance.  Otherwise it will sound weak and get hot and eventually die as you crank up the sound to compensate(my friend bought a similar Denon and his 5.1 system fried it in a week playing movies at theater volumes.  The slightly more powerful replacement(warranties and playing slightly dumb are great - heh) lasted 3-4 years.  But it eventually died as well.

Those are good speakers, but they also require an amp of roughly twice the power of what you're considering.  Focal also charges far too much for their stuff, IMO.  The Energy RC50 are very similar speakers for less money, as an example.  But if you can manage to any of the Tannoy Dual Concentric lines, your jaw will drop at the sound for the dollar.  I'd use their current DC8T as a baseline for quality.  If you can get close to or equal to it for half the price, buy that speaker and enjoy.  Anything less, sound quality-wise isn't worth considering if you're into serious audio. Or just buy those, though they DO run about $1800 a speaker - ouch.

That's my best advice, really.  Listen to something like these and try to find something as good for half the price.

Or an old pair of Tannoy Saturns or JBL 4410A studio monitors - both I'd recommend without reservation as they are as low cost as you can find, or were, a few years ago when they were still made, that accurately reproduced sound to a level where you could use it for critical listening and mixing and other "real" audio work.  Below them there was a massive drop in quality and above it was diminishing returns.  They ran about $1500 for a pair for both of them, but that was a decade ago.  And they were, um, large.  Yeah.  Lol.  Of course, with inflation, that means about $2500-$3000 in today's money.  But since then, lots of companies are making less expensive alternatives.  (and a lot also make overpriced crud)

My HT setup, btw, consists of 2 JBL 4410A in front, 2 JBL 4408A in back(surrounds the size of a full-size speaker - joy!) and an old Sunfire sub.  My father's Tannoy Saturn setup sounds very very close in quality and it was a personal and aesthetic choice more than anything else(The JBLs are huge and boxy and ugly)

If you've ever heard a pair of Grado headphones, that's the level of sound they produce and you should aim for, IMO.  Buy once and enjoy it for a couple of decades.  (each time you upgrade speakers you lose a TON of money doing so)

As an aside - heh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_loudspeaker
This of course is the holy grail - absolutely nothing will sound better than speakers using this sort of technology.  But they are very pricey, huge, and require amps the size of a mini-fridge to run.  If you want to play around, though, find a place that has a 7.1 electrostatic setup and blow your mind at what 50-60K+ buys.

[blackdiamond]

http://www.magnepan.com/

By the way, I only use a 5.1 setup so I'm exploring the options of Bi-Amping or possibly getting another amp for the main channels.  The specs seem to indicate that the "overhead" is adequate for more than one channel, but the dynamic rating indicates 1 channel in paranthesis so who knows.

The salesman at the audio shop told me today that it should do fine for the speakers that I'm looking at rather than trying to "push" an amp on me.  They deal is the most expensive speakers available so he shouldn't be out to save me any money.

[Plekto]

Magnepan are fantastic speakers.  You want to wall-mount the speakers on a large piano hinge, though.  For HT, you need to swing the smaller front panels to where they are at about a 30-45 degree angle.  They radiate sounds from both sides, so nearly edge-on is actually better than facing you. 

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/magnepan_mmgw_mmgc.htm
A review of their budget setup.  Of course, the smart person substitutes a pair of larger MMGs for the fronts if they are on a budget. (most surround information isn't below 80-100hz anyways).  It requires a large room, but the results are stunning.  Very much like a real theater in that you can't really tell where each speaker is - it just sounds 360 degrees or close to it.  As a former musician myself, I can tell what brand cymbals they are using or what type of strings on most guitars(stainless vs regular, for instance) - not bad for $550 a pair.  The only thing that comes close runs about $2000 in a conventional speaker.  But you will need to spend the saved money on a better amp.

They are 4-5ohm, though.  But that's a nearly ruler-flat impedance, so they are pretty easy to get an amp to match them.  You will need a very very fast sub, though, since when they hit that lower frequency limit they literally stop working/don't produce any sound at all beyond it. 

As for sound, you have to hear them to believe.  You don't need huge wattage, either, since you're talking about radiating surfaces the size of several bass drum heads.  200WPC into 4 ohms per channel should be more than enough.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html
This is a typical solution.  Not necessarily this, but something like it or one of these used should more than suffice.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-speakers/17883-magnepan-mmg-floor-stander.html

I'd also check out at least another high-end shop that sells different brands, if for nothing other than to reinforce that you're making the right choices.

[blackdiamond]

I've been so busy at work that I forgot about this thread.

I'm pretty set, at this point, on working a deal for the Focal 836v speakers.  I think they'll perform extremely well for me.  With the amount of overtime that I've been working and with a buddy buying my current speakers I'll have them covered by Wednesday.  I worked 40 hours of overtime in three weeks and it'll continue for several months at a similar pace it makes the 836v speakers a real possibility rather than "settling" for the wonder 816v speakers.

If I only had time to stop by and talk prices...

[Plekto]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/1571980236.html

You might also drive over and check these out.  They're very nice speakers for the money - and of course, you can haggle

[blackdiamond]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/ele/1571980236.html

You might also drive over and check these out.  They're very nice speakers for the money - and of course, you can haggle

I don't know what was on the link since it expired, but I purchased a pair of Focal 836v speakers last night.  It'll be a while before I get them, but they were head and shoulders above the 816v speakers.  A friend and I spend about an hour and a half comparing the two and my wife listed to one song and each and voted for the 836v's.

The coolest moment was the Josh Groban/Josh Bell song where the harp in the background came to life in an amazing way.  The 816v wasn't even comparable.  The harp went from a nondescript background instrument to nearly a duet with the violin, simply an amazing improvement.

[blackdiamond]

My speakers arrived today and are simply amazing.  There is always ways to improve, but I really couldn't justify wanting a better quality sound.  I'm sure I'll upgrade some of the other audio components along the way (i.e. my receiver won't last forever), but I think I could be happy if nothing ever changed.  The bass response in my room is actually much better than either of the listening rooms at the store, I'm really excited about this.  It would take quite a subwoofer to improve the bass response without degrading the sound quality.

[Toymin8r]

All of my speakers are Infinity except for my center speaker which is a JBL.  My receiver and amp are Denon.   If I had it to do over again I think I'd get Klipsch speakers. 

[blackdiamond]

All of my speakers are Infinity except for my center speaker which is a JBL.  My receiver and amp are Denon.   If I had it to do over again I think I'd get Klipsch speakers. 

I was Infinity IL-50s in the front with a Bose center channel and Infinity TSS-800s in the rear two channels.  The Focal 836v speakers are an amazing improvement to the point that the Bose center channel may just go away.

My sister-in-law listened to her first song on the Focal's tonight and said...keep in mind that I had to convince her to sit directly in front of them instead along a side wall...that you knew they were great speakers when you could hear the volin player take their fingers off of the strings.  That's positive feedback.

[Plekto]

All of my speakers are Infinity except for my center speaker which is a JBL.  My receiver and amp are Denon.   If I had it to do over again I think I'd get Klipsch speakers. 

Klipsch are loud but they are about as accurate as a guy with a welder and a bottle of Jack.  You can do much better for the money.

[blackdiamond]

Klipsch are loud but they are about as accurate as a guy with a welder and a bottle of Jack.  You can do much better for the money.

I have a co-worker that deams of owning a specific pair of Klipsch speakers.  I've not actually heard a pair other than at Best Buy and that doesn't count.

A little after my sister-in-laws comment about hearing the violin player take his fingers off of the strings I overheard my wife whisper to her, "that's why I didn't argure too much."

Did I get the best speaker available for the money?  Probably not, but I did get something that I can't imagine being more happy with and I've spent several hours listening to six-figure audio equipment at the store.  I figure if my response after going from the super high end speakers to the ones I have is more about them having a different sound than sounding crappy in comparision I'm on the right track.

I still need to see how they work in Home Theater mode, but I think they should have more than enough bass to be satisfactory.

[blackdiamond]

Plektco,

One other thing that I noticed is that my amplifier is generating a bit more heat than it did in the past or at least it seems that way.  My last speakers were rated for 8 ohms, and likely didn't deviate much since the bass was handled by the build-in subwoofer and amp.  The Focal's are rated for 8 ohm (average), but have a minimum of something like 3.9 ohms @ 150 Hz.  It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts or if it ever becomes an issue.  I can't say that I've really paid attention to the heat output on the receiver before so it's difficult to really know, but it is 6 ohm stable and has a 230 watt rating at 4 ohms so I'd think it should handle it unless I cranked the volume for extended periods of time.  The speakers don't sound like they're lacking in any way.

[Plekto]

yeah, you may need to run the main two channels as pre-out to a couple of monoblocks to save the rest of the unit.  Of course, a small 120mm fan at low speeds is also an option - just to pull air through the chassis versus the normal convection cooling.

[dk98]

the ones i have came with my panasonic dvd player sounds good for 1300watts

[blackdiamond]

the ones i have came with my panasonic dvd player sounds good for 1300watts

Here's a little test you can do, try a Josh Groban CD and if it sounds good compared to other CDs then your system isn't capable of exposing it for what it is.  Compared to most of my other CDs the Josh Groban ones sound the worst.  It's like coming home to switch from Groban to one that is recorded well.

For Xmas, I purchsed a Denon/Polk Audio 5.1 surround system for my sister-in-laws house.  It's similar to a Bose for speaker size, but sounds much better for a lot less money.  It was rated for 375 watts, but sounded much better than the 1000 watt all-in-one systems next to it that I had been considering.  Once I found out that many of the systems had propriatary speaker connections I stopped being interested.

[blackdiamond]

yeah, you may need to run the main two channels as pre-out to a couple of monoblocks to save the rest of the unit.  Of course, a small 120mm fan at low speeds is also an option - just to pull air through the chassis versus the normal convection cooling.

Part of me wouldn't mind an excuse to get a better reciever.  I'd have to do some looking, but if forced to purchase today would go with an Integra 50.1.  Today a co-worker, that's a bit of an audiophile, pointed out the difference between Direct and Stereo modes on my Onkyo reciever.  The Direct mode is inputs = outputs no matter how many are coming in while Stereo adjusts for two channels and provides more headroom.  It amazing how different the two modes sound even with the EQ turned off on Stereo to match the Direct mode.  The bass is significantly more full.

I'm really unhappy with the Josh Groban CDs that I have.  I found a couple of songs on his CD Awake that sounded OK, not great, but they were produced by someone other than David Foster.  It appears that he's great at anything related to music except recording CDs.

[Plekto]

Yeah, that's the issue with competent speakers.  Rubbish mixing or mastering really is apparent.

[blackdiamond]

Tell me about reference volume.  I know it's the dB volume that the music was intended to be listened to, but is it a set dB or different for each piece of music?



I have not found much information about it online.

[Plekto]

That is different for each piece.  Normally volume 3-4 on your dial is about what they record to be listened back at(roughly 1 W actual output if our receiver has those old-style output meters)