We test Marlin Crawler's HREW vs. Competitor's DOM Bumper Steel

[toytank]

thanks big mike thats really cool

[BigMike]

so basicly what you are trying to prove is that your steel isn´t weaker than the competetors,  not that usa hrew is stronger than usa dom.

Precisely!

Its great you did this test because i can say i even got fooled for the idea of their DOM being stronger...

...i couldn't build them out of US DOM for what it cost to buy them from Trail-Gear. So i assumed DOM is DOM and after receiving them i realized that is far from true.

EXACTLY!

That is why my closing sentence on the Pirates post was:

As proven here, just because it's DOM doesn't mean it's more dent resistant than HREW.

Now check this out:

Somehow while everyone was resting their heads on their pillows last night, the competitor has MAGICALLY replaced all of their inventory with some "better" DOM.

Don't you think it's a bit convenient that this happened one day after I published my findings ? ? ? ?

Can you say :bull crap:

Don't buy into their tricks yet again!!!! NON-USA DOM IS NOT BETTER THAN USA DOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TIMS89CRAWLER]

well now we have an idea of what DOM they are using or claim to be using anyways.....

[Jud]

Interesting.

I have TG DOM sliders, they are junk and dent soo easily. Their DOM doesn't even look like DOM to me. Mine looked like they had a swirl seam like a candycane. I was pretty disappointed with them.

[Dingman.]

I dented my TG sliders, dropping off onto a rock.  Not a big dent, but eh..

Better than the rockers.

[4RunnerChevy]

This is good stuff !  Thanks Mike.

I buy alot of steel and alloys, we stay away from Chinese Material, cause they cannot provide certification.  All steel, I buy, comes with certs, if not we ask for it, for liability reasons.  I will see if we can send some samples out for NDT and destructive testing, cause this whole thread has got me thinking, about what we take for granted.

[junya92toy]

You should run a test on square tube as well

[79coyotefrg]

I dented my TG sliders, dropping off onto a rock.  Not a big dent, but eh..

oh i cant stand it

[854RUN]

Awesome tech Mike!! I can clearly see the difference in the two just by looking at them side by side. I guess you could say that the U.S. steel starts off stronger from the get-go. Just a lot cleaner of a product as well (less impurity in the steel)

[TacoRunner]

Have I taught you nothing grasshopper.


Hello Magazine guy here. What do you need Mike???

[79coyotefrg]

   it didnt take long for "THEM" to start the attack   http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=60222.0

[tryn2Crawl]

I assume this is referring to TG products......here we go again.........I guess this AIN'T ever gonna end.......Everyone please quit the hatin' on one another please..It just looks desperate, thats all....


Anyone ever look at it from another point of view(non-wheeler perspective)?...Thats just childish if you ask me..

ONE MAY BITE YOU, BUT IF YOU BITE BACK, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD.....

[jonathan82toy]

I assume this is referring to TG products......here we go again.........I guess this AIN'T ever gonna end.......Everyone please quit the hatin' on one another please..It just looks desperate, thats all....


Anyone ever look at it from another point of view(non-wheeler perspective)?...Thats just childish if you ask me..

ONE MAY BITE YOU, BUT IF YOU BITE BACK, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD.....

Don't Deny the truth here. Its OK if you fell for the lies.... many people have.   

[BigMike]

I guess this AIN'T ever gonna end

It Ended.

[*FFC*]

I assume ......

That, my friend, is your first problem. The discussion here is regarding DOM and HREW steel tube.

Mike specifically referred to "Competitors", NOT Trail Gear or any other specific competitor (at least, not that I can find?). I believe he is referring to ANYONE who uses China (ETA: He did not refer to China, but foreign) made DOM tubing for their parts.

[BigMike]

The discussion here is regarding DOM and HREW steel tube.

Mike specifically referred to "Competitors", NOT Trail Gear or any other specific competitor

Thank you FFC, this is CORRECT.

I believe he is referring to ANYONE who uses China made DOM tubing for their parts.

I never mentioned where the competitor gets their DOM. I did mention to be careful with low grade DOM pretending to be more "dent resistant". As proven this is NOT true.

If you want to buy a DOM bumper, I HIGHLY recommend you look for a company who offers real certified USA DOM.

BigMike

[*FFC*]

Thank you FFC, this is CORRECT.


I never mentioned where the competitor gets their DOM. I did mention to be careful with low grade DOM pretending to be more "dent resistant". As proven this is NOT true.

If you want to buy a DOM bumper, I HIGHLY recommend you look for a company who offers real certified USA DOM.

BigMike

My apologies... I misused the term China - I should have used the term FOREIGN.

[BigMike]

ONE MAY BITE YOU, BUT IF YOU BITE BACK, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD.....

I agree with this, so instead of "biting back" with some stupid fake marketing lies, I did real testing on real machines using real materials and have presented real facts.

Anyone ever look at it from another point of view(non-wheeler perspective)?

Trust me, from an outsiders point of view, the competitor's claims are on real shaky grounds.

[*** YELLER ***]

I did real testing on real machines using real materials and have presented real facts.

So did I it was called MOONROCKS and it held up well.... as I did an Austin Powers my rear MARLIN bumper on a big freekin rock like 5 times trying to get unstuck and it held up well  thanks again Marlin and crew for a great product and thanks Blingin for getting me outa trouble...again

[junya92toy]

That swirl make in your sliders is from a sander. It was cleaned up from a weld to fill a pit or it was spliced to make a longer tube.

[79coyotefrg]

That swirl make in your sliders is from a sander. It was cleaned up from a weld to fill a pit or it was spliced to make a longer tube.

uh no, he's talking about a twisting swirl, like a barbers swirly sign thingy

which is a sign of really cheap steel

[Jud]

That swirl make in your sliders is from a sander. It was cleaned up from a weld to fill a pit or it was spliced to make a longer tube.

Wrong...

If you read correctly it said seam and not "mark"

uh no, he's talking about a twisting swirl, like a barbers swirly sign thingy

which is a sign of really cheap steel

Correct.

[COToy91]

Yup, the thread I posted on Pirates was moved to a hidden forum, and I received an email from CAMO to call him to discuss it.

According to Camo, I was "spamming" and it was not a tech article. He said he would give it an "F" grade for a tech article. I even edited the closing paragraph before I posted it by removing the references to buy our product.

He offered to move the thread to the vendors section but said that he thinks what I am doing is a very bad idea because I am, quote "fighting a public perception"  -- WELL PRECISELY!! THE TRUTH MUST BE KNOW THAT THERE IS A COMPANY SELLING SOFTER BUMPER MATERIAL MASQUERADING IT AS MORE DENT RESISTANT THAN OUR OWN!

He told me, quote "I think you are trying to swim upstream without a paddle", and he said "the war was getting started".
Yeah, the war I am looking for is to educate people!
We get COUNTLESS emails and phone calls asking why our Body Armor is not as strong as a competitor's DOM. Who knows this to be true? Has anyone ever bothered to test this claim until now?? It is a massive widespread misconception that when the competitor uses the term "DOM", it is some golden platter of instant dent resistance! And until now no tech article has proven this to be true or not!

So my article was moved to the Vendor section and is located here: http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803975 You can see how I downplayed the closing paragraph:

I would have to say this is perhaps the most unbiased article with the most substantiated claims I've ever written. I have been learning a lot in terms of how to post articles of this magnitude and I think it shows. It is well structured and organized, starts with a motivation and an abstract, and has a conclusion that supports the assumptions made.

I am going to cut this short to say alas, we really need to build a working relationship with Pirates as they are the largest forum for advertising, so I am not going to get into conspiracy over why this happened.

Camo said the discussion may be moved back to the Toyota - Truck and 4Runner tech forum but he wants someone other than me to create a new topic about it.

Kind Regards,
BigMike

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=804607

Anything else i can do?

[lbyota85]

Nice going! Its neat to see results like this. 

Now to play the devils advocate. 
What if the dent or rock slides on the seam of HREW tubing? VS Seamless DOM?

I don't doubt that your steel is stronger but just thought I would ask. Don't worry every piece of prefabbed steel on my truck is from marlin and thanks cause Ive given them a beating!

DOM tubing is made by rolling mild steel sheet and then welding the seam, then a mandrel is run through the center to accurately size the tubing and smooth the weld seam, The additional mechanical working adds strength to the tubing by "cold working". Also with an accurate wall thickness it is very uniform and predictible.

True seamless tubing is another matter. This is made by taking a billet of steel and piercing it with a "bullit shape" to form a tube. This is expensive tubing as you can imagine.

[TacoRunner]

I assume this is referring to TG products......here we go again.........I guess this AIN'T ever gonna end.......Everyone please quit the hatin' on one another please..It just looks desperate, thats all....

Anyone ever look at it from another point of view(non-wheeler perspective)?...Thats just childish if you ask me..

ONE MAY BITE YOU, BUT IF YOU BITE BACK, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD.....

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.


tryn2Crawl:
I really cant stand stupid people. If you believe the lies that TG tells you, then you're just the idiot that should buy their crap. You are on a Marlin Crawler forum, if you think for a second that MC supporters on here will side with anything that forked tounged devil has to say over at TG they you should go back to sticking your head in the sand. I cant believe that with all the TG bashing that has gone on here and at PBB that you would even consider buying that China crap. Take the name TG out of the equation for just a moment, why would you ever want to buy product that flat out sucks. I've been on their site plenty of times and nothing that they offer, either in their design nor their pricing is appealing. Cheap pricing, WOW good, go get yourself some good old fashion crappy product. Then you'll be that guy I laugh at for buying the cheapest stuff on the market, simply because you think its cool. I think the statement above needs repeating.

tryn2Crawl:
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

[COToy91]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.


tryn2Crawl:
I really cant stand stupid people. If you believe the lies that TG tells you, then you're just the idiot that should buy their crap. You are on a Marlin Crawler forum, if you think for a second that MC supporters on here will side with anything that forked tounged devil has to say over at TG they you
should go back to sticking your head in the sand. I cant believe that with all the TG bashing that has gone on here and at PBB that you would even consider buy that China crap. Take the name TG out of the equation for just a moment, why would you ever want to buy product that flat out sucks. I've been on their site plenty of times and nothing that they offer, either in their design nor their pricing is appealing. Cheap pricing, WOW good, go get yourself some good old fashion crappy product. Then you'll be that guy I laugh at for buying the cheapest stuff on the market, simply because you think its cool. I think the statement above needs repeating.

tryn2Crawl:
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

[TacoRunner]

And I dont even care if thats over the top, dont come to this site and try to make it sould that its MarlinCrawler being the childish one. They started it, MC will end it.

[TacoRunner]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=804607

Anything else i can do?

Camo removed it from its location, possilby deleted it.

[tryn2Crawl]

Admit it or not.We all know if TG mentions about a competitors product,and same with Marlin, they are definitely "REFERRING" to each other..Just because the "Name" is not mentioned( legal issues) doesn't mean  hey both ain't still trying to make one another look bad.True or not about whatever product that may be mentioned, I don't know..But we know the attack and dirty looks among each other is still there......

And if you do not see that then YOU my friend is blind!.....You see all the hating going on here..Do you?...Theres more Hate on here about TG that I can find VS the TG forum...Not liking a product is one thing but to hate then talk smack and FOLLOW OTHERS is just plain stupid....Regardless from either fan customers...

[vikingsven]

Calling someone out on their BS has nothing to do with "hate" or " talking". If a vendor claims something that doesn't seem legit, hell, even if it does, it is our duty as a consumer to ask questions about it. I have plenty of questions about BigMike's findings in this thread as a matter of fact... I don't see exactly how a material being harder equates to it not denting as easily as a less-hard material. ??

With that said, if TG offered an original product made out of quality materials and craftsmenship, I'd bet people's response to them would be different. However, I haven't seen anything that meets that criteria as of yet, and they claim to have the best product out there.

Last and not least. It is my opinion that Camo is extremely arrogant and I don't like the way he "moderates". Maybe in person he's a cool dude, but online he sucks. On the internet perception is reality, and it is my perception that he, and many other mods on pirate show favortism towards certain vendors. Their inability to maintain order and let people speak without deleting threads, threating the band hammer, or running around telling everyone how stupid they are becasue they don't know all the facts, when they won't share them, is simply retarted. Its a complete ego trip. That is why I don't, and will never again, pay for a red star. /rant off