what to do

[toyodaaddict]

the story is i bought my 84 toyota pickup (carburated) for way to much $$ i was finaly ready to order my gears and locker when of coarse the truck started running like (its my DD). since i regreat not holding out for an 85 efi toyota im trying to decide if i should take the loss and sell the 84  and buy the 85 efi or just stick with what i got.  im fairly new to the toyota game and i just wanted to get the thoughts of some one with more experience

[ajordan1975]

keep it and go w/ a 2.7 from a taco.....   

[79coyotefrg]

how much do you have in the truck already??  can you break even if you sell it??

[abnormaltoy]

Can you just convert that truck to efi?

[whokrz]

2 votes on the 3rz

[brainlessfool]

3 for 3RZ

[BLACKDOG]

I'd keep it and fix it.  Its a great learning experience, and you'll stop being new to the yota experience quick if you dig into one deep enough.  Its not a good idea of getting into the habit of selling a rig when its broken.  There are enough experienced people on here that can give you plenty of help with good descriptions and pictures as you dig into it, and start to narrow down the problem.

[Snowtoy]

I would keep it, the 22r is a simple engine to work on, even for a novice, the carb is probably the most technical thing on the engine.  If you sell it now as it is you will definitely loose more money on the rig.

What are the issues, and what is the mileage?
Do you know how to do a compression check, or valve adjustment? 

Running poorly could be anything from a simple fix to a rebuild.

I once picked up a stock '86 SR5 4-Runner for $1000.  The PO was told it needed an engine rebuild because of 0psi comp on the #4 cyl, I adjusted the valves and the comp shot right up to 165psi.  I cleaned it up and turned around and sold it for it for $4500.   

If you do decide to rebuild it and can do the work yourself or have someone to help you, you can rebuild the whole thing for under $500(including some machine work).

Once rebuilt you could easily swap it over to efi for about $200 when. 

Or look for a wrecked 2wd or 4x w/efi and swap over the motor/ecu/fuel tank for about the same price as rebuilding your current 22r.  Check craigslist for your area, you can usually find good deals there.

[Rocksurfer]

Eh, screw putting buckets of $ into your wheeler, fix and run what you have. Of course I do everything on the cheap.

[toyodaaddict]

how much do you have in the truck already??  can you break even if you sell it??

i have about $4100 into it.i payed $3200 for the truck and didnt even make it home before the tranny went out.i got ripped bad! i think with all the work ive put into it i could probobly get $2800 for it. the reason im considering selling is that its carburated and it dies on really steep hills and i dont think i have the ability to do the efi swap

[toyotanner]

i'd say go propane but thats me.

[toyodaaddict]

I would keep it, the 22r is a simple engine to work on, even for a novice, the carb is probably the most technical thing on the engine.  If you sell it now as it is you will definitely loose more money on the rig.

What are the issues, and what is the mileage?
Do you know how to do a compression check, or valve adjustment? 

Running poorly could be anything from a simple fix to a rebuild.

I once picked up a stock '86 SR5 4-Runner for $1000.  The PO was told it needed an engine rebuild because of 0psi comp on the #4 cyl, I adjusted the valves and the comp shot right up to 165psi.  I cleaned it up and turned around and sold it for it for $4500.  

If you do decide to rebuild it and can do the work yourself or have someone to help you, you can rebuild the whole thing for under $500(including some machine work).

Once rebuilt you could easily swap it over to efi for about $200 when. 

Or look for a wrecked 2wd or 4x w/efi and swap over the motor/ecu/fuel tank for about the same price as rebuilding your current 22r.  Check craigslist for your area, you can usually find good deals there.

i think the problom might be an easy fix i just cant figure out what needs fixin.i think the problem might be in the sensors/emissions,the carb or maybe electrical.the truck idles ruff sometimes it idles down to like 150 rpm and dies or pickes back up,it lets out rumbling backfires while going down hill and it diesels when i shut it off.like i say im new to all this my dad helps me out alot but neither of us are master mechanics if ya know what i mean

[abnormaltoy]

Sounds like timing to me, or maybe a worn out distribinator.

[Snowtoy]

It is likely a few simple fixes, not just one, also there isn't much in the way of sensors, and if it is federal you don't/shouldn't even have an O2 sensor(if you do it would be on the exhaust manifold).  I would start w/a complete tune-up, i.e., spark plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor, a valve adjustment, and check/adjust the timing.  It is really simple to adjust the valves, all you need is a wrench, screw driver, a set of feeler gauges, and a manual to follow.  There are on-line manuals available, but even the Haynes/Chilton one is good enough to help you do a valve adjustment and check/adjust the timing.  A compression check would be helpful, but not necessary at this time.

IIRC, the dieseling when turned off sounds like it is likely an issue with the carb, like the butterfly valve isn't closing enough, which may also be an issue w/idling.  It has been a long time since I worked w/a carb, so someone else should be able to give you some more help.

$3200 isn't a bad price depending on when you bought the truck and where you live.  Toyota 4x4's were a lot like the housing market up until about a mid-'07.  Being $4200 into it now is going to make it awfully hard to justify walking away from it, especially when you are only about $500 away from an efi swap(including motor if you find the right deal)

With the 22r, you really don't have to be Master mechanics, it is one of the simplest engines to learn on, all you need is a good manual, a basic set of metric hand tools, and a few specialty ones like feeler gauges, torque wrenches, timing light, etc., and of course patience.  It is also a goo practice to take pics before you remove something so you have a visual reference to use when you go to put things back together, and keeping the bolt patterns correct, Toyota likes to use different size bolts on the same piece depending where the part goes.  If you are going to delve into the truck more than a simple tune-up you will definitely want to download one of the manuals.

If you are planning to go wheeling w/your rig, or use it just to go hunting/camping knowing how it works and how to fix it is as necessary as bringing the right clothes and food etc,.  While most wheelers are always willing to lend a hand, your trail experience will be a lot better if you are able to at least try to fix your own stuff, and you have your own tools.

In its current condition it is unlikely that you would get $1500 for it, let alone $2800.  Personally I wouldn't pay more than $1000 given the running condition and then only that much if the rest of it was clean inside and out.  Even if you had gears and lockers in it already you wouldn't get more than $1500.  I think your best bet would be to do the tune-up, and go from there.

I know it seems like you are starting to through good money after bad, but even if you were to sell it for $2800, you don't have any guarantee that if you find an '85 w/efi it wont end up costing you money to fix it after you buy it either.

[germ]

Been a while since I've had a carb'd truck too, but your erratic idle and backfiring sounds like 1. Timing and 2. vacuum leak. I'd personally follow snowtoy's advice, do a good tune up and see what happens. if you continue to have the erratic idle, easy way to check is to take a damp rag (not gas), and put it over the top of the carb. If it dies, then your vacuum is good. if it keeps running (even stumbling), then you've got a vacuum leak somewhere.

Personally, I think you have a great platform to start with. I'd guarantee you that nobody on this board started as a master mechanic or a Toyota guru. We've all learned a lot over the years by asking questions, getting in over our heads, and generally just tinkering until we've got it figured out. One rule I've learned about 4x4's is that you do it 'cause you love it, not 'cause you think you'll get your money back out of it. It may seem like your dumping good money after bad, but think about the money you're saving by not having a 200+/month payment, and the insurance on a new vehicle. (the way I figure it, even with the 12K I've got invested in my 85 4runner, I'm still about 20K ahead cause of base price and what it would cost to get something newer built the way I want it).

Unless your just not happy with the vehicle, and your really hankering for something different, I'd just work on and slowly build what you got. Again, it's a great platform. We'll help you with just about any question you may have, and I'd bet you that most all your questions have already been asked, and answered. Just gotta search a bit.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Erik

[toyodaaddict]

well im not having very good luck.i did a comp test and my #1-#3 cylinders are between 165 and 170 but the dern #4 is at 135 . i also did the valves and now the engines got a tick  i dont know how i could of screwed that up i did just as the book sied step by step.i guess ill try again tomorrow.

[Snowtoy]

The tick is likely from one of the valves being a little loose, or the screw backed off when you tightened them down.  The adjustment screw will get a flat spot worn into it over time, and the valve hitting the the adjustment screw can turn the screw back to the original position, resulting ion tapping valves also.  You could have also over tightened the valve cover and the cam is hitting it, IIIRC proper torque is 13ftlbs.  At any rate it isn't a big deal, you can adjust them again, and see how it goes, or you may need to replace the screws(dealer only item of course).  Each time you do the adjustment it gets easier and quicker to do.

Did you check the valves prior to adjustment, any really loose or tight?
Did you set the valves warm or cold?, what did you set them at?  You can set them cold at 7 intake and 10(or 11) on the exhaust side.  The problem with setting them with the engine hot(besides dealing w/them being hot), is that usually by the time you get to the last valves the engine has cooled off quite a bit from when you starting, which can result in different values, and valve tic.  A lot of us set them cold, using 7 for the intake and 10(or 11) for the exhaust rather than the 8 and 12 as the manual states.  You should recheck them when warm just to make sure non of the valves has expanded more than it should have.

Did you recheck the comp after the adjustment, any change? 
The range is pretty good for 1-3, it is a bit unlikely that the #4 wore that much to be so far off.

[toyodaaddict]

The tick is likely from one of the valves being a little loose, or the screw backed off when you tightened them down.  The adjustment screw will get a flat spot worn into it over time, and the valve hitting the the adjustment screw can turn the screw back to the original position, resulting ion tapping valves also.  You could have also over tightened the valve cover and the cam is hitting it, IIIRC proper torque is 13ftlbs.  At any rate it isn't a big deal, you can adjust them again, and see how it goes, or you may need to replace the screws(dealer only item of course).  Each time you do the adjustment it gets easier and quicker to do.

Did you check the valves prior to adjustment, any really loose or tight?
Did you set the valves warm or cold?, what did you set them at?  You can set them cold at 7 intake and 10(or 11) on the exhaust side.  The problem with setting them with the engine hot(besides dealing w/them being hot), is that usually by the time you get to the last valves the engine has cooled off quite a bit from when you starting, which can result in different values, and valve tic.  A lot of us set them cold, using 7 for the intake and 10(or 11) for the exhaust rather than the 8 and 12 as the manual states.  You should recheck them when warm just to make sure non of the valves has expanded more than it should have.

Did you recheck the comp after the adjustment, any change? 
The range is pretty good for 1-3, it is a bit unlikely that the #4 wore that much to be so far off.

ok today i rechecked the compression and all cylinders wher between 175 and 180,thank god.yesterday i only checked it before the valve adjustment.i did check the valves before i adjusted them all the intakes wher to tight and 2 of the exhaust where loose and i adjusted them while warm.you where right i over tightend the valve cover,loosend it up a bit and the tick went away.today i also did plugs,cap,and roter.the miss has calmed down a little bit but other than that nothing has changed, it still idles eratically and everything else i dont know what to do. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out

[Snowtoy]

Good work, you are making headway and eliminating some of the bigger issues cost wise for very little money.  The comp numbers show that the block and heads appear good, and with the cap/rotor new plugs and wires you have eliminated the electrical side. 

Have you been able to check the timing yet?

Once that is known, we are left with what was probably the issue from the start, the carb.  The erratic idle could be a vacuum leak, and the dieseling could be the float not fully closing, unfortunately it has been a long time(about 20yrs) since I have done any carb work, other than swap one out/ replace an air check valve(CA emissions), so I am not going to be a lot of help.

Fixing the carb wont be that big of an issue, either through rebuilding it, buying a used one from a member here, a wrecking yard, or a rebuilt from a parts store.  If you are planning about doing a EFI swap down the road, you wont want to upgrade to an after market carb for cost purposes.

I would check the timing and repost hereToyota Pickup/4Runner Tech 79-95.  Make sure you explain the erratic idle(if any driveability issues), the dieseling when shutting it off, and what you have done so far, so people don't advise you to do the things you have already done.  You have come quite a ways since your first post, and reposting w/new topic should get you the help you need.

[toyodaaddict]

Good work, you are making headway and eliminating some of the bigger issues cost wise for very little money.  The comp numbers show that the block and heads appear good, and with the cap/rotor new plugs and wires you have eliminated the electrical side. 

Have you been able to check the timing yet?

Once that is known, we are left with what was probably the issue from the start, the carb.  The erratic idle could be a vacuum leak, and the dieseling could be the float not fully closing, unfortunately it has been a long time(about 20yrs) since I have done any carb work, other than swap one out/ replace an air check valve(CA emissions), so I am not going to be a lot of help.

Fixing the carb wont be that big of an issue, either through rebuilding it, buying a used one from a member here, a wrecking yard, or a rebuilt from a parts store.  If you are planning about doing a EFI swap down the road, you wont want to upgrade to an after market carb for cost purposes.

I would check the timing and repost hereToyota Pickup/4Runner Tech 79-95.  Make sure you explain the erratic idle(if any driveability issues), the dieseling when shutting it off, and what you have done so far, so people don't advise you to do the things you have already done.  You have come quite a ways since your first post, and reposting w/new topic should get you the help you need.

the timing was the first thing i checked when i started having problems,it was off by 2 degrees so i corrected it other than maybe a very small power increase it didnt change anything.i am interested in aftermarket carbs mostly to do away with all the confusing emissions stuff but i dont know wich carb is right for me the places i wheel require climbing long very steep hills.maybe someday ill try  the efi conversion but probably not any time soon.anyway i guess ill start a new post in pickup/4runner tech. thanks for all the great help

[Snowtoy]

A buddy of mine ran a webber carb a few years ago, and he did fine on hill climbs.  The issue was wasn't keeping it running, it was getting it started again when it stalled. 

If you go w/a webber, this How to make a weber climb a hill. post may be helpful.  I know they make carb's designed for better performance off road for V8's, but I am not sure if anyone makes one for the imports.

[toyodaaddict]

A buddy of mine ran a webber carb a few years ago, and he did fine on hill climbs.  The issue was wasn't keeping it running, it was getting it started again when it stalled. 

If you go w/a webber, this How to make a weber climb a hill. post may be helpful.  I know they make carb's designed for better performance off road for V8's, but I am not sure if anyone makes one for the imports.

ive seen this but im kinda nervouse about spending $300 on a carb and then drilling holes in it but maybe its the way to go

[abnormaltoy]

You could always go the Holley 4bbl and Offy intake route. 

[Plekto]

Do the webber mod.  Keep the truck.  Better to have parts you KNOW are good in it than to start this all over again.