Wow what a bail out

[Blingn]

Do these companies that are getting help deserve it?  If a chevy that you bought was to break down would these companies say "oh that is ok just bring it in and we will give you a new one."  I say cut the big wigs paychecks that make millions a year and they need to figure out their own problems.   :bull crap: 

I really don't think this will help a thing

http://www.sacbee.com/838/story/1486188.html

[Wermz84]

Stuff pisses me off.  I hope they made them at least sell their fleet of private jets.

[Toymin8r]

Even if you cut the executives pay you are still only gonna save a few million.    The biggest problem is overall labor costs being paid to the workers.   For instance, The average employee at GM costs $70 per hour.  This includes salary, health benefits, etc.   By comparison Toyota's workers only cost them $48 per hour.   Even with the bailout if the Unions don't agree to some sort of pay or benefit cut the Automakers will be in the same boat in 6 months.   

[Tice]

I think Toyota or Honda or any other car company, that knows how to make money, buy them out. Get rid of the union, if a worker can't live on 48 bucks an hour then too bad.  If it wouldn't hurt so many familys that work the the big three I'd say let 'em go under. Serves 'em right for being so damn greedy and having piss poor managment!!!!!

[Rocksurfer]

The problem is the U.A.W. union, they are slowly strangling the industry.

[jimbo74]

ford isn't part of the big  3 bailout.... why cant the other 2 follow suit?

[BLACKDOG]

ford isn't part of the big  3 bailout.... why cant the other 2 follow suit?

Ford is just as involved in the bailout.  They're hurting too, they just had reserve funds so they don't need the monetary use of it right now.  The bailout isn't just about cash, its also about converting debt into stocks, altering the union contracts, etc.  Don't kid yourself about ford.  Just because they haven't taken any money doesn't mean they're not part of it.

[germ]

I just wish the congress had argued and fought as hard about the bank bail outs as they did about the auto industry funds.
Seems they are taking a much harder line on the auto industry than they did with the banks. I'm not saying they shouldn't take the hard-line approach, but that they should do so with the banking/lending industry as well. Last I heard was that some of the banks are using the "bailout" money to pay for employee bonuses.

If they are going to socialize these industries, then we (the people who are footing the bill) should get some say in what is going on. We should be seeing some benefit from this. I have not seen much increase in lending, or decrease in intrest rates to suggest that all this public money is actually doing anything to stimulate the economy.

This doesn't sound like we're done with this one yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/10/news/economy/january_agenda/index.htm?postversion=2008121009

If Congress and President Bush agree to offer General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC $15 billion in bridge loans to get them through early 2009, lawmakers will be keeping close tabs on the automakers' financial health.

If the companies successfully adhere to the terms of the loan - which would force them to make tough decisions to foster long-term viability - lawmakers will need to start thinking about the next steps in their efforts to aid the companies. Economist Mark Zandi testified last week that it may require between $75 billion and $125 billion to keep the companies in business for the long-term.

If they don't, then lawmakers will need to address what economists and others have been warning could be the fallout should GM or Chrysler go under: a spike in the jobless rate and a steep reduction in income tax and auto sales tax revenue

Erik

[germ]

Obama has promised to put a mortgage-relief plan in place, although he hasn't specified what that plan will look like yet.

To get congressional support, "we believe the Obama administration will get the final $350 billion by endorsing the FDIC mortgage modification program," said financial services analyst Jaret Seiberg of the Stanford Group, a policy research firm.

That program -- estimated to cost just $25 billion and to help 1.5 million homeowners -- would be similar to a loan modification program initiated at IndyMac after the FDIC became the bank's conservator this summer. But there would be added incentives for servicers to modify more loans, such as a government promise to help pay servicers' modification costs and guarantee half of the losses that occur should borrower re-default on the modified loan.

Just found this at http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/10/news/economy/january_agenda/index.htm?postversion=2008121009

Hmmmm, going to cost $25 BILLION to help 1.5 Million? Ummmmm does that even make sense? So doing the math, it comes to about $16,667.67 per person. So why should my tax dollars be spent to bail out someone who probably had no buisness getting a loan for an outragously priced home in the first place, when they had no way of legitimatly affording it, and shouldn't have been able to get into this trouble to begin with?

Along those same lines, why should I as a tax payer have to bail out any industry when they're buisness practices set them up for failure from the start? When the bounty was plentiful, you didn't see them stock piling for the "leaner" times, rather you could see them gloating in their excess. Now when times are lean, they hold their hands out with sad, tearfull puppy dog eyes and ask for the government (which really means you and me) to "bail them out". I raise the bull crap flag on this.

I have no issue with paying my taxes to subsidize roads, public safety, schools (although this is somewhat questionable too), and local and national defense. I have serious issues when the government starts to "socialize" any private industry, because that is a very slippery slope. We cannot hope to socialize our way back into prosperity. We will continue to "tax" ourselves into increasing debt and servitude.

Look at good ol Cali, we're essentially broke (really have been for some time, just refused to admit it till now). The best our elected leaders can do is cut spending on the people who have the least ability to defend themselves (kids, elderly and mentally challenged), and increase taxation on the ones who are already paying over 65% of the states income. (they also hold onto some unrealistic gimicks which will ultimatly be smoke and mirrors).

OK, I'm done ranting now. Just wish our elected officials would really represent what the elecorate would really want, and make some of those very difficult, but needed decisions that will help us get back on our feet.

Erik

[BLACKDOG]

Damn my parents for giving me a sense of financial responsibility, which caused me to buy a house within my price range. 


If only I had known... 

[germ]

Yea, you could have bought a home worth 250K for 400K and told the govt to bail you out and owed essentially nothing!

Erik

[Toymin8r]

Just read a few statistics I thought I would share.   GM currently had 96,000 employees.  They are paying health insurance for 1,000,000.

Over tha last 3 years Toyota and Honda had an average profit of $1600.00 per vehicle sold.   Over the same time period the big three, GM, Ford and Chrysler had an average loss of $500.00 per vehicle.  The majority of this difference is labor costs.

Unless that changes the bailout ain't gonne mean squat.

[germ]

Heard on the radio today that Toyota is starting to bleed as well. Not sure how bad it is, but seems the economy is an equal opportunity beast.

Erik

[Rocksurfer]

The difference there though is Toyota is just starting to bleed where as GM has been bleeding for years. I think it would be expected for most of the auto industry to bleed a little right now, and this is why GM is about bled out.

[BLACKDOG]

Heard on the radio today that Toyota is starting to bleed as well. Not sure how bad it is, but seems the economy is an equal opportunity beast.

Erik

  first quarter w/o profits in 70 years, something like that.

[jrock]

This is weird. I thought the market was suppose to control itself? If a company can't hang, they lost. By keeping bad businesses in the game... don't we all pay for it? Survival of the fittest. 

[BLACKDOG]

This is weird. I thought the market was suppose to control itself? If a company can't hang, they lost. By keeping bad businesses in the game... don't we all pay for it? Survival of the fittest. 

This has been a long time in the making.  When imports really started getting big over here in the late 70's and early '80s, they were a better product, so the big three went crying to the federal govt.  Thats the main reason there are so many cool vehicles in other countries that never made it over here, like the diesel toyota pickups.  yes, I know there are some here, but very few.  The govt imposed taxes, emissions restrictions, etc. to protect the big three, and allow them to continue making vehicles that weren't as reliable as the imports, because they could.  Now, 30 years later, thats finally come back to bite them in the and the govt is still trying to protect them.  If they had just left them alone way back when, ford/chevy/dodge would have had to sink or swim, we may have lost one or two or three, or all three might have still been around producing some awesome vehicles. 

[Rocksurfer]

This has been a long time in the making.  When imports really started getting big over here in the late 70's and early '80s, they were a better product, so the big three went crying to the federal govt.  Thats the main reason there are so many cool vehicles in other countries that never made it over here, like the diesel toyota pickups.  yes, I know there are some here, but very few.  The govt imposed taxes, emissions restrictions, etc. to protect the big three, and allow them to continue making vehicles that weren't as reliable as the imports, because they could.  Now, 30 years later, thats finally come back to bite them in the and the govt is still trying to protect them.  If they had just left them alone way back when, ford/chevy/dodge would have had to sink or swim, we may have lost one or two or three, or all three might have still been around producing some awesome vehicles. 

This statement does not only relate to the auto industry, there are hundreds of different industries that got to play the same game with foreign competitors. Not only do they produce a better product but do it for less money and sell it to us for less. I am not against unions but as far as I can see most of the problems stem from them, I wonder when the next contract talks are should be interesting. Plus with all these federal regulations the big 3 got behind, sorta put it on the back burner so now they are trying to play catch up. Buying all those smog credits to say they were clean while companies like Toyota just developed new supposed clean cars with marginal results worked for them and didn't just put off the inevitable. Instead of buying all that smog credit they should have invested in their future with that money.

[BLACKDOG]

This statement does not only relate to the auto industry, there are hundreds of different industries that got to play the same game with foreign competitors. Not only do they produce a better product but do it for less money and sell it to us for less. I am not against unions but as far as I can see most of the problems stem from them, I wonder when the next contract talks are should be interesting. Plus with all these federal regulations the big 3 got behind, sorta put it on the back burner so now they are trying to play catch up. Buying all those smog credits to say they were clean while companies like Toyota just developed new supposed clean cars with marginal results worked for them and didn't just put off the inevitable. Instead of buying all that smog credit they should have invested in their future with that money.

 

[germ]

After reading a bit more about it, I see that Toyota is wounded, not because of their failure to improve, but just by the fact that the economy is shrinking, and people are just not buying vehicles right now. Seems they are going to shut down the Tundra plant for a while, but will make some other changes as well.

Erik