Topic: School me on MR2's

[Tice]

My boss is giving me one if I want it. Been sitting for 3 years but all the tires are still up, haven't  been able to look at it close yet.  Not sure of the year either, mid to late 80's from what I can tell. Good cars?  Any inout on this?

[Duffil]

mos def grab it.  I don't know a ton, but a friend had one that I had to work on for him.  Most of them are 4AGE powered IIRC, and you can get loads of power out of them.  PM BigMike...he is Mr. MR2. 

get a closer look maybe take some pics and let us see it.

[crawlerdan]

ive owned one-good cars, resonable fast and will take a ton of upgrades.

free is the best price man-fix it and resell!!

[BUDDERS]

Get it!  They are fast, fun to drive and dependable.  The only bad thing is that the timing belts are a PITA to do.

[red]

fun car to drive, good on fuel and reliable. my mom had a 92 manual, only problem we ever had was when i broke the shifter linkage and got stuck in 4th gear.

[Tice [OP]]

Thanks for the info, got to look at it today for a few minutes, it's an 85, 5 speed, FI. 165,000 plus on the OD. needs paint bad and has a small dent in the rear next to the tail light. Apparently it needs a fuel pump. The only bad thing about the whole deal is I have to file for an abanduned title. The owner brought it to the shop over two years ago and decided she didn't want it and left town. 


What the chances that motor could be swapped into a 4x4?

[Duffil]

i don't think you would want to...it's a rev-happy engine.

[BigMike]

What the chances that motor could be swapped into a 4x4?

I've seen this done many times in Suzuki Samurai's and some buggies, but never in a full bodied Hilux. The good thing about this swap is that the AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S uses the same engine as the MR2, and as we all know it uses a W50/52 2WD transmission which uses the same exact bolt patter as the Hilux G52/54 and W56 (and even the Tacoma W59).

So bolting a Marlin Crawler Dual Ultimate behind a 4A engine is all bolt-on

If I ever build myself a buggy, I dog-gone-guarantee you it will be powered by a 1.6l 4A-GZE from an AE92 Toyota Corolla Levin GT-S from Japan: 165 ft-lbs of torque from 1.6 liters = 103 ft-lbs TQ PER LITER -- BONE STOCK. Compare that to the 22R-E (140 ft-lb) Hilux engine, which is ONLY 58 ft-lbs TQ per liter, which many consider to be a "good torquey engine". Then slap on a larger 12 psi pulley and throw some Kamakazee Kams and a TED header and your be looking at 250+ TQ from a very, very small lightweight package with a 8,000 RPM redline. I certainly will never underestimate a well built GZE engine. GET IT!

it's an 85, 5 speed, FI. 165,000 plus on the OD. needs paint bad and has a small dent in the rear next to the tail light. Apparently it needs a fuel pump. The only bad thing about the whole deal is I have to file for an abanduned title. The owner brought it to the shop over two years ago and decided she didn't want it and left town.

Sounds like an absolute keeper. Sounds like the radio antenna comes out of your A-pillar on the roof, sounds like you have a steel air duct on the passengers side engine bay, sounds like your spoiler does not have a brake light in it, sounds like the front bumper is "flat nosed", sounds like the seats are the rare two tone, sounds like it has the old-school climate controls with the automatic climate control only available in 1985-86, and sounds like the body trim does not match the ground effect trim.

Find out if it is a GT-S "Unlimited" version. If so then it will have sway bars front and rear, which is the only MK1 MR2 with this feature.

The plus side to the early 1985-86 MR2s were that they are the lightest MR2 ever manufactured. If it is a hard top (no moon roof) then you have the base for an unstoppable track car. I'm talking 1600 lbs with 300+ HP. That will easily rival 500+ HP production cars on the track. And MR2s are great for lots of power because the chassis has 3 firewalls which provide a lot of structural rigidity with plenty of room for cage work.

The downside to the early 85-86 models are that they have the weakest MR2 transaxle ever used (the C50) and they have the smallest brakes ever used (1" smaller rotors than 87-89 version). Even worse, the smaller rotors ride on smaller spindles with smaller wheel bearings. Of course if you are looking for lots of power, you would immediately upgrade to the E-series supercharger transaxle (E56) (JDM versions come stock LSD-equipped) or use a 6-speed variant (C160) from Japan/Europe. These use larger and heavier axles with larger spindles and wheel bearings in the rear.

I don't have much time to chat about MR2s now. It's been so long since I have this is really bringing back very fond memories.

If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to buy, check if it has a rear sway bar (rare), make sure the A/C is working (the A/C for that small cab is AMAZING I would have to turn it off on 100-degree days, plus there are air vents below the column that shoot ice cold air straight up your short legs and give your boys a great chill Also since the condenser is so far from the A/C (in the front of the vehicle), all this makes the A/C on the 1st gen MR2 extremely efficient), upgrade the rear brakes to vented calipers and rotors, swap in a 87-89 C52 transaxle, move the battery to the front trunk, and you would have a sa-weet little car that'll get you 35 MPG depending on how you drive.

Ohhh those were the days

BigMike

[BigMike]

Whoops, forgot some links!

Here is my SUPER OLD and retired MR2 website:
http://bigmike.marlincrawler.com

Here is my MR2 in it's highest glory days, circa 2002:
http://bigmike.marlincrawler.com/stage2_5/index.html

And if you want to get serious about 4A performance, I suggest none lesser than:
http://www.tedcomponents.com (custom cams, custom headers, multi-disc clutch conversions, etc)

BigMike

[Tice [OP]]

You da man BigMike!! I don't care what all these other guys say!!!!  

Lots of helpful info. I think I will be bringing this bad boy home.

[te51levin]

Get it!  They are fast, fun to drive and dependable.  The only bad thing is that the timing belts are a PITA to do.

On a MkI (1985-1989 first gen, aka AW11) they're not bad at all.  MkII (second gen, 1991-1995, aka SW20 [Turbo] and SW21 [NA]) are tougher to do a timing belt on but still not impossible if you have a little time and can think creatively.

...it's an 85, 5 speed...Apparently it needs a fuel pump. ...What the chances that motor could be swapped into a 4x4?

'85 is the best year IMO.  I like the look of the black bumpers and rub strips better than the color matched stuff that later years have.  It also gets the auto climate control and front and rear sway bars.  Make sure it's the fuel pump and not the circuit opening relay that is causing problems; people love to point at the fuel pump any time they see a lack of fuel, but it's not that simple, and dropping the tank is no fun.

4AGEs are great sports car engines, but I would not want one in a 4x4.  They are rather weedy down low and need to be revved to make decent forward progress.


BigMike, your car looks beautiful, and it you did a hell of a job on that engine build (nice job combining the SC with the NA intake manifold!), but I have to correct several things you said here.  I don't claim to be a wizard, but I do own an '85 myself, making around 170 horsepower without a supercharger, and I spend a good portion of my day selling MR2 parts to people all around the US and the rest of the world.  Let's just say I'm fairly familiar with them.

The good thing about this swap is that the AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S uses the same engine as the MR2, and as we all know it uses a W50/52 2WD transmission which uses the same exact bolt patter as the Hilux G52/54 and W56 (and even the Tacoma W59).

So bolting a Marlin Crawler Dual Ultimate behind a 4A engine is all bolt-on .

Negative on that.  The A-series engine never got a W-series box mated to it.  They were all T50s, which are pretty fragile at high power levels and nothing like a W or G series, and never used in any 4WD aplication that I'm aware of.  There are custom bellhousings available out of NZ that will mate an A-series to a W5x, but they're obviously not factory Toyota parts.

Find out if it is a GT-S "Unlimited" version. If so then it will have sway bars front and rear, which is the only MK1 MR2 with this feature.

Geetawhowhatnow?  Never heard of such a thing.  Japan had a few goofy short run special edition versions (G-Limited, Black Limited, etc), but the US never got anything like that.  All '85 and all supercharged MkIs have a rear sway bar.

The downside to the early 85-86 models are that they have the weakest MR2 transaxle ever used (the C50) and they have the smallest brakes ever used (1" smaller rotors than 87-89 version). Even worse, the smaller rotors ride on smaller spindles with smaller wheel bearings. Of course if you are looking for lots of power, you would immediately upgrade to the E-series supercharger transaxle (E56) (JDM versions come stock LSD-equipped) or use a 6-speed variant (C160) from Japan/Europe. These use larger and heavier axles with larger spindles and wheel bearings in the rear.

C50s are not fantastic, but will hold up with proper maintenance.  My C50 still works pretty well and it's never been apart.  The most common issue is fifth gear pop-out, which can be addressed.  '85-'86 brakes are small, but adequate for a street car that isn't frequently pushed hard.  However, your comment about smaller spindles and bearings is just plain incorrect - someone must have slipped you some bum information.  All MkIs use the exact same hubs and wheel bearings.  C160s use the same axles as the C50, but you're correct that E-series trannies do use heavier axles.  The hubs and bearings remain the same as all other MkIs though.

[BigMike]

yup, now I got schooled. Leave the sport for 5 yrs and look what happens

I could have sworn it was a W50.. I bet my "source" knows it's not even. Regarding the spindles, I had a set of 86 slotted rotors that, as I recall, did not fit over my rear hub (not just it being a smaller diameter).

You are obviously in this more than I am, nice My buddy keeps bugging me to rebuild my MR2 (I still have it outside with a tarp over it) but I'm not ready to do so yet.

I blew up 3rd gear first in my C52, then quickly lost all forward gears except for 1st and 5th. I never ran the E56 despite it's strength benefits. The last transaxle I used was a C56 from a AE89 that I modified for mid engine shifting. I really liked the closer 2nd and 3rd ratios


BigMike

[rockturtle]

hey big mike i have a 85 yota Corolla gts with a 4agec witch i hear has 127 hp stock do u think i can swap it with my 22r can it work

[kneedownnate]

4AGEs are great sports car engines, but I would not want one in a 4x4.  They are rather weedy down low and need to be revved to make decent forward progress.

  They'll get out of their own way on the bottom, barely.  My 85 was sluggish on top so it pretty much was gutless all over   

[rockturtle]

ie put this one past 120 mph its good in the hi end but  im wondering on low end 4 a 1.6l its not bad

[te51levin]

hey big mike i have a 85 yota Corolla gts with a 4agec witch i hear has 127 hp stock do u think i can swap it with my 22r can it work

It's rated at 112bhp (assuming it's a US car).  If you have the car, keep it intact.  That engine's no good for a truck.  If you are thinking of going the other way and putting a 22R in your AE86, don't do that either - a 22R is not a good engine for an AE86.  If you don't like the AE86, put it on Craigslist or eBay.  They are popular enough that someone else will want it!

[BigMike]

rockturtle, I was wrong regarding the ease of transmission swap. te51levin cleared that up

I would never consider a 4A-GE for Rock Crawling. What I would consider in a light buggy setup is a 4A-GZE (Supercharged), but not for its ability to "lug" but for its ability to GET IT from such a small package.

A 4A in a full bodied Hilux, yeah, I'll stick to the 3RZ's