lug nut trouble

[12GA.YOTA]

p/o put some of those special lug nuts that takes a specific key to take off but I don't have the key, they are on all of the lugs 24 of them dose any body know an easy way of getting these off, I heard you can hammer a socket to them but I don't want to loose 24 sockets. these lug nuts are round with grooves cut into them in different places so only that key can grab it. any thing could help thanks

[kneedownnate]

Take it to a tire shop.

[skipnrocks]

Do you remember where you bought the lugnuts from, I understand that each company would have a standard key, with the exception of maybe some of the upperend companies that maybe have something more special...


Could you fab a key?

[brainlessfool]

grind off the chrome then weld a nut to the lug, bust the nut off and put a band-aid on those bleeding knuckles. next get a chisal and try to beat them in the off direction.

more band-aids please.

then take a cutting torch to them, cut the lugs off the bolts, after you've been relisted from the burn unit take it to the tire store.

[Stocker]

I had a set of those years ago, and they were pretty soft...  Vice-grips might work.  Of course the locks will get all boogered up, but you'll probably be tossing them anyway.

[germ]

Tire shops usually have a "Nut" remover. Typically charge a few more pennies for their trouble, but occasionally worth the $$ to avoid the @#$%^&^%$$%^*& of busting your knuckles. I had a similar problem few years ago, and they were able to get them off without much difficulty, and cost me like 4 or 5$

Erik

[skipnrocks]

Tire shops usually have a "Nut" remover. Typically charge a few more pennies for their trouble, but occasionally worth the $$ to avoid the @#$%^&^%$$%^*& of busting your knuckles. I had a similar problem few years ago, and they were able to get them off without much difficulty, and cost me like 4 or 5$

Erik

Thats what I would try, 5 bucks would be well worth your time,  you could just call around too and find out who will help you out, some shops may just let you borrow the tool in front of their shop...

[DanS]

X2, tire shops are well versed with owners who lose these locks, good luck.
DanS

[12GA.YOTA]

Thanks for the advice. I have a freind that works at the junk yard and every time he finds alug nut key he snags it so he luckily had one that fit, guess they arent one of a kind afterall

[Rocksurfer]

There is a socket that will remove them, tires stores carry them but it may be cheaper to buy a set in your case. When I bought my truck it had locks on them and the kid I bought it from couldn't find the key-lock so my next door nieghbor had a set and we had all 4 off in about 10 min.

[dt]

I welded on some and that softened the metal and then I could get a grip on them with vicegrips

[BigMike]

I welded on some and that softened the metal and then I could get a grip on them with vicegrips

Welding will make a steel harder and more brittle assuming its temperature has risen above the eutectic range. If so, then its microstructure will turn into austenite, and depending on how you cool them down, your likely to get some martensite forming along with some bainite, which is extremely brittle due to the fact that most of its remaining carbon will transform without diffusion, so you will have carbon atom interstitials which prevent slip dislocations to form and thereby creating an instant fracture which is brittle by nature.

If you wanted to weld on them only to play with the microstructure, then I would recommend getting them very hot (above 700 degrees C) and then immediately quenching them with a continueous stream of water. This will increase the weight percent of martensite and will give you the most brittle result to play with (shatter it baby!)

Of course this will make your studs brittle as well, so therefore don't weld on lug nuts!! Sheeesh

Ideally you would want to try to get Pearlite (a very strong microstructure) to form, or even better some Spherodite, but you will need to cool it very slowly by holding them in an oven of some sort, which wouldn't work here...

Yup, just take it to a tire shop

[BigMike]

Ah, now if you weld and heat them up to its invariant point, or some other point near its liquidus line where you have a liquid-solid solution, and then grip it with some vicegrips immediately before quenching it below 200 C to form your martensite, then you would be able to deform the nuts enough for the vicegrips to lock onto them and then extract them.

Of course you would have to take into account the fact that the vicegrips themselves will loose their heat treatment and they will become fused together with the nut you will need to grind off...

This approach seems possible, but the liquidus line should be in excess of 1,100 C and I don't know if many welders can achieve this or not, plus you have to keep it above that point while you are welding it and moving the vice grip around.

[ninja turtle]

 

[brainlessfool]

Ah, now if you weld and heat them up to its invariant point, or some other point near its liquidus line where you have a liquid-solid solution, and then grip it with some vicegrips immediately before quenching it below 200 C to form your martensite, then you would be able to deform the nuts enough for the vicegrips to lock onto them and then extract them.

Of course you would have to take into account the fact that the vicegrips themselves will loose their heat treatment and they will become fused together with the nut you will need to grind off...

This approach seems possible, but the liquidus line should be in excess of 1,100 C and I don't know if many welders can achieve this or not, plus you have to keep it above that point while you are welding it and moving the vice grip around.
Welding will make a steel harder and more brittle assuming its temperature has risen above the eutectic range. If so, then its microstructure will turn into austenite, and depending on how you cool them down, your likely to get some martensite forming along with some bainite, which is extremely brittle due to the fact that most of its remaining carbon will transform without diffusion, so you will have carbon atom interstitials which prevent slip dislocations to form and thereby creating an instant fracture which is brittle by nature.

If you wanted to weld on them only to play with the microstructure, then I would recommend getting them very hot (above 700 degrees C) and then immediately quenching them with a continueous stream of water. This will increase the weight percent of martensite and will give you the most brittle result to play with (shatter it baby!)

Of course this will make your studs brittle as well, so therefore don't weld on lug nuts!! Sheeesh

Ideally you would want to try to get Pearlite (a very strong microstructure) to form, or even better some Spherodite, but you will need to cool it very slowly by holding them in an oven of some sort, which wouldn't work here...

Yup, just take it to a tire shop

Awwwww, what

[Doof]

Ah, now if you weld and heat them up to its invariant point, or some other point near its liquidus line where you have a liquid-solid solution, and then grip it with some vicegrips immediately before quenching it below 200 C to form your martensite, then you would be able to deform the nuts enough for the vicegrips to lock onto them and then extract them.

Of course you would have to take into account the fact that the vicegrips themselves will loose their heat treatment and they will become fused together with the nut you will need to grind off...

This approach seems possible, but the liquidus line should be in excess of 1,100 C and I don't know if many welders can achieve this or not, plus you have to keep it above that point while you are welding it and moving the vice grip around.

i only followd all that because of my fire class which is basically a chem class, but even so that was very confusing and how could you think of stuff that technical at 130am?

[Gittinit]

Nice info Mike. Someone was paying attention in class. 


I have run into a simular problem before nd lucily for me it was on a car with nonexistance backspacing on the wheels. I was able to grind some flat spots onto the lugnuts, and use a wrench to get the lugs broke loose.

[TacoRunner]

I ran into this one time on my truck..   GO to Homedepo and buy a concrete chisel with hex shaft on it for about $10 then go home and with your grinder cut notch the same size as the chisel then but a socket the same size as the hex on the back and start turing... all done.

[MiniSimp]

I just find a 12pt socket that is just smaller than the lug, hit the hell out of it to fit it on the lug, then remove.

[Hyena]

Gator Grip, never tried it but it could work.

[BLACKDOG]

Gator Grip, never tried it but it could work.

Those things suck.  They only work on stuff that is a little tighter than finger tight, if that, and they don't work on anything deep.  My mom has one, and it is completely worthless 

[skyscraper]

I work at tire pros, and we have a set of bolt extractors just for this problem.  Just hammer it on snug, then hit it with a breakrer bar or impact.  12pt socket will do the same if your willing to sacrifice it, but you would have to really hit it on there good before trying to turn, otherwise it'll slip.  A big set of vise grips sometimes will work too.  I would never weld on it because of the heat damage.  I think big mike took care of that though...

[skipnrocks]

Gator Grip, never tried it but it could work.

I have the gator grip brand and it worked awesome for tearing my truck apart and did fine on the things that were pretty stuck too the only problem I had with it was contamination made some of the prongs get stuck in and then it stoped working on hard stuff.

[Redeyejedi]

x13 on da tire shop!!! they may be able to locate a key for you. those gator grips suckballs. wont do didly on lugs, barely do squat on nuts. i remeber metwrench from sears/craftsman(i think) was better for stripped bolts/nuts, but for dem luglox, i'd try to hunt down a proper key if possible, may save some headache. just my too scents.

[Doof]

take a pic of the pattern...i might have a key you can buy if you want

[12GA.YOTA]

I got them off and threw them out and got a new set of 4, one on each wheele should do fine to protect my brand new 35" boggers and rock crawler black steely rims, thanx for all the help and advice   

[skipnrocks]

I got them off and threw them out and got a new set of 4, one on each wheele should do fine to protect my brand new 35" boggers and rock crawler black steely rims, thanx for all the help and advice   

What after all this your not going to tell us how you got them off???

[Stocker]

^^ + 1     

[skyscraper]

x3

[12GA.YOTA]

Thanks for the advice. I have a freind that works at the junk yard and every time he finds alug nut key he snags it so he luckily had one that fit, guess they arent one of a kind afterall