Topic: Still not quite right...

[Plekto]

Okay, I got the MC HD transmission in - and it's great.  no vibration, very tight and tough.  Lovely.

But something is wrong with the clutch(yes, the mechanic replaced it and the hydraulics - all new parts).  Got about 30 miles so far on it.

1:It has proper feel and tension, but the engagement point is an inch off the floor.  Not loose or flopping - nice and tight, but engages super low. 
2:It wants to(but I don't let it obviously) grind going into reverse unless I bury it to the floor.  Then the thing makes no nose.

ie - if I very very lightly move it from neutral to reverse, I can hear the gears begin to make this "meeeeerrrr" sound as they start to make contact.(I figure something in there is turning at several hundred rpm still).  Obviously if the engine is off, I get no noise/problems at all.  It's not the "ERR*thunk*" you normally would expect in an older vehicle) It used to do this before, so I was shifting into reverse carefully out of habit.(only shifted it into reverse two times so far, so I don't figure there's any damage to the gears since I was careful)

My gut tells me something with the hydraulics or mechanisms. (can't be the clutch at 30miles of babying it, obviously)  I also notice that if I have it in first with no gas and the clutch in, the car creeps forward slowly like an automatic(rpms drop to about 400 at idle but it won't actually stall, despite running like it wants to).  My gut feeling on it is that whatever pulls the clutch away/apart isn't actually forcing it apart properly and it's still partially engaged?  Maybe I got a defective part somewhere?

[jimbo74]

i would look into adjusting the pedal freeplay and the rod on the clutch mc... i have heard that some slave cylinders have their own adjustment points as well.... i doesnt sound like its a tranny issue... also was the clutch hydraulics properly bled? what all was replaced?

[bigarms23]

x2

[Plekto [OP]]

Well, he did have to bleed it again after it had sat all night. I thought it was maybe getting air in it/had a leak, but it wanted to grind a bit right after he adjusted it(parking when I got home).  Sort of the RR*Thunk* - which I wasn't sure if it was normal or not, since almsot all cars I've ever had have done that from time to time.

But today parking at work(where I am now) it just wouldn't slow down to go into reverse at all until I buried it hard.(basically stood on the clutch).

Pretty much everything was replaced as far as I can tell.(new master and slave and hoses at least)  I guess I'll have to take it in tomorrow.  *sigh*. 

At least there's a six month warranty on the work, so it's not going to cost me anything to get fixed.

P.S. is there anything like the flywheel being resurfaced too many times or a bent fork or something that might just not be moving it far enough apart to completely disengage?  I can feel it engage halfway down, but it doesn't actually release until I nearly hit the floor.  As if there's some reduction gear in-between or something.

ie - instead of moving 1X apart, it's moving 1/8thX apart for the same movement.

[*ROKTOY*]

Try putting it in first before going to reverse, that should stop the grind. The reason for doing this is reverse is not synchronized.

[Plekto [OP]]

It's a W56 transmission in a 1987 4Runner.  It should be syncronized, right? 

This was most definitely 500-600rpm still engaged, like if you manually forced it into neutral while in gear and then tried to put it back without the clutch being pressed sort of sound.

"rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"(pause, try again, carefully, after putting in into first)..."rrrrrrrrrrrrrr"(still not going any slower).  (press the clutch as hard as I can) - no sound goes into reverse silently, as if the motor was off.

Now, I can of course just turn off the engine first, but if I need to say, make a 3 point turn... yeah, it shouldn't be required.

[THK Matt]

sounds like a flywheel problem... .and a manual should creep forward without dying in first gear. helps in 4low.... no need for gas or brakes.... just steering

i would have the mechanic shim your flywheel.
that may help alot!

they had to on my dads  95 4Runner.
and it engages within an inch. VERY TIGHT CLUTCH!
gets gettin used to..

once they shim the flywheel then go from there on adjusting your freeplay.

as for that rrr sound..
these W56's go out of syncro a lot.
i constantly have to stick back into 1st before going into reverse..... to realign the gears.
no big deal.

[Plekto [OP]]

Thanks about the syncro - I did figure it was like that since it was a 20 year old design.  My old Volvo and Mercedes also did this a bit(yes, manual Mercedes - you're right - it was VERY OLD - heh)  Oh, and also the creep question - though I do have to set my idle 200-300prm higher I think. 

I'll let you know tomorrow.

Transmission itself is, as I said, bulletproof - love the tiny jet engine sound/whistle the heavy duty bearings make.  Louder than stock, yes, but a good sound(like off-road tires are good).

[79coyotefrg]

plekto,  have your mechanic  adjust the  slave to fork rod as LONG as it can possibly go

the clutch isnt fully  disengaging, this is a Marlin clutch  thats cause they are HEAVY DUTY,   just make the slave rod long as possible  then adjust the pedal under the dash  the same way

[Plekto [OP]]

Thanks!  I'll take all of this and make a checklist for the mechanic tomorrow morning.  I think it's going to be a 1 hour or less fix.(unless its something with the flywheel).

I do like the very on/off feel of it though.  I think half the reason people burn clutches is because there's so much play in a stock one. It feels close to my old Mercedes(had an old soleniod operated clutch!)  Nothing then click - it automatically yanked the clutch in or out for you.  Really odd at first  - but you could hold the clutch very closely without actually causing any wear/burning it.

[-Matt-]

use a longer bolt to extend ur push rod by the slave cylinder and see if that helps ull only need to extend it like 3/16's a few of my friends had the same problem as u and that fixed it, i also had a similar problem, it tends to happen more with the marlin clutches becasue their not oem and are more beefed up

[Plekto [OP]]

Fixed it.  He bled the system again.  That fixed the release point, and with the extra inch to press down now, it's fine.  Evidently it's just going to to touchy for a few thousand miles until everything wears itself in properly.  I'll run it around for a few weeks and see if my typical abuse in city traffic will loosen things up a bit. 

Yes, L.A. is about as unfriendly with a manual as D.C. or New York.  No, not going to get an automatic.  Though I should probably buy another HD clutch kit in the next year or so just in case.(and yes, we have some ugly hills here, too, like San Fransisco)

Q: how long should I expect the HD clutch to last if I'm moderately hard on it *and* do average off-road(dirt, gravel, etc - no rocks yet)?  I'm unfortunately not the quickest person when it comes to getting off the clutch.    

[THK Matt]

Oh, and also the creep question - though I do have to set my idle 200-300prm higher I think. 

I'll let you know tomorrow.

set it at 750-800 RPMS.

if that doesnt work..... its other things..

[Plekto [OP]]

that's a different problem entirely.   It's just set a bit lean to pass smog I think.