Topic: Toyota front inner and outer axle snap ring questions

[lowgeared]

I have been running the piss out of my welded front end while not using a snap ring to keep the axle located in the locking hub.  I have never done the weld on the splines and have no intention of doing so-if this is used to retain the axle in the hub.  Now I have two friends that don't even run the compression ring that retains the birfield outer to the inner axle.  Any ideas on this?  They are both locked up in front and the one has ran in two NWRCA crawls and 1 UROC crawl without failure running like this.  The outers are Longfields if that makes a difference.  Just wondering if anyone else does this???

[Marlin]

The c-clip on the outer end of the birfield stub shaft keeps the axle from walking inward and contacting the inner bore of the bell. I have left this clip off many times.

The main reason for the "martack" on the inner axle at the side gear was to prevent the inner axle from walking inward and possibly letting gear oil flow past the seal, or lossing spline engagement in the birfield.
If you are running a locker diff, the inner martack is propably not required, because the design on the locker prevents the axle from floating inward.

Marlin

[mr4x42u]

If its a welded toy diff I would think the cross pin in the diff will keep the axle from moving inward away from the birf and seal so you should be ok with out the martack..Some lockers likw detroit and arb need the tack or it will damage not only the locker but could loose oil past the seal and pull too far from the birf..

[84runner]

This martack is new to me, but what I'm getting is you use it so it's easy to replace a birfield on the trail. Is this right?

[mr4x42u]

yea,the martack is a spot weld on the splines to keep it from going too far into your diff and causing damage to your diff and from pulling too far from the birf..It elminates the need for the PITA snap ring and make birf swaps easy..Marlin used to have it up on his site..Here is some info i have on it..

Its an old article and as far as I know marlin does not do this for free anymore..

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/cheaptricks/clipweld/

[84runner]

Thats exactly what I thought. I'm gonna have to do this when I upgrade my birfields

[gferris5]

Marlin-Why again did you guys stop doing this? I remember hearing something about it, it does seem like you could mess stuff up pretty easily if you put the tack in the wrong spot-sounds like a recipe for striped splines-Otherwise though, is it still a common thing to do?

[lowgeared [OP]]

Well here goes my snap ring experiment....on my train rig, I've never had the birf's apart so the only snap rings I'm NOT running is the outer most one outside of the hub.  I don't run this one on my Blazer or Jeep either.  I have a "budget" 4runner I picked up and decided to go throught the front end yesterday just to check it out.  It had all the snap rings in place.  I figured screw it I'm going to try that pipe trick so I lit it and...oh wait, that's the wrong pipe ...just kidding-I dropped the axle into a pipe and the birfield came right off the first try.  It also had both snap rings on that end.  Well...I've never had anyone tell me how to get them back together.  In trying to compress the inner ring and puch it back into the birf, it broke the snap ring.   Looking back now, I probably could have compressed it with a hose clamp or something and got it back together sort of like a ring compressor.  Anyway the drivers side is all repacked with new grease and no birfield retaining snap ring.  I'll do the pass side today.  I don't see a probrem as the axle would hit the cross shaft pin in the center of the diff and stop it.  Now on my Jeep, I have a nine inch in the rear with a full spool made by Strange.  It is open all the way through where the splines are and if it was used in a type of Birfield application the axle could travel way too far inboard and separate from the outer.  I've never seen a Toyota spool in person so I would assume they are made the same way.  If this is the case, a full spool in the front would require a Martack or the snap ring???  What do you think?

[moutaintoys]

i run the outer snap ring on tthe berfild  the rest don't matter unless your running a spool

[Marlin]

I started putting a small spot weld [martack] on the inner axle because my hand made marfields had a ring welded on the face of the joint that prevented it from being dissasembled. I was concerned that if the axle snapped off in the joint, the broken piece would be held in the marfield by the circlip and because the joint could not be taken apart, you would have to drill out the broken axle spline:moon:

We still do martacks, but if you have a locker, there really is no where for the axle to go.

It IS very important to put the weld in the right spot

Marlin