Author Topic: 22re valve stem seal change....easy job? (Read 17624 times)

spacoli · « **on:** Dec 30, 2006, 06:12:59 PM »

I need to change my valve stem seals in my 22re. I have a local wrench that usally works on my cars, but is very busy. He said he will let me borrow his spring commpresser and the fitting to pressure up the cylinders so the valves don't fall.

I have adjusted the valves recently, so I have ben under the valve cover working before.
How tough of a job is it to remove the rockers and springs to get to the seals? Does the cam need removed or can I work around it?

Thanks

kneedownnate · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 30, 2006, 11:56:35 PM »

It's very easy. The cam doesn't need to come out, just the rockers. I'd poor a little fresh oil over everything after you put it back together. Some people have been able to pull the bolts without replacing the headgasket, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's a good time to slap in a new toyota headgasket too

spacoli · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 31, 2006, 06:25:35 AM »

This was a used engine that I just dropped in. Before I dropped it in, I had all new gaskets (including the head gasket) installed, so there would be a bunch of oil leaks and problems down the road. If I would have know better I would have had them changed then.
I really didn't want to get into removing the head and so on if I don't have to.

Tallchevy · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 31, 2006, 07:59:16 AM »

It's easy if you know how to do it. I dont use air. What I do is remove the valve cover & spark plugs. Start with a cylinder that has the pistion coming up. Get some thick nylon rope that fits through the spark plug hole like 1/8" & feed about a softball size amount of rope so it makes a pile on the top of the piston. Rotate the crank until it stops up against the rope, this will keep the valves up in place while you remove the keepers & change the seals on that cylinder only. Once you have the valve springs on that cylinder back together rotate the crank in the opposite direction, pull the rope out & do the same to the next cylinder.

spacoli · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 31, 2006, 02:48:59 PM »

Sounds easy enough, thanks.

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 01, 2007, 08:30:59 PM »

the unfortunate part about the job is that the head bolts have to be removed to take the rockers off. you spoke of leaks early on in the thread if you don't replace the head gasket you will have more problems than vale seals. you will have coolant in you combustion chambers and crankcase not mention taking the chance that the head gasket could blow prematurely. coolant in the combustion chambers can cause hydro lock. you would take all those chances for the price of head gasket. then while you had the head off you could probably get your local machine shop to touch up the valve job for less than $50

spacoli · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 02, 2007, 04:46:57 AM »

That's a very good point. It's not worth taking a chance with the head gasket.

When I first asked the question, because I'm not a mechanic and not familiar with how engines are assembled, I did not realize how the head bolts and rockers are fastened with the same bolts.

If I decide to go that route, will I see a difference in performance with a valve job?

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 02, 2007, 05:52:17 PM »

if the truck runs and idles ok now you will more than likely notice no difference. what i would do is run a compression test on it first before i took it apart and again after i got it back together. that way you will have something to compare. the compression should be no less than 100psi. that is really on the low side. i like to see at least 150 on each cylinder and that it is even on all cylinders. + or - a few psi. if you need any more help don't hesitate to ask.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 02, 2007, 06:23:33 PM »

and valve seals arent going to cause a noticeable loss of compression, it WILL cause smoke from burning oil after you idle a few minutes

do a compression check and report back the numbers

Tallchevy · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 02, 2007, 08:50:29 PM »

Did you check the cylinders? I bought an 83 that wasn't running when I got it. Found out that it was bored 20 over. Had it rebuilt & I would burn 1 quart of oil every 75 miles & foul #3 spark plug. Thought it was the chromoly rings & put in cast rings & still had the same problem just not as bad. Did a compression check & it check out good. This time I pulled it apart & found #3 cylinder was cut wrong. I got another block, rebuilt again & solved the problem.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 02, 2007, 09:13:12 PM »

Quote from: michaelfinn on Jan 02, 2007, 05:52:17 PM

the compression should be no less than 100psi. that is really on the low side.

Not to step on any toes, but I believe toyota calls for a rebuild at about 120psi.

spacoli · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 03, 2007, 04:35:36 AM »

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on Jan 02, 2007, 06:23:33 PM

and valve seals arent going to cause a noticeable loss of compression, it WILL cause smoke from burning oil after you idle a few minutes

do a compression check and report back the numbers

I will check with the guy that worked on the engine and see if he can check the compression.

If the valve seals is not the cause for the oil usage? Wouldn't I see some smoke if it was blowing by the rings and getting burt off, after the initail first start smoke was gone? If I'm losing almost 2 qrt. in just over 1000 miles and not seeing any smoke, how much oil consumption and miles will I see smoke (1qt per 50-100-200 miles?)?

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 03, 2007, 06:19:32 PM »

you can be have bad rings and be smoking from the tailpipe and not really notice on the road. if you are using that much oil and not leaking, then i would check the back your truck to see if you have an oil residue on the tailgate or fender. assuming you have a tailgate and that the exhaust comes out the back. sometimes driving down the road you will get a swirling effect at the tailpipe and it will leave oil on the body. if you suspect rings have someone do a cylinder leak check to see what kind of leakage you have. also be sure your pcv valve is working. you can also pull the vent hose from the valve cover with it running to see how much blow by you have. pull the one off closest to the front of the truck. i had a 95 grand cherokee that would use about three quarts in about 5k miles and it was the rings. you can not tell it driving it until i had someone follow me and you could see the smoke.

spacoli · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 04, 2007, 05:33:03 AM »

I do not see any signs of oil at the tail pipe or on the tail gate.

The pvc valve is new, how do I know if it's working?

Is the vent hose your talking about right behind the oil fill cap, and runs over to the intake?

What is the "blow by" or how much "blow by" should I have, how do I know? What does how much "blow by" tell you?

You say your car used 3 qrt in 5k and had bad rings. At the rate I'm using oil, if Iwent 5k I would go through 6+ qrt.

I'm going to my mechanic today and see if I can check the compression.

I will post a link to a video clip later. I will start the truck after sitting over night and show the amount of smoke upon start up and how it goes away.

spacoli · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 04, 2007, 11:28:23 AM »

Here is a link to a video clip of starting the truck after sitting over night. the blue smoke burns off and then there is none other than the normal steam (40* outside).

http://media.putfile.com/smoke-45-84

The second video clip is after it's warmed up and has idled down, then I rev the engine a couple times.

http://media.putfile.com/smoke-004

I had a reply on another forum, that you can slide the rockers over out of the way to get to the seals. No need to remove the head bolts, so you can air up the cylinder and not worry about the head gasket.
The guy said he has done this many times over the years.

What do you think?

Edit: I watch the video clips and for me it was hard to actually tell the color of the smoke. If you watch the time, the first 20 seconds was blue smoke and then it changed to the white steam.

spacoli · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 02:41:17 PM »

Well the rockers couldn't be slide over like the other guy said. So I will have to do it like others suggested.

I did get to check the compression on all cylinders. The lowest I had was around 118 psi and all the others were atleast 120 psi. So I guess the compression is questionable, acording to the previous post from kneedownnate.

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 11:40:59 AM »

pressure in the crankcase is sometimes referred to as blowby. with the truck running pull the hose just off just behind the oil cap. you should get just a little air coming out of the valve cover. to much would be if there is oil coming out with it or you have a lot of pressure when you take the hose off. if you do have alot of pressure. i would make sure you have no resrictions in the hose going the pcv valve. to check it pull the pcv valve out with it still hooked to the itntake, start the engine and there should be vacuum at the valve. compression is low but in the real world the truck will run on those numbers. if you are using that much oil you should easily be able to find out where it is going.

spacoli · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 12:38:29 PM »

Thanks for the explanation on the blow by. I will check that out.

Well, I did another compression test with the info I received from the forums. I had been doing it wrong.

I warmed the engine up, pulled all the plugs, pulled the EFI fuse and held the throttle open.

Here are the numbers with number of revolutions for each. I choose to do different revolutions, because it seems like everyone had a different number of revolutions that they suggested. So this would give everyone a comparision
to what they usally do.

First is 4 revolutions, next is 6, next is 8 and the max (until needle stopped moving around 10 revolutions)

#1 - 170,188,205,210
#2 - 170,185,200,210
#3 - 170,188,200,210
#4 - 165,180,195,200

Is it safe to say that my oil usage is not from the rings, since I have good compression. So it must be the stem seals.

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 05:44:01 PM »

i just consulted my factory manual on the 22re it states that normal compression is 171. minimum pressure is 142 and the difference between the cylinders are 14 psi. you could have bad rings and have good compression. pull you intake boot at the throttle plate off and see if there is alot of oil there.

spacoli · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 06:14:26 PM »

Quote from: michaelfinn on Jan 06, 2007, 11:40:59 AM

pressure in the crankcase is sometimes referred to as blowby. with the truck running pull the hose just off just behind the oil cap. you should get just a little air coming out of the valve cover. to much would be if there is oil coming out with it or you have a lot of pressure when you take the hose off. if you do have alot of pressure. i would make sure you have no resrictions in the hose going the pcv valve. to check it pull the pcv valve out with it still hooked to the itntake, start the engine and there should be vacuum at the valve. compression is low but in the real world the truck will run on those numbers. if you are using that much oil you should easily be able to find out where it is going.

I did pull the hose off behind the oil cap, there was air blowing out but no oil what so ever.
The pvc is new, I didn't bother to pull that.

I will check for oil behind the throttle plate. How would oil get in there, through that hose I checked?

170 psi is around what I had with 4 revolutions. Does it state in the manual how long to turn the engine over to check compression?

So I could still have bad rings?

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 06:32:21 PM »

i would be happy with that. you need to have some one do a cylinder leakage test on it. with as much oil as you say you are using, it should br easy to find.

spacoli · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 06:38:36 PM »

Is it possible the valve stems seals cause that much oil usage?

mickeyfinn · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 07:03:19 PM »

i just looked at your video. on the second video there is alot of smoke during acceleration. if you are going to do this job yourself about all you will be losing is a head gasket if the valve seals don't fix it.

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