Noobie Build-up Tips

[blackdiamond]

I have not seen a thread specifically to help noobs determine what mods to make to their trucks, and in what order.  Follow my format and see how everyone compares with their preferences.  My intent is to maximize off road capability while keeping cost/mods minimal.

Starting from a Stock Truck
1. Slightly larger tires - a little added ground clearance is very helpful (31" or 32").
2. 4.70 transfer case or duals - I found that low gears made wheeling more enjoyable than lockers.  Control over traction.
3. Rear Locker (Lunchbox type to keep cost to a minimum) - gears and a rear locker can go a lot of places
4. Lift Kit - time for more ground clearance and the big tires (33"+)
5. Ring & Pinion - gears are important on-road with large tires
6. Front Locker - Should be done with R&P unless the plan is lunchbox type to avoid double setup effort
7. Upgrade Front axles & birfields - a front locker with stock birfields is asking for a trail repair
8. Body Protection - Rock sliders & bumpers
9. Roll Cage
10. Builders Choice - You should know what you want by now!

[seanc]

Reliable Toyota Build

This thread is intended to used as a guide for the Novice Wheeler who wants a reliable Toyota on the trail and at home.
I will break it down into several setions. The engine and transmission we will leave in and mostly stock to keep them reliable. I will also keep this selective to "off-the-shelf" parts. In other words very few junkyard parts.

Performance Engine Mods:
Header---- Available From: LC Engineering, Pace Setter, Thorley, Doney
Exhaust Hi Flow Cat and Muffler (2 1/4"(---- Available From: Custom Shop, Flowmaster, Summit, Borla, CSK Auto etc
Air Filter---- Available From: K&N

Transmission:
Heavy Duty Clutch---- Available From: Marlin, CSK auto


T-case:
Dual Cases---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro, Rock Buggy Supply
T-case gears---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro
Skidplate---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro, FROR
Twin Stick--- Available From: Marlin
Cage Available---- From: Marlin, All Pro

Front Differential:
1985 Toyota Housing, Trussed on top, balls trussed, steering stops filled
Toyota Tacoma E-locker---- Available From: Marlin, Toyota
30 spline Longfields---- Available From: Longfield Super Axles
Stock Asin Hubs
Upgraded Heavy Duty Driveline---- Available From: High Angle Drivelines
Differential Armor---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro, 8" Pipe Cap
FROR arp hub studs



Steering:
Marlin Hy-steer kit w/ FJ-80 rod ends and .250 wall drag link and tie rod
IFS Box
AGR Ram Assist
ARP Steering Studs
FROR Steering Box Brace

Rear Differential:
1986 Toyota Housing
Poly Performance Alloy Shafts
All Pro Off Road Rear Disk Brake Conversion
Traction Bar (fabrication required)
Upgraded Heavy Duty Driveline
Differential Armor


Suspension:
Marlin Front and Rear Leaf Springs (your choice of size)
BBCS 15" Travel Shocks Front and Rear Available From:
Marlin Shock Hoops in front
U-Bolt Flip Kits---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro
Extended Shackle---- Available From: Marlin, Confer, All Pro
Rear Spring Hanger---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro, CJ stock
Rear Shackle Hanger---- Available From: Marlin, All Pro, CJ stock


Brakes:
V6 IFS Calipers---- Available From: Marlin, CSK auto
FJ-80 Rotors---- Available From: Marlin, CSK auto
FJ-80 non-abs Master Cylinder---- Available From: Marlin, CSK auto

Body Protection:
Marlin Rock Rails
Marlin Front and Rear Bumpers

And yes I know there is a ton of little stuff not here and that there are cheaper ways, but if there is anything obvious missing let me know.

And yes it would be "cooler" to just swap in a pair of Dynatrac's, a small-block, an auto, and an Atlas.

[CTENG in KS]

Hmm, I went
5.29's and welded rear, LS front
33's no lift
35's no lift trim a lot
marlin suspension & histeer
oh wait, I don't count...I'm not wheelin yet.        
me -> <- me

[79coyotefrg]

seanc    noobs with money i guess


for the rest,  first 32's ,then a rearlocker, then flexy suspension,   wheel  till experienced, then bigger tires and tcase gears

then r&p

body armor, rollbar

[burnyota]

seanc noobs with money i guess


for the rest, first 32's ,then a rearlocker, then flexy suspension, wheel till experienced, then bigger tires and tcase gears

then r&p

body armor, rollbar

I totally agree with taking things in small steps and as your ability level increases, so should your trucks ability. But I wouldn't go with 32's, personally, 33's because the are easy to find, and lots of people run 33's in case you need a spare and don't have your own. What 79Coyotefrg said is right....

[cheap sunglasses]

I would add that for your 31"/32"/33"/whatever tire "step" of the process, you could save money by buying used tires, as they are temporary anyway. No need to add cost with redundant things such as 2 sets of tires. Where would you guys put a SAS in there for the '86+ folks?

[blackdiamond]

Where would you guys put a SAS in there for the '86+ folks?

You might not realize how much this question is    There are complete threads that deal with this question.

The bottom line is if you can do the type of wheeling that you enjoy without breaking the front end (a locker is probably not the best idea but a limited slip might be ok) then there is no reason.

I read an article once that explained that stiff suspension does cause you to lift tires more often, but at the same time the weight shifts to the other three tires giving them more traction (force/weight and friction).  I have not wheeled IFS, but I suspect that it would go a lot of places.  I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on an IFS lift, better to do the swap at that point.

[cheap sunglasses]

You might not realize how much this question is There are complete threads that deal with this question.

Lol I didn't mean to stink up your precious thread, I already have my own opinion on the issue, I just figured if you experts were giving noobs advice you might want to throw the SAS step in the mix.

[blackdiamond]

Lol I didn't mean to stink up your precious thread, I already have my own opinion on the issue, I just figured if you experts were giving noobs advice you might want to throw the SAS step in the mix.

Feel free to "stink" it up, the SAS or not topic is usually a time bomb in threads.

[cheap sunglasses]

my bad
time bomb or not i think its very relevent, or at least if IFS trucks are to be included in the advice circle
why put crawler gears and f/r lockers in a truck that cant articulate?
so as to avoid the timb bomb of which you speak, perhaps this thread should note that IFS rigs probably shouldnt follow the same buildup order
I will stop pooing on your thread now, bomb dismantled 

[BLACKDOG]

I think IFS should certainly be addressed.  I am more comfortable at off camber than fellow wheelers, because I spend a lot of time on three wheels.  IFS doesn't articulate as well, but it is fairly capable, as long as you use common sense.    I'm locked front and rear, and as long  as you don't spin your tires, and don't gas it when turning, you won't break your  


If you're gonna wheel with IFS
1. make sure you've got a decent rear suspension, help make up for the lack of front articulation
2. if you're gonna spend the $$ on an IFS lift, do it right, and make sure the CVs are going to be at stock angles (the good lifts use drop brakets to do this)  Less potential breakage
3.  Heavy foot is not your friend while wheelin IFS, especially in the rocks


I'm soon doing a SAS, simply because my IFS is not longer a feasible wheeling/DD option.  It is bent and tweaked, and the adjusting bolts no longer adjust   I have learned a lot on IFS, and I dertainly think that if a newbie gets an IFS rig, they should wheel it first, before doing a SAS.

[79coyotefrg]

when  should you go sas,  i think just like Jason  has done, wheel it till its broke then  do the sas

you can learn alot from a ifs rig,   the first thing for a ifs rig  should be a rear locker  and some flexy rear springs


yes  32's are hard to find,  go 31's then 33's, ask me why i know this

[toynizzy]

i have 2 friends that have ifs trucks,they set up the rears the best they could and welded them,and they go alot of places some other trucks cant go,after all they r still toyota's lol.they want the sas but no $$$ for now so run what u brung.also there not noob's to wheeling either so that helps im sure

[blackdiamond]

In my opinion, wheeling is more about the driver than the rig.  I can drive my toy up Dump Bump in Moab consistantly, but it took my dad two trips to Moab before he figured it out.  His wheeling experience was in a mostly stock Blazer with an automatic so my toy was foreign (pun intended) to him.  If your truck is built so well that anyone can drive it up anything, what's the point?  You can have just as much fun pushing a stock rig to its limits as you can a truggy, it is just easier to find places to do it.  This is why I don't mind running little tiny 33 inch tires, when I drive my truck on some of the difficult trails with success and without damage, it shows driver skill.

As an example, my buddy used to drive a K5 Blazer with 37 inch tires, and automatic and Detroits front and rear.  His wife drove it up Rocker Knocker Hill on her 2nd attempt (she is a novice wheeler), I jokingly offered her the keys to my truck and she went 

The fun is learning to push the rigs limits rather than building to the point that everything is easy, that is what the highway is all about. 

[cheap sunglasses]

  Nice post

[BLACKDOG]

In my opinion, wheeling is more about the driver than the rig.  I can drive my toy up Dump Bump in Moab consistantly, but it took my dad two trips to Moab before he figured it out.  His wheeling experience was in a mostly stock Blazer with an automatic so my toy was foreign (pun intended) to him.  If your truck is built so well that anyone can drive it up anything, what's the point?  You can have just as much fun pushing a stock rig to its limits as you can a truggy, it is just easier to find places to do it.  This is why I don't mind running little tiny 33 inch tires, when I drive my truck on some of the difficult trails with success and without damage, it shows driver skill.

As an example, my buddy used to drive a K5 Blazer with 37 inch tires, and automatic and Detroits front and rear.  His wife drove it up Rocker Knocker Hill on her 2nd attempt (she is a novice wheeler), I jokingly offered her the keys to my truck and she went 

The fun is learning to push the rigs limits rather than building to the point that everything is easy, that is what the highway is all about. 

  I learned how to wheel at about 7 years old in a stock FJ60.  When I got my license, I actually tied to wheel a 2wd 87 dodge caravan with a 1.8 ltr mitsubishi engine needless to say, I had to hone my skills pretty well

[79coyotefrg]

I learned how to wheel at about 7 years old in a stock FJ60. When I got my license, I actually tied to wheel a 2wd 87 dodge caravan with a 1.8 ltr mitsubishi engine needless to say, I had to hone my skills pretty well

oh man  have i got a deal for you,  $200   for a 92  Plymouth voyager minivan  , but it has a injected V6   you can do a sas on it if ya want 

[hudlenutz]

I'm just getting started wheeling, and my truck's ifs. 

With my vast noob experience, the first mod should be:

some type of rear locker

That's where I'm at right now: stock truck with rear traction aid.

The next thing I'm getting is a single 4.7 t-case

then some sliders.

At that point, I'll have all the money into the ifs that I'll ever want (none), a truck that's starting to become capable, and I'll start thinking about the sas.   

[blackdiamond]

I'm just getting started wheeling, and my truck's ifs. 

With my vast noob experience, the first mod should be:

some type of rear locker

That's where I'm at right now: stock truck with rear traction aid.

The next thing I'm getting is a single 4.7 t-case

then some sliders.

At that point, I'll have all the money into the ifs that I'll ever want (none), a truck that's starting to become capable, and I'll start thinking about the sas.   

Sounds like a wise plan.  I think I got more benefit from my single 4.7 that I did from the lockers.  In the mostly stock condition, it was difficult to control the truck wheeling with stock gearing.  Even with open diffs, I could have picked better lines with the ability to go slow.  If you have a rear locker and 4.7 gears you should have an excellent setup!

[eddyb]

Figured I'd throw my two cents in because I wheel IFS and only have a few years under my belt.  I welded up my front diff so I could "turn it off"  On the road.  When I opened it up to weld it I discovered four cracked teeth on the ring.  Everything works fine and haven't had any problems.

[furrballs95]

ed i'm going to laugh my ass off    when you blow that dif up

[eddyb]

I will be laughing right along with you.  I know that it will eventually fail, it's just a matter of time.  If it doesn't break I'm not wheeling it hard enough.

[synwars]

The fun is learning to push the rigs limits rather than building to the point that everything is easy, that is what the highway is all about.

I agree with you that experience kills potential, but come on.

Who builds a linked crawler so they can get through mud easier? Know what I'm saying?

Lockers.
Gear reduction.
Springs.

Easy. You need a little to accomplish a lot.

I'm not even sure why this thread was started, I swear this is covered in "Four Wheel Owners - 101" class.

[blackdiamond]

I agree with you that experience kills potential, but come on.

I'm not even sure why this thread was started, I swear this is covered in "Four Wheel Owners - 101" class.

The original intent was simply to help people figure out what order to do their mods if they are on a budget.

For example, A locker and 4.70 t-case gears are cool, but which one provides the best improvement for the investment as a single mod.  Some people might choose the locker, but I think the low gears would have made the most difference for me.

As for experience killing potential, there are always places available to challenge every drive and any truck, but what would be the point in building a truck that take the challenge out of every trail that I ever wanted to run.  I actually met a guy that took a locker out of his Jeep and replaced it with a LS because he enjoyed having to really pick a line on the trails.

[Stinky]

go w/ a locker...unless ure rig's lackin on the street its wayyy easier to detonate a rear or front diff....lockers are cake on toy 3rd members the front center section would be the same as say a d44 but smaller...ive always had a very experienced and knowledgeable mechanic (my father) to give me knowledgen a hand....if u have a friend or something that has some knowhow of that kind then ask them about doin reags...but hey...a $200 in one diff is easier than gears front n rear...plus u gotta break gears in...lockers u just install n drive.... my locker was prolly one of the best mods i did, it does suck at times on the street(makes for some funnn funnn donuts in the wet) and tire wear, but rotatoe them potatoes on a schedule n ure golden

[Volcom]

I'm not even sure why this thread was started, I swear this is covered in "Four Wheel Owners - 101" class.

Wow, not everyone is born with as much knowledge about 4wheeling as people like you 

If you don't like the thread, don't read it and then reply to it.

[crapyota]

my rig did just fine as an ifs and i was glad to learn in it. upgradeing as i felt it was time. with the rear locked and a good set up with gears i was able to keep up with way more built rigs. who often were amased. i to spent more time on three wheels so when i am like that i am used to it, some people get scared. my ifs is just beat and its about to fall out thats why im doing sas. just stay basic have fun and you will know when its time for more.
tire,lift,travel,etc.

[furrballs95]

wat he said its is better to learn how to wheel first, how to pick a line playin it smart ect.  i'm doing a SAS i'm my truck here pretty soon but the ifs worked great for me. i wheel an ifs truck for 2 years i'm just at the piont know where i know wat i want for my truck and i know what it needs. 

my rig did just fine as an ifs and i was glad to learn in it. upgradeing as i felt it was time. with the rear locked and a good set up with gears i was able to keep up with way more built rigs. who often were amased. i to spent more time on three wheels so when i am like that i am used to it, some people get scared. my ifs is just beat and its about to fall out thats why im doing sas. just stay basic have fun and you will know when its time for more.
tire,lift,travel,etc.