Mikes Motor Build-up

[To The Floor]

or you could've put in a stock 3.4 and had 190hp and 220 fpot and it would've been much more reliable than a 22-re on steroids.  but hey, it's cool.

[WHITE_TRASH]

187 hp at the rear wheels?  LOL now thats funny, MAYBE in a celica running full synthetic trans and diff oil but not a chance after passing through the trans, t-case and diff.  not that it wont be a spunky engine but it wont exactly tear up the streets.

[Skinny_Pedal]

your chit aint got nothing on me still. for gods sake i have a red valve cover  


but being serious. my motor has
94mm forged pistons
45.5mm stainless intake valves
37.5mm stainless exhaust valves
my cam more midrange-top end-its pretty similar to a stock smal blockl cam
i have a stainless header, bored throttle body, intake(knfilter ),  a 1200 pound clutch, and some other goodies. im personally going with i have a more built motor and it in know way puts down that much power. if you have it done soon lets get a little race going

[81RockerToy]

Is this a race board now?

Geese Skinny, with that much attention in the motor, you must have an otherwise, pretty impressively modified rig, huh?

[To The Floor]

Is this a race board now?

Geese Skinny, with that much attention in the motor, you must have an otherwise, pretty impressively modified rig, huh?

so if you had a blown motor in your truck and had a lc motor lined up for $1100 what would you do ? im trying to prove that mikes motor does not put down nearly what he is saying. what does the motor in my truck have to do with the modifcations to my truck? can't a guy have a nice motor in a pretty much stock truck that is still practical?

[mudguts]

Looks good Mike D, it should pull your rig nicely 

[81RockerToy]

perhaps, I just wanted to burst your bubble in this testosterone spraying board.   

The guys got a nice motor.

[Mike D]

You two assholes make this board like pirate and I'm not bull shitting you I am telling you what I was told by t&D machine my port job alone is costing 500 bucks and this guy was trained by the people at LC and I have yet to post the other goodies that I am using. And I have the same valves as you skinny and i will be changing pistons anyway cause the ones that came with the kit are crap and i got a low end cam for rocks.

And skinny i didn't buy a fast car so why the hell would i race you.

[Mike D]

New goodies:

Keith black hyperuotectic pistons 92.75mm (just so the motor will be rebuildable again and more relaible)
custom made intake with a mustang 5.0 tb
420cc injectors
EFI SYS WITH SINGLE COIL IGN CONTROL    oh yeah
LC 1 5/8 header
and I'm gonna need a adjustable cam gear
and the bottom end is gonna be balanced

[WHITE_TRASH]

Wow is this a race to see who can waste the most money to make a 4 popper perform ALMOST as good as a stock tbi 4.3 or what?  You girls are having a useless pissing match and I suggest you all just shut up and let each other polish a turd.  Thanks for playing.

[h0nke]

post a pic of the custom intake and TB.....

[t-tenkid]

does your head look like this, i hope this will post

[t-tenkid]

o ya there aint no toy motor that puts out as much as the detriots i work on, 1800rpm-525hp.

[81RockerToy]

o ya there aint no toy motor that puts out as much as the detriots i work on, 1800rpm-525hp.

Yeah, and thats exactly what we're comparing the 22R too. 

[Skinny_Pedal]

Yeah, and thats exactly what we're comparing the 22R too. 

x2

fawking morons

[h0nke]

detroit  thats school bus material

cat 3406 rules

[BigMike]

Hey Mike,

This looks like the start of an awesome running engine! Congrats to your research and expenditure on this project! Here's one on me

only prob is tha tach they offer that looks like the other ones only goes to 7k

What do you expect to rev up to?

You two assholes make this board like pirate and I'm not bull shitting you I am telling you what I was told by t&D machine my port job alone is costing 500 bucks and this guy was trained by the people at LC

the port job that i am doing i will have 187 hp at the rear wheels

Hey Mike, I don't want to be like some Pirate dipwad, but seriously, 187 RWHP is like having about 245 HP at the crank of this 22R-E. Now I don't know if you are going to be squeezing some nos in there or turning a blower/turbine, but you should get it dyno'ed when you are finished, and then go back to this t&D machine guy who was trained by LC to get a huge refund from him lying to you.

Mike, please don't take this offensive, but PLEASE MAKE ME LOOK LIKE A FOO AND PROVE ME WRONG WITH A DYNO SHEET! Seriously, I have talked smack before on the 'R' engine when people try to pump out HP from them, and it would be good for someone (you) to prove me wrong with actual numbers.



I'll be watching your progress because you've got me all excited to see the results now!

[Greg_Canada]

that is 143 hp with all the performance stuff they offer and it was for a 22RE then you can port and polish the head deck the block and you'll be on your way to 160ish

No, that 143hp on a ported and polished 22r with dual sidedrafts (or was it a weber 38mm with an offy intake?).
Unless your going to a stand alone computer, stroker crank and 12:1 compression, you will never see 160hp from that motor, you cant get 60% more hp from a new head and pistons... but a nice mild build anyway.

Also, theif on 4x4wire has the most power out of a N/A 22re arouind, 162hp at the rear wheels, and he has over $7000 into his motor

[Toy4therock]

  Big Mike, Id rebuilt my 22RE  about 1 year ago.And I ported my own head but didnt clean out around the valve and guides.Due to the fact they were still in the head! But none the less, it took me some full 8 hours of all work! As I slightly opened the mouth of the intakes and same on the exhuast you leave the ramps alone on e bottoms as those are for velosity.Basicly its more of a real good cleaning and if opening the from the sides or top.But my goal was strickly in quciker throtle response and wanting to retain my torgue levels.And Id also bought a set of manley swirled valves in 1mm larger sizes and mega expensive with bronzed nitrated guides.However  once taking to the tech at total seal here in phx  where I live.He along with the machinist I used which came by matter of good facts.Both told me one I wouldnt notice much if any real difference and if at all all on the top end.And only if it was ported and relieved.Like inside the chamber around the valve.And so I hang onto them for the next engine Im going to build.And probably a garret turbo seeing as the SDS system Ive got is a real winning combe with that and can build some wild HP numbers with various fuels and boost and map setting changes and provided the engines built to with stand the amounts of boost.So mine will be a 200+ engine easy with both.However thats forced induction.I much like you felt that this engine had to be by all methods Id used in the 160 HP at least! But not so from my talking to afew who should know much better than us.SDS for one as the main answer man up there in calgary.Built these engine for his profession for the last decade and alot of high performance engine mostly hes a turbo freak.And along with another guy here in tucson, which frankly if not for the fact he has a flow bench.Id not had believed him.And he also builds alot of higher hp engines and afair amount of B.S..But with that in mind! And when I asked him whats the most you can achive from a stock VALVED 22RE head reguardless of what all else is done to the head.He told me about 140 is a pretty safe number.However Ive got it slightly beaten in that of the SDS adds another 12% and the Keith Black pistons in 9-7-1 and the desent lift in the crane cam.but that will only help assure Im getting all the air to the valves and then through.With alittle of both in lift and duration.Which will also knock down my compression just a tade due to over lapping of the valves.So now Im just hoping for 150? And thats with ALOT of hard work in all areas trying to pull out every squirrel from its nested spot!As Im also running the pro rocker shafts and all new rockers so the cam and those can brake in properly or cam failure is most certain! Plus my TB I bored myself as Ive got a way easy and far CHEAPER way than any 300 bucks.GEEZE what a rip off! Plus I did a real serious match porting from the TB all the way to my thorely try-y tube and flange.As some weld blockage was left.But a seriously great header! As it along in the last bone stock short block with my head and a scheinder lowend and midrange cam in the ,416 int & .430 exh lift with very little at all in duration and that came just from its lift.And with another great mod! My own free and tunned exhuast system! As Id bought a downey, JUNK! And as a direct result its now just an expensive cat in free flow thats left with some sections of that crappy and way to large 21/2" as 21/4" rules up to 200 hp then 21/2" So since that was somewhat of the remaining problem  along in it sounded like crap.As the four isnt any bang up sounding engine no matter what.So I knew one thing that would most likely make it work.And it DID very very well in fact it all came ALIVE! I added a S/C stainless supertrapp as you tune them and hey they look great! I wont ever run anything else on a non turbo.On those NO as these work from the scavaging of the exhuast.And turbo and chargers BLOW IT all OUT! So now Im about to fire up this new beast to life any day now as Im working out afew bugs and still need to reprogram some of the parameters into the SDS ECU.Then figure out my injector flow values.As I went with bosch injectors 50% larger due to the amounts of air through the stock injection and having to twist that wheel to far gave me an idea of what I needed to do.Tear it all right out! As now I have only four and inexpensive senors period.And no EGR valve etc and half the spagetti mess there was running all over in the most ugly mess and what a bear it was to work on!Way to much JUNK! Now its all nice and clean and no matter what it is! I can get at it all and like NOW! oil filter remote and the only way! new fuel filter high flow and with replacable filter  and a fuel pressure guage right after it so I can see when its building up and the pressures dropping.As thats all right on the frame rail in the right wheel frame top.And only one belt and four pulleys.Plus a big billet flywheel.Which Im hoping will help some on the highway hill climbs!And its all completely balanced.So I dont know as you and I will find out soon enough.Also I wouldnt entertain the stroker kits! As for all that dough you have to throw out! You will only see a whopping TEN HP! Now is that sick or what! Almost 2 grand for that joke?Hell you will see as much or more from a heavyer flywheel swap. In torgue that is like 20 to maybe 30% thats what they make claims to like all other so far except SDS they have all the years and resources and man alive do they know what there doing up there and with the products they sell!! As for the rest hogwash!Cut every HP increase in half!Because you must after alittle modification.Understand you can only get some much CFM through that valve diameter at once.Without forcing it in!And adding better fuels.Or building a big cammed monster with high CR and weber side draftsand larger tubed header,And the monster valves!So about all we can do is lighten up the load bearing across the boards.Vehicle weights and all in the drive drain where ever possable! And getting reid of as much as you can from the front of that little banger is the first and best of all moves and as much air flow into and some back out.As I swirled my intakes and polished out the exhuast ports.None of it is at all that hard and you can get by with not alot in expensive tools.As I used my craftsmen air compressor a cheap die grinder and some average home depot grinding stones and a dremel with rubber abrasives.Some sanding wheels on both and a wire brush that I literly cut the plastic handle off and stuck into a heavy duty drill.As long as you have the shaft length to work with and a pretty stiff steel wire brush.As when done it will look like twisted sister! In fact I have a complete gearhead family I welded up! Complete with gearhead dog and a child riding a funky go-ped! As made from various toyota part and afew harley and even some from bicycles and a gas weed wacker! So that brush turned into one of the gearhead womens hair.head!As I weld up various metal art forms is a real mig & Gas of a time! And so much that everyone whos seen my work has said, why on earth are you not selling this is great stuff! Because Im havent much time due to being on this computer and wrenching full time.And for a real long time toyota time no less tha four long years and metaling it all over the place inside and out.And like you I love to paint!I scalloped the beast.Only now I want to redo it! And then its going to be a real killer looker.Well I need to shut up and get to some work.Good luck on your engine there and its looking preety good.Say what make cam and lift is it?If your at all like I was.I loved the quick RPM swing so much I went bigger but only alittle.As we have to say in the limit or window of EFI and its vacuum.One last thing of greater importedence.My wordLOL I wouldnt mess with the plastic door on top of your air flow meter! As what that sprocket and spring will only do for you! IS place more resistance on that air door and so your getting robbed! If you want more power leave it alone! ADD bigger injectors thats the deal no doubt at all about that one!And one of many in all better ones why the SDS at 1200.00 who can go at all wrong!All adjustable parameters including plus and minus 50% injector flow rates and through out every single RPM range.And the same wildness on the ignition only no more distributor like no more mass air joke!And all those damned senseless sensors.GONE!later Wrenchin Randy

[BigMike]

Also, theif on 4x4wire has the most power out of a N/A 22re arouind, 162hp at the rear wheels, and he has over $7000 into his motor

That's impressive! I would love to throw $7k at my 4A-GZE and see what it could do. I'm sure Ryan would love to dish $7k on his Turbo Supra too!

[BigMike]

Big Mike, Id rebuilt my 22RE about 1 year ago.And I ported my own head but didnt clean out around the valve and guides.Due to the fact they were still in the head! But none the less, it took me some full 8 hours of all work! As I slightly opened the mouth of the intakes and same on the exhuast you leave the ramps alone on e bottoms as those are for velosity.Basicly its more of a real good cleaning and if opening the from the sides or top.But my goal was strickly in quciker throtle response and wanting to retain my torgue levels.And Id also bought a set of manley swirled valves in 1mm larger sizes and mega expensive with bronzed nitrated guides.However once taking to the tech at total seal here in phx where I live.He along with the machinist I used which came by matter of good facts.Both told me one I wouldnt notice much if any real difference and if at all all on the top end.And only if it was ported and relieved.Like inside the chamber around the valve.And so I hang onto them for the next engine Im going to build.And probably a garret turbo seeing as the SDS system Ive got is a real winning combe with that and can build some wild HP numbers with various fuels and boost and map setting changes and provided the engines built to with stand the amounts of boost.So mine will be a 200+ engine easy with both.However thats forced induction.I much like you felt that this engine had to be by all methods Id used in the 160 HP at least! But not so from my talking to afew who should know much better than us.SDS for one as the main answer man up there in calgary.Built these engine for his profession for the last decade and alot of high performance engine mostly hes a turbo freak.And along with another guy here in tucson, which frankly if not for the fact he has a flow bench.Id not had believed him.And he also builds alot of higher hp engines and afair amount of B.S..But with that in mind! And when I asked him whats the most you can achive from a stock VALVED 22RE head reguardless of what all else is done to the head.He told me about 140 is a pretty safe number.However Ive got it slightly beaten in that of the SDS adds another 12% and the Keith Black pistons in 9-7-1 and the desent lift in the crane cam.but that will only help assure Im getting all the air to the valves and then through.With alittle of both in lift and duration.Which will also knock down my compression just a tade due to over lapping of the valves.So now Im just hoping for 150? And thats with ALOT of hard work in all areas trying to pull out every squirrel from its nested spot!As Im also running the pro rocker shafts and all new rockers so the cam and those can brake in properly or cam failure is most certain! Plus my TB I bored myself as Ive got a way easy and far CHEAPER way than any 300 bucks.GEEZE what a rip off! Plus I did a real serious match porting from the TB all the way to my thorely try-y tube and flange.As some weld blockage was left.But a seriously great header! As it along in the last bone stock short block with my head and a scheinder lowend and midrange cam in the ,416 int & .430 exh lift with very little at all in duration and that came just from its lift.And with another great mod! My own free and tunned exhuast system! As Id bought a downey, JUNK! And as a direct result its now just an expensive cat in free flow thats left with some sections of that crappy and way to large 21/2" as 21/4" rules up to 200 hp then 21/2" So since that was somewhat of the remaining problem along in it sounded like crap.As the four isnt any bang up sounding engine no matter what.So I knew one thing that would most likely make it work.And it DID very very well in fact it all came ALIVE! I added a S/C stainless supertrapp as you tune them and hey they look great! I wont ever run anything else on a non turbo.On those NO as these work from the scavaging of the exhuast.And turbo and chargers BLOW IT all OUT! So now Im about to fire up this new beast to life any day now as Im working out afew bugs and still need to reprogram some of the parameters into the SDS ECU.Then figure out my injector flow values.As I went with bosch injectors 50% larger due to the amounts of air through the stock injection and having to twist that wheel to far gave me an idea of what I needed to do.Tear it all right out! As now I have only four and inexpensive senors period.And no EGR valve etc and half the spagetti mess there was running all over in the most ugly mess and what a bear it was to work on!Way to much JUNK! Now its all nice and clean and no matter what it is! I can get at it all and like NOW! oil filter remote and the only way! new fuel filter high flow and with replacable filter and a fuel pressure guage right after it so I can see when its building up and the pressures dropping.As thats all right on the frame rail in the right wheel frame top.And only one belt and four pulleys.Plus a big billet flywheel.Which Im hoping will help some on the highway hill climbs!And its all completely balanced.So I dont know as you and I will find out soon enough.Also I wouldnt entertain the stroker kits! As for all that dough you have to throw out! You will only see a whopping TEN HP! Now is that sick or what! Almost 2 grand for that joke?Hell you will see as much or more from a heavyer flywheel swap. In torgue that is like 20 to maybe 30% thats what they make claims to like all other so far except SDS they have all the years and resources and man alive do they know what there doing up there and with the products they sell!! As for the rest hogwash!Cut every HP increase in half!Because you must after alittle modification.Understand you can only get some much CFM through that valve diameter at once.Without forcing it in!And adding better fuels.Or building a big cammed monster with high CR and weber side draftsand larger tubed header,And the monster valves!So about all we can do is lighten up the load bearing across the boards.Vehicle weights and all in the drive drain where ever possable! And getting reid of as much as you can from the front of that little banger is the first and best of all moves and as much air flow into and some back out.As I swirled my intakes and polished out the exhuast ports.None of it is at all that hard and you can get by with not alot in expensive tools.As I used my craftsmen air compressor a cheap die grinder and some average home depot grinding stones and a dremel with rubber abrasives.Some sanding wheels on both and a wire brush that I literly cut the plastic handle off and stuck into a heavy duty drill.As long as you have the shaft length to work with and a pretty stiff steel wire brush.As when done it will look like twisted sister! In fact I have a complete gearhead family I welded up! Complete with gearhead dog and a child riding a funky go-ped! As made from various toyota part and afew harley and even some from bicycles and a gas weed wacker! So that brush turned into one of the gearhead womens hair.head!As I weld up various metal art forms is a real mig & Gas of a time! And so much that everyone whos seen my work has said, why on earth are you not selling this is great stuff! Because Im havent much time due to being on this computer and wrenching full time.And for a real long time toyota time no less tha four long years and metaling it all over the place inside and out.And like you I love to paint!I scalloped the beast.Only now I want to redo it! And then its going to be a real killer looker.Well I need to shut up and get to some work.Good luck on your engine there and its looking preety good.Say what make cam and lift is it?If your at all like I was.I loved the quick RPM swing so much I went bigger but only alittle.As we have to say in the limit or window of EFI and its vacuum.One last thing of greater importedence.My wordLOL I wouldnt mess with the plastic door on top of your air flow meter! As what that sprocket and spring will only do for you! IS place more resistance on that air door and so your getting robbed! If you want more power leave it alone! ADD bigger injectors thats the deal no doubt at all about that one!And one of many in all better ones why the SDS at 1200.00 who can go at all wrong!All adjustable parameters including plus and minus 50% injector flow rates and through out every single RPM range.And the same wildness on the ignition only no more distributor like no more mass air joke!And all those damned senseless sensors.GONE!later Wrenchin Randy

WoW I hope you can type like 200 words per min or something

[To The Floor]

And skinny i didn't buy a fast car so why the hell would i race you.

then why the hell are you dumping all this money into it to try and make it a fast car?  thats obviously what you're trying to do because you're worried about what horsepower numbers its going to throw out.  if you're building it for the rocks then how about you put money into suspension, you are wasting money on something that doesnt matter all that much on the rocks.  a 22re is a 22re, yeah more power helps out, so then save your money and do a 2.7 swap.  this aint a race car, so why build the motor like it is one?

[CTENG in KS]

WoW I hope you can type like 200 words per min or something

Seriously, can we get that broken into paragraphs by topic!?

[Ramrod]

if he is driving this 4runner to the con I can see the need for the extra power.  with my 22r I have to beat the hell out of it to get there so I am going to start building a motor almost exactly like mikes because I don't want to go through all the trouble  of a motor swap but I still want some good power.  is there something wrong with that?

[81RockerToy]

then why the hell are you dumping all this money into it to try and make it a fast car?  thats obviously what you're trying to do because you're worried about what horsepower numbers its going to throw out.  if you're building it for the rocks then how about you put money into suspension, you are wasting money on something that doesnt matter all that much on the rocks.  a 22re is a 22re, yeah more power helps out, so then save your money and do a 2.7 swap.  this aint a race car, so why build the motor like it is one?

He never said anything about making it fast, did he?

Is this Gavin or Nick talking?

-Gavin, you cant exactly say you went in order on any priority list either...

[Skinny_Pedal]

He never said anything about making it fast, did he?

Is this Gavin or Nick talking?

-Gavin, you cant exactly say you went in order on any priority list either...

thats nick talking gary. so please enlighten me on my priorty list. im dieing to hear this one

[t-tenkid]

soory-22r does do pretty good for how much it weighs, how much do you really need with dual t-cases.
im thinkin your gonna have enough.    

[Toy4therock]

  Hello Big Mike, Im real courious as to your comment about your 87 runner with the 4" lift and the 33" TSLS and the locker sucking major balls as it likes to break everything?? Why and what in particular is not up to par? Or do you just have really bad luck like I do! The reason for my asking is that of fear! As thats real close to exactly what Im running but in a 85 goata.Which is maybe what Im missing hey.And the only one thing to date Id had excellant luck with when it was running.It just never broke! However it was bone stock as even the tires may as well but been as they were 1" thats right 1 whole whopping inch taller than stock! But guess what? That one big inch was just enough to stop all but two rocks from ever hitting my front diff.As I watch and drive like a hawk! As well one can figure I hadnt gone to the places you guys have no doubt!Its been wheeled alot no doubt but all on regular type 4x4 roads.Ive not been but on afew and short and at that still not what one with a built rig could call a challenge! More in a rough spot in the road.But then again theres been many aday I was very happy to get off that unpaved surface as my lower back and butt was killing me and I was thankful my truck has no nerves are it would have been in tears with bleeding paws!Whats more Im very aware and alittle on the fearing side that Im about to find out what real 4wheelings really about and that includes as I read and would not at all doubt!! That anything that marlin would make or sell would be of all the best and in parts that were not paid for and would be needed then that would be addressed and left up to the buyer.But so far what Im seeing isnt of even that!! The man has addressed every issue so far and in a more than all far manner in every case no pun at all to date!Even down to the machine work for installing the reduction trail gears! You only pay the shipping? My god no one does anything that fair or nice! And the very first to come out with the dual cases and the reduction gearing, nows thats very impressive! Id say that anyone whod doubt or question in a poor manner.Is simply untactful and not real well read in this field.As I know or claim to know not much but I do read alot and have a great amount of better commonsense.And Im a greenhorn all the way! But I was impressed imediately by all that Ive seen in parts and the knowledge gone into not only the many products but in how its all put together for you and not tacked on and on adding to the climbing end results as so many others all do.Marlin simply doesnt at all! Whats more is the man is very fair in all of that Ive seen.If not in some areas a down right bargin! As I am a very handy person named Randy.And Im not that handy to weld up and the time and materials and all the thought and screwing around to even think twice about it with the prices that are very nice here and in a feeling of safety in that its all been done and right without the surprise!

[Toy4therock]

 :bull crap: As to the comment about Mikes engine on steroids and better off with a toyota V6! Hogwash! You are not well known in the toyota engine world my friend! As for starters, Mikes engine is rather a mellow buildup as if it was not it wouldnt be any good for what he plans to use it for.Whats more is the 22RE can be built to flat blow away anything V6 toyota much less most make.In the pure fact there is so much out there to choose from in a performance stand point.And which there simply is not for the V6.Headers possably afew cams and afew others period.Where as the four banger for your better banged buck.Can be built extremely strong.In that of stronger rods and with a varirity of crankshafts from which to choose.Pistons almost in the dozon.As well the camshaft in double that.And now for the kill! With the SDS EM-4F digital ijection and ignition system with all adjustable parameters throughout.And only a map sensor change and a compression ratio of like 7-5-1. Garret ceramic bearing turbo in low boost and the rest of the engine basicly bone stock! And still running pump fuel ! Will put out an easy 200 hp as SDS has pulled out up to 300 hp so far on pump fuel and they almost always when testing there systems for any public knowledge.Use stock engines and altar the turbos and fuels as one test which wasnt a toyota but none the less an equal only lesser than a 22RE in cc or cubic inch.On there last pull working there way up in boost and fuels.Ending with pure methenal, pulled like 640 hp out of a small squirrel cage! Obviously not while under a load and they said dont anyone else attemp this as its insanitys attemp at what could be achived only.Whats more is that Id take a bone stock 22RE over a V6 of any make for just crawling any day of the year! Due to they put out a great amount of lowend torgue along in that there lighter.And even as Im no  more than a crawler in diapers.Ive done plenty of wheeling throughout my life and all over this state and alot up in southwestern colorado! Only I rented jeeps every time for the first three years.And if I ever had my choice.It was always the stright six with the five speed over anything else.And back then there was no injection like today.And we wheeled up to 12,250 feet without any known difference at all.You caouldnt say as much for the V8 with that aweful three speed! In fact Id taken one of the jeeps through what Id not ever dare do again umless in a swapp buggy! Across an alpine swapp! That due to time and real rough slow going along in more of that same ol.I opted for real adventure! Like right out of some adventure movie! Complete in black merky water with only a log end sticking out here and there heading across.Spelling nothing good to anyone with better sense than balls of steel attached to a lead foot and all in low range and soon heading for blue sky!As Id told my wife of the time! To buckle up good and hang on tight the shut up part came as a natural no damned doubt!As we literly LUANCHED OFF! and into that black and now flying up and everywhere as I could hardly see even through the windsheild and hell for the other side in all white knuckles with a heart rate to equal the engines RPMS!And every time.We hit a spot where the logs had been up heviled from anothers fast foot.We would only first feel as if it was all and only straight up and like four feet up no less! That jeep hopped like perters meter heading for love! That was on that farther than looked when still on that safer other.But then we had all of a sudden some how made it? Both dripping in black swapp water and starting to laugh!Our things were everywhere thrown into all mess.My sunglasses were sunwhere or I did hope and did find thank god! As Id just bought them in telluride the day before.So knowing her as well as I did! I asked her to promise me she not tell the nice man that let us take his best cream puff out and for free that day! As the day before our jeep had broken the shifter keeper cup above the ball at the top of the trans.No big deal really as long as you kept constsnt downward pressure on it or as we found out youd play hell getting out of like reverse when it first broke!! And so I went to telluride and phoned him and he was shocked? As he thought and said wait a minute you were still able to figure it out and then drove to tell me? YES oh my god! Can you make it back here ok? Ya sure why? Because Im alone and have to close down and loose out on all gas sales and jeep rentals if I do.Dont worrie see ya in afew! and so that was his way of thnaking us! And my wifes idea was in telling him I then drove through black oak arkansas! I seen god at the other side!Only then it all went red about the time I heard my worst fears lips moving those words! Only he smiled and said your abit different than most I have renting my jeeps.OH swallowing hard.He said ya you do pretty damned well for someone whos not even a weekend warrior no doubt! As not to long ago a big F-250 which youd thought had enough horse power and long wheelbase and god knows what else maybe?He got stuck just over the halfway mark and sunk up to his headlights in that black hole!It took two more as big as him and help by winches and then to his and couldnt get him out.Untill then they told him to fire it up and so did the othertwo and them in revervse all at the same time stand on it and go for freedom or broke? Only it barley worked at first as it started slow and in what those standing but off to the sides! Said, sounded like an aweful sucktion as that big ol beast come crawling out of all black deep nasty hell! And god only knows if you would had some how hit the same hole? Where did yoy think my jeeep wasss at last time you seen or felt it! OH MY GOD!Yes so we dont try what we all know is like flirting with certain to worse in all disaster! BUt dont feel badly as you faired really well indeed! But I cant afford to keep you in rewards for the job well done.I said thats fine as we have to leave in the am as it is.But thank you and for the good times no doubt!  

[81RockerToy]

thats nick talking gary. so please enlighten me on my priorty list. im dieing to hear this one

You think putting all your money into a project truck only to put it aside (for a year) while you beef the motor in a second (stock) rig is good priorities?    ...And then you act like your a motor man by dissing on Mike's mods 

  enlightened you are.