Doesn't welding to your frame, screw up the Temper ???

[Diggertoy]

I'm interested in getting the armor bars for the truck , but am concerned with screwing up the temper of the frame !!!

When you guys are using SMAW , are you using 7018, 6010, or ? 

Thanks for your help !!

[Hyena]

Won't hurt the temper.  The rock sliders will actually stiffen up the frame.

[germ]

I can't speak to the metalurgy of welding, cause I don't know. I have had some friends with Heeps and they have welded their frames a couple of times and continue to get cracks. Not sure if it's cause the metal gets weak, or they just have a high stress point that they should be bracing instead of just re-welding.

Erik 

[MiniSimp]

Considering there are about 100,000 trucks with rock sliders, i think you'll be ok.
Are you welding them on?

[WHITE_TRASH]

Dont worry about the temper of the frame.  Its just mild steel so there really isnt any temper to screw up.  I would recommend plating the frame where you weld the sliders on.  You'll want to weld on square plates so they look like a diamond when viewed from the side.  That will help eliminate strength issues wiht welding to the frame.

[MiniSimp]

Or, just weld your plate on to your sliders, then weld that plate to the frame

[Diggertoy]

Great Thanks for the Help !!

[toybuilt]

Or, just weld your plate on to your sliders, then weld that plate to the frame

thats what I did

[b_ripper8]

A good friend of mine has taken many courses on metalurgy and says that Toyota frames are a loy alloy metal and if you want to avoid cracking/splitting/bending you should always pre-heat and post-heat after any welding. I did this on my SAS'd truck and haven't had any problems.

[Willy Mammoth]

A good friend of mine has taken many courses on metalurgy and says that Toyota frames are a loy alloy metal and if you want to avoid cracking/splitting/bending you should always pre-heat and post-heat after any welding. I did this on my SAS'd truck and haven't had any problems.

That may be, but heating the metal will only cause the metal to loose its temper. I would not recommend pre heating the frame for this reason. Just MIG it and don't look back.

On another note, if you have a piece of steel you can't drill you can heat it till it is at least blue and let it cool slowly. This will soften it. You can reheat it and stir it around in some used diesel oil to harden it again. Just make sure you have enough oil to completely submerge it or it will catch fire to the oil.

[b_ripper8]

Mr. Willy,
I'm not talking about excessivly heating it, you just don't want to go from extreme cold to extreme hot. So a little pre-heating helps. This is actually proven where I come from (Alaska) and two other guys I know have lost their shock mounts and actually took a hole out of the frame. My truck and my buddies truck have never had this problem. Just my experiences.

[Diggertoy]

What about Bolting the bars instead and welding the Nuts and bolts to the armor itself, then all I have to do is drill holes to bolt through ..........this way sounds better to me

[KYOTA]

Drilling through your frame could potentially cause more damage than welding on it, giving cracks a place to start

[Duffil]

yeah, why give em a place to start?! i welded my sliders.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Sure you could bolt them on but if it was me doing it Id mount them just like a steering box.  Drill the outside holes to about 7/8" and sleeve minimum of 1/2" bolts into the frame and tac weld the sleeves on the outside of the frame and then make plates that fit the frame on the inside and the outside to put a deathgrip on the frame.  It actually takes more time and effort to bolt them on correctly than it does to just weld them on.  

[robinhood4x4]

yeah, why give em a place to start?! i welded my sliders.

Welding gives it a place to start too, you just can't see it.   

Either way, it's just sliders, it aint rocket science...either way is fine.

[Tom]

I commonly work with checking and verifying welds on exotic materials and common steels in my field (I am a materials engineer with degrees in mechnical and aerospace engineering and work on defense satellites).  The propensity for cracks comes from changing the form of the metal around the weld.  Any metal will have a heat affected zone (HAZ) around the weld.  This zone is usually a slightly lower strength than the base metal.  If the right filler metal (welding rod) is used to match the base then the strength can come close to or equal the original metal.  If not then you can have differences in properties and problems.  Preheating (and heating while welding) is commonly used on aluminum due to the high heat transfer of Al.  The heat is quickly drawn from the weld area and the center of the welds will crack due to the differences in cooling rates of the weld and the material directly around it.  By heating the Al (not too much) then some of the cooling is slowed and the propensity for cracks is lessened.  Having clean base metal and clean welding rods (not a year old spool of wire) will greatly improve the weld strength.  Some people say it is good to heat the area after with a torch to remove some of the stress in the weld.  This is usually very bad.  If you heat it too much you will reanneal the metal, causing it to become soft and lose its properties.  You can retemper the steel after welding, but the heat must be controlled very tightly to ensure that you do not go into a phase transformation of the metal. 
The warning of welding on frames is usually seen in semi trucks.  Their frames are a higher alloy and welding will cause the frame to not function as it should by changing material properties.

Having cracks in frames around welds on steel is usually due to a few main factors: dirty base metal, dirty welding rod, or using the wrong welder settings and technique leaving bubbles or small cracks in the weld initially.  Starting with these defects will give the cracks a place to propogate and damage is done.

Welding in Alaska may have something to do with the temp, but Im not sure.

Tom

[KYOTA]

it aint rocket science...

pretty much sums it up 

[MiniSimp]

pretty much sums it up 

[b_ripper8]

Great post Tom, thanks for the information. 

[Diggertoy]

Thanks Tom !!! So would 7018 be better or Mig be better for a yota frame.......I know there just bars , but I want to do it correctly !

Thanks All for your help ........Oh and sorry for being such a Dickhead on my previous posts.....I know Marlin has a loyal following and I want to follow , too !!

Mike

[Willy Mammoth]

Oh and sorry for being such a Dickhead on my previous posts.....I know Marlin has a loyal following and I want to follow , too !!

I except for all of us, just remmember we are all on the same side.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Just mig it up and be done.  Simple and effective.

[toybuilt]

I've mig welded everything on my truck, never have had a problem

[crawlerdan]

ivw always mig welded, just make sure that everything is relatively clean and that you run hot enough to make full penetration, as for the frame, wouldnt worry about it, ive welded cracks in the frame shut, after drilling holes in the ends of course

[thestoic22]

On this note, I was just wondering what size mig welder you all are using.  I am looking at purchasing a Millermatic 175 because everyone tells me that it's the most versatile.  What do you all think?  There are plenty of 115V models out there that are cheaper, but people talk trash about them.  I would like the opinions of like-minded individuals that would probably use their welder in the same applications that I would. 

[crawlerdan]

get as big as you can affoird, you will thank yourself later

[Hyena]

get as big as you can affoird, you will thank yourself later

[bmxanddie]

get a 210 and never look back

[toybuilt]

I have a miller 210, love it to death!