Author Topic: Beat to death, but SAS? (Read 13774 times)

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #30 on:** Apr 20, 2005, 11:48:08 PM »

do i need shock forthe front right away? or can I run without them? I know I can run w/o the rear, did that for a while

whiteman · « **Reply #31 on:** Apr 21, 2005, 04:03:19 PM »

You should be alright with out running front shocks but i would not do any more driving than possible, i think it would really put a whoopin on you springs though, might make them sag sooner. As far as I know the ifs steering system is the one you want for solid axle swaps? I think.

Hyena · « **Reply #32 on:** Apr 21, 2005, 07:13:00 PM »

Your steering box will work but you will need crossover or high steer. You can run without front shocks but be careful. You will have a loooot of body roll. Metal for the front crossmember will be around $50-$80 at most (can have someone on here build it before hand including myself). Then you will need to do something about your front driveline. Square or have yours lengthend. Springs we can take care of. What kind of shackles do you want to run? Most likely 2 inch lift shackles? then you need the axle, you need 5.29's for a 8 inch since the 7.5 inch won't work. Decide if you want a locker/can afford a locker. Get a rebuild kit for the axle you buy (always a good decision). Some other things will pop up later.

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #33 on:** Apr 21, 2005, 10:38:01 PM »

What are the advantages of different shackles? I'm lookin for about 4" of lift. I couldt take the locker out of the IFS diff, couldnt I?? I would probably just square the driveshaft.

Hyena · « **Reply #34 on:** Apr 22, 2005, 07:06:53 PM »

The ifs locker won't work in an 8 inch diff. The size of shackles depends on were the spring is located/ were the shackle is mounted.

gturismo · « **Reply #35 on:** Apr 22, 2005, 07:58:26 PM »

Another vote for the toy front axle. Keep it Toyota as much as possible.

I know 5.38 and 5.29 are really close, but I wouldn't try that on my truck.

IronClad · « **Reply #36 on:** Apr 22, 2005, 11:24:14 PM »

i know tons of people that run the 5.38/5.29 setup and have ZERO problems. they are so close it doesnt make much of a difference. If your ratios are within a certian % its cool. Id run the 44 front if you want a little bit better width up front and better steering. otherwise id go with the toy since stock its a tad stronger. gotta think about birfields like this. 6 points of contact over 4

not really into the whole keep it toyota because its a toyota.. i run a welded 10 bolt and 12 bolt in my rig and ive broken less parts than with my toyota stuff. i have better steering and more width for steeper sidehills and such. mucho stable i love it. but anyway my

aswell

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #37 on:** Apr 24, 2005, 10:48:39 PM »

thanks for the info.

Iam slowly starting tocollect parts, can anyone add to the list

shocks
axle
leaf springs
d- shaft
gears
hi-steer
extended brake lines
locker

Hyena · « **Reply #38 on:** Apr 25, 2005, 07:39:47 AM »

2 sets of rear springs. $40

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #39 on:** Apr 25, 2005, 10:57:02 AM »

I'll probably hit you up for those after I get finished moving

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #40 on:** Apr 26, 2005, 12:48:29 PM »

anything I missed?

Hyena · « **Reply #41 on:** Apr 26, 2005, 04:51:43 PM »

If you are gonna tear the front axle apart for the gears and locker then your gonna need a rebuild kit.

Westy · « **Reply #42 on:** Apr 26, 2005, 07:54:10 PM »

toyota axles with 27 or 30 spline long chromo's and you are good for up to 38sx's or so...and then just have fun till you want to go bigger then just do 60 it...if u are gonna go fullsize just do d60s or nothin..

HFCRAOffroading · « **Reply #43 on:** Apr 27, 2005, 06:12:49 PM »

Here is a write up on my current 91 Toyota SAS and various things that is on going at this time:

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=10551.0

Dallas has been doing a good job of keeping it updated. The rear axle should be completed tonight with pics being posted as soon as possible.

Jack

colter · « **Reply #44 on:** Apr 28, 2005, 07:12:26 AM »

Def. keep it all toyota. oh, and you'll want to brace the F250 shock mounts as they've been known to rip off.

1tonCroozer · « **Reply #45 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 02:21:13 AM »

I'm using a D44 in my Runner. 5.38's and 5.29's in the rear. It's not done.

Used a Chevy D44, cut it down to get 62" WMS. Uses a 80+ Waggy long side and a 76+ Dodge short side inner.

I'm after a little more width, stronger housing and better turning ability. Nothing wrong at all with Yota front axles and if I didn't need the width, I would have gone with one. Bobby and Marlin have made it one tough axle.

shad · « **Reply #46 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 07:20:58 AM »

BTW those Ford F250 shock towers went up in price I just bought a set. They are upto $12 ea now compared to what they used to cost $8ea which isn't a big deal compared to more pricey ones which do the same job.

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #47 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 02:06:26 PM »

Whatever you do do not go Dana 44. That axle is not as strong as people think. Even after you throw a bunch of superior parts into it. If you need the width go dana 60. If not. Stick with the Toy axle, yes it will cost you for the 30 spline axles but in the long run you will be much happier. Better to dish out the $ now in a good setup than more and more $ in the long run, running a medeocre axle.

1tonCroozer · « **Reply #48 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 03:26:04 PM »

running a medeocre axle.

What are Toy's now considered? Ultra Beef?

Toy axle require just as much work to make hold up to anything about 37's as a D44. Although, you will always have a weaker housing (1/4 compared to 1/2") no turning radius and your ring and pinion become the weak point after those 30 spline shafts and barf's get put in. Honestly, stock D44 shafts are dirt cheap and easy to find and I can break 15 shafts and u-joints before it would even equal the cost of replacing a ring and pinion and even more if the locker got taken out (detroits are known to fail quite a bit and easily in Toy applications).

You can say all you want about the D44 not being as strong as a Toy axle (which is both stupid and ignorant to say) they are about equal with both having good and bad points.

You loose a bit of clearance with the D44.
It costs a bit more to upgrade to Chromo shafts AND CTM's. (about $200 more)
They require either narrowing or leaving full width to work in our application. (If you can do a SAS, you can narrow a axle. Plus, you really need to turn your knuckles anyway on either axle)
Shafts are easy and abundant to find...lets not forget CHEAP.

With the Toy:
You don't have the turning radius.
You have a weaker housing and more prone to bend and tweak.
Your knuckles aren't as strong as stock D44's (yes, you can upgrade them now but again, more $$)
The ring and pinions are now a failure point and I guess you could cryo them (more $$$)
Your stuck with either running spacers and or narrow offset wheels to gain any kind of width (unless you get a aftermarket housing....more $$$)
Shafts are hard to find now unless your ordering new stuff from bobby. Still not cheap.

So really, it's a MOOT point. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I went with a D44 for a few reasons but that was my choice and I'm happy. They have ups and downs either way but to say it's dumb to go with a D44 is ignorant on YOUR part. I'm not trying to start a war or anything, but do some research before you bash something you really don't know anything about. If you haven't swapped in a D44 or built one, don't run it down. It may be a better option for him. It may not. He's talking going full width soon. I would say WHY dump over 2k into ANY axle but a D60? You'll never get your money's worth out a Toy or D44.

That's just my buck and

1tonCroozer · « **Reply #49 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 05:07:32 PM »

Did I forget to add D44's have larger brakes?

IronClad · « **Reply #50 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 05:31:34 PM »

tis why i went with a 10bolt front

gears are stronger than both the 44 and the toy and i can get shafts for almost free all day long

you guys saying keep it toyota are funny.

1tonCroozer · « **Reply #51 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 05:40:52 PM »

Funny you should mention that, but he's right. People bash the heck out of 10 bolts but they are a strong front axle.

IronClad · « **Reply #52 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 08:28:12 PM »

Know whats funny ? mines welded and i run 37's and ive never broken a shaft even while in 2nd gear 4lo loading up the front end nice and tight with a 5k clutch dump. I broke birfs with a open front end and 37s. and they were Newfields !

1tonCroozer · « **Reply #53 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 08:29:12 PM »

IronClad · « **Reply #54 on:** Apr 29, 2005, 08:39:40 PM »

Not bashing toyota axles though ! they can be built tough as hell. I was just sold on the 10 bolt when you look at parts vs parts. while the inners are 28 spline they do not neck down like a 44 shaft does. the ring and pinion are giant compared to a toy and 44. It uses the same ujoints and outers as a 44 and has a little bit bigger brakes ( had to grind calipers to fit a 2.5" bs 15x8 wheel). but hey i dont know much.. i stuck a 10 bolt and 12 bolt under a toyota and have broke less than with my toyota axles

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #55 on:** Apr 30, 2005, 04:49:41 PM »

thanks for all the input. My $$ flow isnt enough to go with the 30 splines and what not, that is why I want a comparison. I want an axle that would be fairly cheap to get, and cheap to maintain. I know I can get a 44 or 10 bolt for cheaper than a toy axle, and i know I can get the parts as well (can we say PnP

)

Keep up the comparison, I wanna have all this available, when I finish collecting cash, and start collecting parts $Beer Chug\'n$ thanks a lot!!

IronClad · « **Reply #56 on:** Apr 30, 2005, 06:42:42 PM »

cool thing about half ton GM parts is you can get them for cheap or free. i got my 10bolt and 12 bolt for 50 bucks (pair) all i had to do was regear them and put some locking hubs on. so i probably have about 600 bucksish into my fullwidth conversion axles, gears, steel for front crossmember, steering and a conversion flange for the rearend to run toyota ujoints and i made my own flange for the front since i didnt care about balance (can still get up to about 50mph with a square shaft and welded toyota flange to 10 bolt yoke lol). werks guuuuud.

But hey if you wana go toyota thats cool. sometimes its nicer to stay that way since parts match better. but just giving you other options to explore. Just cuz its a toyota dont mean you gotta keep it toyota

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #57 on:** May 04, 2005, 10:38:34 AM »

I'd like to go full width, What else would I need to do if I did fullwidth now? would it be the same process as the SAS with a yota axle?? aside from putting on a rear axle as well? would I have to move my spring hangrs out for the full width axles? or would the rear pretty much bolt up? and what else for the front. for simplicity I wouldnt mind keepin it all the same, but I would like full width, and I wanna tear into my truck some more

Like Ironclad mentioned, I can get half ton axles for pretty cheap, and 1 tons for a little more. If I did a SAS, I wouldnt be able to run anything more than stock axles right now anyway, $$ issues so I am looking at cheap strength.

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #58 on:** May 04, 2005, 10:43:12 AM »

also, would the toyota drivetrain components be able to handle the 60s?

IronClad · « **Reply #59 on:** May 04, 2005, 10:54:05 AM »

on the front you would need to make a little bit wider spring hanger to center the axle up. on the rear axle you just have to move perches . so then its brake lines, steering, driveshafts and other little misc odds and ends. For the rear axle i would get a conversion flange to run toyota joints and on the front you can cut up a old flange from a toyota diff and just weld it to the yoke.. you really need a flange on the front end to run yota joints to be able to have any kind of angle. trust me on that ! i tried to run a bastardized front shaft with a single yota joint up top and a 1310 on the bottom.. drove the truck 2 feet in my driveway and it snapped down at the spicer stuff ( straps and caps split) Id suggest upgrading to a bigger mastercylender to handle the brakes aswell ( can get a corvette m/c from kragen or somewheres.. 1 1/4" bore what i run) and make an adapter plate out of a piece of 3/8ths plate. if i think of anything else i'll post up.

The yota drivetrain will hold up to 60's no problemo.

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