Beat to death, but SAS?

[BLACKDOG]

do i need shock forthe front right away? or can I run without them?  I know I can run w/o the rear, did that for a while

[whiteman]

You should be alright with out running front shocks but i would not do any more driving than possible,  i think it would really put a whoopin on you springs though,  might make them sag sooner.  As far as I know the ifs steering system is the one you want for solid axle swaps?  I think.

[Hyena]

Your steering box will work but you will need crossover or high steer.  You can run without front shocks but be careful.  You will have a loooot of body roll.  Metal for the front crossmember will be around $50-$80 at most (can have someone on here build it before hand including myself).  Then you will need to do something about your front driveline.  Square or have yours lengthend.  Springs we can take care of.  What kind of shackles do you want to run?  Most likely 2 inch lift shackles?  then you need the axle, you need 5.29's for a 8 inch since the 7.5 inch won't work.  Decide if you want a locker/can afford a locker.  Get a rebuild kit for the axle you buy (always a good decision).  Some other things will pop up later.

[BLACKDOG]

What are the advantages of different shackles?  I'm lookin for about 4" of lift.  I couldt take the locker out of the IFS diff, couldnt I??  I would probably just square the driveshaft.

[Hyena]

The ifs locker won't work in an 8 inch diff.  The size of shackles depends on were the spring is located/ were the shackle is mounted.

[gturismo]

Another vote for the toy front axle.  Keep it Toyota as much as possible.

I know 5.38 and 5.29 are really close, but I wouldn't try that on my truck.

[IronClad]

i know tons of people that run the 5.38/5.29 setup and have ZERO problems. they are so close it  doesnt make  much of a difference.  If your ratios are within a certian %  its cool.   Id run the 44 front if you want a little bit better width up front and better steering. otherwise id go with the toy since  stock its a tad stronger.  gotta think about birfields like this.  6 points of contact over 4

not really into the whole keep it toyota because its  a toyota..  i run a  welded 10 bolt and 12 bolt  in my rig and ive broken less parts than with my toyota stuff.  i have better steering and more width for steeper sidehills and such.  mucho stable  i love it.  but anyway  my     aswell

[BLACKDOG]

thanks for the info. 

Iam slowly starting tocollect parts, can anyone add to the list

shocks
axle
leaf springs
d- shaft
gears
hi-steer
extended brake lines
locker

[Hyena]

2 sets of rear springs.  $40

[BLACKDOG]

I'll probably hit you up for those after I get finished moving

[BLACKDOG]

anything I missed?

[Hyena]

If you are gonna tear the front axle apart for the gears and locker then your gonna need a rebuild kit.

[Westy]

toyota axles with 27 or 30 spline long chromo's and you are good for up to 38sx's or so...and then just have fun till you want to go bigger then just do 60 it...if u are gonna go fullsize just do d60s or nothin..

[HFCRAOffroading]

Here is a write up on my current 91 Toyota SAS and various things that is on going at this time:

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=10551.0

Dallas has been doing a good job of keeping it updated.  The rear axle should be completed tonight with pics being posted as soon as possible.

   Jack

[colter]

Def. keep it all toyota. oh, and you'll want to brace the F250 shock mounts as they've been known to rip off.

[1tonCroozer]

I'm using a D44 in my Runner. 5.38's and 5.29's in the rear. It's not done.

Used a Chevy D44, cut it down to get 62" WMS. Uses a 80+ Waggy long side and a 76+ Dodge short side inner.

I'm after a little more width, stronger housing and better turning ability. Nothing wrong at all with Yota front axles and if I didn't need the width, I would have gone with one. Bobby and Marlin have made it one tough axle.

[shad]

BTW those Ford F250 shock towers went up in price I just bought a set. They are upto $12 ea now compared to what they used to cost $8ea which isn't a big deal compared to more pricey ones which do the same job.

[guywithuglyyota]

Whatever you do do not go Dana 44. That axle is not as strong as people think. Even after you throw a bunch of superior parts into it. If you need the width go dana 60. If not. Stick with the Toy axle, yes it will cost you for the 30 spline axles but in the long run you will be much happier. Better to dish out the $ now in a good setup than more and more $ in the long run, running a medeocre axle.

[1tonCroozer]

running a medeocre axle.

What are Toy's now considered? Ultra Beef? 

Toy axle require just as much work to make hold up to anything about 37's as a D44. Although, you will always have a weaker housing (1/4 compared to 1/2") no turning radius and your ring and pinion become the weak point after those 30 spline shafts and barf's get put in. Honestly, stock D44 shafts are dirt cheap and easy to find and I can break 15 shafts and u-joints before it would even equal the cost of replacing a ring and pinion and even more if the locker got taken out (detroits are known to fail quite a bit and easily in Toy applications).


You can say all you want about the D44 not being as strong as a Toy axle (which is both stupid and ignorant to say) they are about equal with both having good and bad points.


You loose a bit of clearance with the D44.
It costs a bit more to upgrade to Chromo shafts AND CTM's. (about $200 more)
They require either narrowing or leaving full width to work in our application. (If you can do a SAS, you can narrow a axle. Plus, you really need to turn your knuckles anyway on either axle)
Shafts are easy and abundant to find...lets not forget CHEAP.


With the Toy:
You don't have the turning radius.
You have a weaker housing and more prone to bend and tweak.
Your knuckles aren't as strong as stock D44's (yes, you can upgrade them now but again, more $$)
The ring and pinions are now a failure point and I guess you could cryo them (more $$$)
Your stuck with either running spacers and or narrow offset wheels to gain any kind of width (unless you get a aftermarket housing....more $$$)
Shafts are hard to find now unless your ordering new stuff from bobby. Still not cheap.

So really, it's a MOOT point. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I went with a D44 for a few reasons but that was my choice and I'm happy. They have ups and downs either way but to say it's dumb to go with a D44 is ignorant on YOUR part. I'm not trying to start a war or anything, but do some research before you bash something you really don't know anything about. If you haven't swapped in a D44 or built one, don't run it down. It may be a better option for him. It may not. He's talking going full width soon. I would say WHY dump over 2k into ANY axle but a D60? You'll never get your money's worth out a Toy or D44.

That's just my buck and  

[1tonCroozer]

Did I forget to add D44's have larger brakes? 

[IronClad]

tis why i went with a 10bolt front    gears are stronger than both the 44 and the toy and i can get shafts  for almost free all day long     you guys saying keep it toyota  are  funny.

[1tonCroozer]

Funny you should mention that, but he's right. People bash the heck out of 10 bolts but they are a strong front axle.

[IronClad]

Know whats funny ?  mines welded and i run 37's and ive never broken a shaft  even while in 2nd gear 4lo loading up the front end nice and tight  with a 5k clutch dump.  I broke birfs with a open front end and 37s. and they were Newfields !

[1tonCroozer]

 

[IronClad]

Not bashing toyota axles though ! they can be built tough as hell. I was just sold on the 10 bolt when you look at parts vs parts.  while the inners are 28 spline they do not neck down like a 44 shaft  does.  the ring and pinion  are giant  compared  to a toy and 44.  It uses the same ujoints and outers as a 44 and has a little bit bigger brakes ( had to grind calipers to fit a 2.5" bs  15x8 wheel).   but  hey i dont know much.. i stuck a 10 bolt and 12 bolt under a toyota and have broke less than with my toyota axles   

[BLACKDOG]

thanks for all the input.  My $$ flow isnt enough to go with the 30 splines and what not, that is why I want a comparison.  I want an axle that would be fairly cheap to get, and cheap to maintain.  I know I can get a 44 or 10 bolt for cheaper than a toy axle, and i know I can get the parts as well (can we say PnP )

Keep up the comparison, I wanna have all this available, when I finish collecting cash, and start collecting parts   thanks a lot!!

[IronClad]

cool thing about half ton GM parts is you can get them for cheap or free.  i got my 10bolt and 12 bolt for 50 bucks (pair)  all i had to do was regear them  and put some locking hubs on.  so i probably have about  600 bucksish into my fullwidth conversion  axles, gears, steel for front crossmember, steering and a conversion flange for the rearend to run toyota ujoints and i made my own flange for the front since i didnt care about balance  (can still get up to about 50mph with a square shaft and welded toyota flange to 10 bolt yoke lol). werks guuuuud. 

But hey if you wana go toyota thats cool.   sometimes its nicer to stay that way since parts match better. but just giving you other options to explore.  Just cuz its a toyota dont mean you gotta keep it toyota 

[BLACKDOG]

I'd like to go full width, What else would I need to do if I did fullwidth now?  would it be the same process as the SAS with a yota axle??  aside from putting on a rear axle as well?  would I have to move my spring hangrs out for the full width axles?  or would the rear pretty much bolt up?  and what else for the front.  for simplicity I wouldnt mind keepin it all the  same, but I would like full width, and I wanna tear into my truck some more

Like Ironclad mentioned, I can get half ton axles for pretty cheap, and 1 tons for a little more.  If I did a SAS, I wouldnt be able to run anything more than stock axles right now anyway, $$ issues so I am looking at cheap strength. 

[BLACKDOG]

also, would the toyota drivetrain components be able to handle the 60s?

[IronClad]

on the front you would need to make a little bit wider spring hanger to center the axle up.  on the rear axle you just have to move perches . so then its brake lines, steering, driveshafts  and other little misc  odds and ends.  For the rear axle i would get a conversion flange to run toyota joints  and on the front you can cut up a old  flange from a toyota diff and just weld it to the yoke.. you really need a flange on the front end to run yota joints to be able to have any kind of angle.  trust me on that !    i tried to run  a bastardized front shaft with a single yota joint up top and a 1310 on the bottom..  drove the truck 2 feet in my driveway  and it snapped down at the spicer stuff ( straps and caps split)   Id suggest  upgrading to a bigger mastercylender to handle the brakes aswell ( can get a corvette m/c  from kragen or somewheres..  1 1/4"  bore what i run)  and make an adapter plate out of a piece of 3/8ths  plate.   if i think of anything else i'll post up.

The yota drivetrain will hold up to 60's no problemo.