Topic: the Marty project – Front Suspension Ideas

[ASI H8]

I have some steering questions posted, titled “the Marty project – Axle and Steering questions”.
Project is an all Toyota, 1985 Resto-Mod from 2wd to solid front axle 4wd.  Use is a part time DD that will pull an overlanding trailer from time to time and do some mild wheeling.  It will start on 30” tires though the suspension will be designed for 33” tires.  I’m leaning towards Chevy 63s in the rear.  I have a mini truck front axle housing now.  I’ll use IFS outters from the 2000 4Runner donor.  I’ll need to gather the rest of the parts to complete the front axle to include steering arms and pitman.
First – With the front end of a SAS, what should one consider first, Suspension or Steering?
Second – OEM vs. RUF is an ongoing debate.  With RUF, is it advantageous to purchase new rears with lift for the front. 
Third – I plan to run Chevy 63" rear springs using Sky mounts.  I would suspect the Chevy springs will pick up the rear and I'll need to match the front.  What amount of lift is needed for OEM and or RUF springs considering the added weight of the V6, auto trans, to match Chevy 63” in the rear?

Questions will continue until the voices in my head stop.
Thank you in advance

[toyodaaddict]

"First – With the front end of a SAS, what should one consider first, Suspension or Steering?"
 
Setup the suspension, then then the steering. You will need to be sure the box/pitman arm/drag link are positioned not to contact the springs or tie rod when compressed.

"Second – OEM vs. RUF is an ongoing debate.  With RUF, is it advantageous to purchase new rears with lift for the front."

 The usual RUF setup is two stock packs of rears making a 6 leaf pack. This plus shackles and front hanger will usually get you a total 4-5" of lift. I've seen some people using rear Old man emu lift springs up front but I have no experience with it. I would suggest considering these but the price is getting a bit out of hand https://www.skysoffroaddesign.com/collections/toyota-front-suspension/products/toy-5ls-001  RUF are soft with a 4cyl, so with the extra weight, keep that in mind.

"Third – I plan to run Chevy 63" rear springs using Sky mounts.  I would suspect the Chevy springs will pick up the rear and I'll need to match the front.  What amount of lift is needed for OEM and or RUF springs considering the added weight of the V6, auto trans, to match Chevy 63” in the rear?"

My experience has been that with a 4cyl and RUF, If anything the 63's will sit a bit lower than the RUF. With the 63's you can adjust ride height a bit with shackle length and how you set your shackle angle to get it to match the front pretty good. If you need more lift or load capacity out of 63's there are 4+ overload packs or you can use an add a leaf with a 3+ overload pack.
Also, For the front there are low profile front hangers available that can be used with shorter shackles to keep the front lower.

When you wrote OEM are you meaning OME (old man emu)?

Hopefully some of this can help you in planning out your project.


 

[ASI H8 [OP]]

Thank you #toyodaaddict for your thoughts.

When you wrote OEM are you meaning OME (old man emu)?

No.  Original Equipment from Manufacture.   Sorry bout that.
Referring to the second and third questions:
Given the intended use, "part time DD that will pull an overlanding trailer from time to time and do some mild wheeling" and "30” tires though the suspension will be designed for 33” tires" I would prefer to have a slightly higher stance in the rear of the truck, level would be fine as well but not a sagging rear.  I thought the 63" Chevy springs would lift the rear higher than the RUF thus I was curious if I should purchase new rear, lifted springs to use in the front of the truck.  However reading that the RUF are soft with stock weight, I feel there would be a safety concern at highway speeds pulling a trailer and the additional weight of the V6.  Now I'm leaning towards a minimal lift, stock length, HD spring for the front.  Thank you for the reminder about the low profile front shackles.  I had forgotten about those.

[toyodaaddict]

Thank you #toyodaaddict for your thoughts.No.  Original Equipment from Manufacture.   Sorry bout that.
Referring to the second and third questions:
Given the intended use, "part time DD that will pull an overlanding trailer from time to time and do some mild wheeling" and "30” tires though the suspension will be designed for 33” tires" I would prefer to have a slightly higher stance in the rear of the truck, level would be fine as well but not a sagging rear.  I thought the 63" Chevy springs would lift the rear higher than the RUF thus I was curious if I should purchase new rear, lifted springs to use in the front of the truck.  However reading that the RUF are soft with stock weight, I feel there would be a safety concern at highway speeds pulling a trailer and the additional weight of the V6.  Now I'm leaning towards a minimal lift, stock length, HD spring for the front.  Thank you for the reminder about the low profile front shackles.  I had forgotten about those.

For your use and tire size, I would look into the springs old man emu offers, like this https://lowrangeoffroad.com/toyota/4runner-pickup-hilux-1979-1995/suspension/leaf-springs/old-man-emu-front-leaf-spring-heavy-load-110-240lbs-2-lift-cs009fa.html. I have seen a couple of the guys here use them with good results.

[Snowtoy]

With you converting a 2wd to 4x4, you wont end up with the same amount of lift from the SAS as one does when converting IFS to an SAS, due to the different design of the frame.  The pic is a '92 2wd a buddy built, with rears upfront and some trimming of the fenders, it cleared 37's and the entry height was the same as my '90 IFS on 33's.

The softer ride from rears up front wont cause handling/safety issues with running a heavier engine, you may just not get the desired amount of lift due to the additional weight.  You can increase the carry capacity of the springs by adding an additional main leaf, which will add about 500lbs carrying capacity to the spring pack without stiffening the ride.

If it were I and doing it on with used leaf springs, I would start with a set of 4x4 rear springs up front with an additional main leaf added to the pack, should be able to use the main from the 2wd pack.  Then check the ride height with the v6 engine/trans, bumper/winch setup, add an additional leaf to the pack, between the the additional main and the leaf, if necessary, then lift the rear to match, either using stock 4x4 rears and building them to match the front, or building a set of Chevy springs.

[ASI H8 [OP]]

How heavy will it get on the frontend?
I don't know that it is necessary at this point but I have been looking for a weight comparison between the original 22R and the 5VZ-FE.  From what I've come across (multiple post, multiple locations) the V6 weighs about 150 lbs more. 
It is a PITA finding weights of the various bumpers.  I know the ARB comes in at 190lbs.  I'm going to call it an even 200for planning.
I need help with a suggested winch.  I don't think I'll start off having a winch but it will be added later on, thus I'd like to plan for it now.

Thank you in advance.
Rob

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