Topic: Heavy-duty turbo clutch kit upgrade part numbers.

[HappyTruck]

My 88 truck needs a throw out bearing. I figured I would put in the heavy duty large diameter clutch kit while it’s apart. Marlin doesn’t sell clutches any more so I was looking for part numbers that made this kit. A turbo flywheel is required and is available from marlin and others so that’s easy. I assume I can use a stock turbo disc/plate kit. This should retain a decent pedal pressure. The only Aisin kit I can find online has rubber pucks in the picture. I would like the metal springs. Does anyone have a part number or numbers for the correct parts. I noticed the 22re and 22re-t slave cylinder numbers are different. Do I need to swap that also?

Thank you in advance for comments and replys.

HappyTruck
SoCal
88 x-tra cab
22RE, 35s, ARBs, crawlbox, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey HappyTruck,

In 20+ years of serious 4-wheeling, mostly rock crawling, it was rare to learn of premature clutch disc failure.

I’ve only seen one and that was at the Glamis sand dunes and the driver didn’t know how to drive a truck in the sand.  You can smoke a clutch in about 30 seconds if you are inexperienced.

So, I believe the “heavy-duty” stuff is not necessary unless you are drag racing.  Is the heavy-duty sfuff going to last longer?... how many miles longer?

The guys I know who did install a Centerforce clutch and pressure plate found out they were not good for rock crawling.  They are way too grabby!  Then they discovered another problem…. the clutch slave cylinders were failing… too much pressure plate pressure.  When you have no clutch disengagement on a trail… it really sucks.  After witnessing when that happened to a fellow wheeler, I bought a new slave cylinder and put the used one in my “on-the-trail parts kit”.

Over the years I’ve tried LUK (recommended by my tranny shop) Beck/Arnley, M-PACT, Aisin, and Toyota.  I don’t know that I can tell the difference in performance or mileage.

I highly recommend buying a heavy duty clutch slave cylinder if you can find one.  If not, buy a new one and put the used one in your trail parts kit.

I’d rather get mauled by a mamma grizzly than have to drop a tranny, so when I do, I replace the rear crank seal, the pilot bearing, throw-bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate, and clutch slave cylinder.  If I didn't know how many miles were on the tranny, I'd replace the input shaft seal. Unless the flywheel has heat cracks, I just take a block and 400 grit emery cloth to it.

Here's a hot tip... If you replace the pilot bearing be sure to test fit in on the tip of input shaft BEFORE installing it in the end of the crankshaft and before attempting to re-install the tranny.

That's just my opinion, it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Hi Gnarls,

I wasn't planning on any type of crazy aftermarket clutch setup.
I believe I can use all stock Toyota parts from a 1986-87 Toyota turbo truck (22RE-T) with a 5-speed transmission.
The turbo parts have a larger diameter pressure plate and clutch disc.
The heavy-duty kit Marlin used to supply came with a flywheel, pressure plate and disc and maybe slave cylinder, I don't remember.
I believe the Marlin kit was an Aisin pressure plate and Seco disk, not sure about the flywheel.
I was hoping someone could supply the part numbers for the disc and pressure plate and I would buy a flywheel from Marlin or LCE.
If nobody has the part numbers, I was just going to maybe buy stock turbo toyota disc and plate (Aisin I believe) and buy a new flywheel.
I was hoping somebody could chime in with what they have done and how it worked out.

Thanks for the reply.

HappyTruck
SoCal
88 x-tra cab
22RE, 35s, ARBs, crawlbox, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

Hi Happy,

Yes... the Turbo is a larger diameter....

If you can't find the part numbers or the parts from Marlin...

From RockAuto I would buy the M-PACT Turbo clutch disc - $55.79
M-PACT pressure plate - $66.79
LUK flywheel - $50.79

The stock Toyota stuff is good stuff, but I'm in frugal mode.

Visually and physically look at and compare the Toyota parts and the M-PACT parts.

Gnarls.

[toyodaaddict]

Hopefully the Marlin clutches aren't gone for good. I have them in all my trucks.

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Gnarls,

You mention a heavy-duty clutch slave cylinder. Do you know who makes one of those?

I was looking at Rockauto.com for a 1987 22RE-T slave cylinders (Aisin CRT-004) which is different than the one I would buy for my 22RE equipped truck (Aisin CRT-001).
Is this turbo version (CRT-004) the heavy-duty version?

There must be a difference between CRT-001 and CRT-004 but I have no idea what it could be (hole pattern, length, stroke etc..)

Thanks again for the replies.


- HappyTruck

SoCal - 88 X-Tra cab, SAS
22RE, 35s, ARBs, Crawl-box, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

You mention a heavy-duty clutch slave cylinder. Do you know who makes one of those?

Hey Happy,

Well... I could not find any specs on the CRT-001 vs CRT-004.

The CRT-004 is spec'd for the 22R Turbo.

If it were me... I'd buy two of the Aisin CRT-004 from RockAuto.

One for installing with new stuff, and one for my on-trail parts kit. 

I've had really good luck with Beck/Arnley parts, save a few bucks and buy Beck/Arnley for $9.69 for your on-trail parts kit.

My on-trail parts kit was a list of spare parts that I collected over the years, and when I needed something it was nice to have.

I always carried a small can of brake fluid in it just in case I had to replace the clutch slave cylinder on the trail.

Because I was so anal about maintenance on my truck, my parts kit more often helped my fellow wheelers than it did me.

Gnarls.

[Slabzilla]

Hey Happy,  The stock Turbo flywheel, clutch and pressure plate will work just fine with the stock slave cylinder.  I've been using one for 5 years w/no issues (Replacement still in my kit).  I used a Centerforce Stage One in my truck for 11 years before that with no problems either.  The extra weight of the Turbo flywheel is going to be felt when on long grades and idling across rocks that you used to bounce over.  My flywheel, disc and pressure plate were all Aisin, as long as your disc has springs instead of pucks you should be good to go.   

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Narl/Slab,

Thanks for the advice.
I will report back here with what I end up purchasing. I want to pull the old stuff out and assess what I exactly have before I buy anything.

I did order a master and slave cylinder. I ordered 2 slave cylinders just so I can see the difference between the 22re and 22re-t version.
I'm guessing it's just the length of the pin, but I will let you know.
I also want to order a braded stainless slave cylinder line. Maybe I will do that in a couple minutes.

Regarding the weight of the 22re and 22re-t fly wheel, I haven't seen anything that says one is much heavier than the other.
I did notice the LUK flywheel has a larger step (.024). I read on here somewhere that Marlin liked a larger step like that and someone else agreed it was better.

I'll be back.

Thanks again.
HappyTruck

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Latest Update:
I went with techna-fit stainless braid clutch line on amazon (Toycl-510). Marlins $35 dollar one is sold out for my year but looks like a better kit, this was my first choice. LCE has one for 4 bucks more but $15 shipping. Amazon was $34.09 with free shipping. With CA tax, $37.50 delivered.

The 22re (CRT-001) vs 22re-t (CRT-004) slave cylinders do have some differences but not much.
CRT-001, $14.60
CRT-004, $17.13
The 001 came painted brown and the 004 came painted black (see pictures).

As you can see the inlet line end of the castings are slightly different, a little longer threaded section for the re-t and the threads are deeper.
The threads go as deep as I can see in the hole on the re-t.
The 22-re version is only threaded 1/2 way down.

Other than that the castings look the same, maybe a little more meat around the thread area on the re version, but the threads don't go that deep. Must just be thick there for some casting purpose.
If you stand both castings on the bore end, the mounting holes on each part line up so the mounting location seems the same.

As I originally thought would be different, the pin length is 2.60" for the re-t and 2.68" for the re.
The ret pin is black oxide and .308 diameter, the re version is zinc plated and .315 diameter.

So what does this mean?

You can pay an extra $2.53 for more thread depth, no zinc plating and .08 less pin.
Is the ret version .08 shorter because of a different throw out fork/bell housing? probably.
Can you use a ret slave cylinder in an re application? if you use the re pin, I would say yes.

Thats all the useless information I have today.
If anyone wants more information, please ask.

HappyTruck
SoCal - 88 X-Tra cab, SAS
22RE, 35s, ARBs, Crawl-box, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Happy!!

I love this tech-poop!! 

I believe the little Japanese Toyota engineers had reasons for their designs.

Some may have been for actual enhancements to reliability or performance.

Some may have been influenced by the "marketing/sales" folks at Toyota.... cost/profit issues?

A difference in the actual length of movement in the slave cylinder may have something do with the clearance of the clutch disc to flywheel at disengagement.

There is a spec difference between a single disc clutch and a dual-disc clutch:  "Single-disc clutches operate best with a gap of 0.150 inch while dual-disc sets require a gap of around 0.200 inch."

Nice post on the measurements!!

Gnarls. 

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Mr. Gnarls,
Are you telling me a turbo equipped 1988 Toyota truck came with a dual clutch disc set up?
Thats news to me but I don't know much anyways.
-HappyTruck

[Gnarly4X]

Mr. Gnarls,
Are you telling me a turbo equipped 1988 Toyota truck came with a dual clutch disc set up?
Thats news to me but I don't know much anyways.
-HappyTruck

Hey Happy,

No... not saying that.  I don't know if there is any difference between the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel specs between an RET or RE/R for any given year??

Although it would not surprise me to find out there are some differences, as you have carefully documented in those slave cylinders.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Happy,

Just looking at numbers and making some assumptions.....

From RockAuto, if you take the SACHS SD615 clutch disc listed for a 1988 RET OE replacement and plug it into Amazon with the 1988 Toyota pickup 22RET (Turbo), it "matches".

If you switch the vehicle to a 1986 22RE, it does not match.  So I assume there is a clutch disc spec difference between the 22RET and a 22RE.

It appears the outer diameter of the 22RET clutch is 9.312"

The outer diameter of a 22RE clutch is 8.875"

The 22RET flywheel has a different step height - 0.023".  The 22RE flywheel has a step height of 0.008".

I assume the slave cylinder spec for the 22RET and 22RE are different due to the disengagement gap spec?

Gnarls.

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Hi Gnarls,

The turbo clutch gives you about 15% more clutch surface area due to the 9.312 diameter and it's all stock Toyota replacement parts.
It looks like the 92-95 non-turbo trucks also came with this larger size clutch.
This extra area is what I wanted, Marlin used to sell a kit that I think was just turbo parts but not anymore.

Slabzilla confirmed earlier in the thread that he has been using the turbo flywheel, turbo clutch and turbo disk with a 22re slave cylinder for a number of years.

On the Rockauto site the LUK fly wheel gives you the different diameters and the .023 step you are talking about. I used their numbers to get the 15% increase in area. I think the Marlin site used to say the same thing.

If you look up the throw out fork at Rockauto for the 22re vs the 22re-t those have different numbers also.
I'm guessing the slave cylinder is different to make up for the difference in throw out forks and maybe this step too?
More step should give more grabbing force.
Someone else on this site said more step will make your clutch pedal disengage higher in the stroke.

I'm going to order a short throw shifter from Marlin this week. I will ask a bunch of clutch questions. Maybe they will give me/us answers to some of these questions.
I will probably pull the trigger on clutch parts shortly after that.

HappyTruck
SoCal - 88 X-Tra cab, SAS
22RE, 35s, ARBs, Crawl-box, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

I will probably pull the trigger on clutch parts shortly after that.

Hey HappyTruck,

Very nicely researched. 

It’s always a pleasure to see a post where extra time and research was done to answer questions too often or very hard to find.

Thank you for sharing those technical details.

My past hobbies have always been on a budget.

I always did some homework to get the results I needed for quality, reliability, and performance without over-extending my budget.

I did some very serious wheeling with my 1985 22R, 5-speed, standard cab (also was my daily driver) with only minor modifications and add-ons.

Part of the thrill of 4-wheeling is building your vehicle with the many options you want and what works for you and your style of wheeling.

As I mentioned, over the 10+ years for wheeling with a 5-speed, I did not experience any issues, either premature failure or unsatisfactory on-trail performance, with my clutch kit choices.

Since dropping a tranny is one of my most dreaded R&Rs, I would spend a little extra to make sure I get the quality and mileage out of a clutch kit, including rear main seal and input shaft seal on the tranny.

I will be eager to read about how your new parts and install goes after driving the vehicle.

Gnarls.

[HappyTruck [OP]]

Hi there Gnarly,

I talk to Marlin people when buying a short throw shifter and they said if I get a 22re-t clutch, disc and fly wheel they will fit in my truck no problem.

I'm still up in the air over which clutch/disc to get.
There seems to be a few brands that a lot of other people put their name on.
Like: AMS=Platinum Drive Line=Valeo="napa"=perfection clutch, (seems like a good choice lots of difference in price depending on where you go and metal springs)
and: LuK = Napa
and: trail gear= Exedy

I haven't heard much bad about the Valeo setup, Luk and Exedy some people give low ratings.
However, I have heard nothing bad about stock Aisin.
At this point I think I might go with Aisin with the rubber instead of springs.
Has anyone heard of the rubber actually wearing out? I have not seen that anywhere.

Anyone with recommendations out there?

I would like to just go with a Marlin setup, but they say they won't be selling clutches anymore.

HappyTruck
SoCal - 88 X-Tra cab, SAS
22RE, 35s, ARBs, Crawl-box, LCE head, Header.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Happy,

LUK discs were recommended back in the day by my tranny shop.. very smart transmission guys!

I would not go with rubber over steel springs.  There's lots of internet discussion on that comparison.

Rubber was used to absorb some shock to eliminate noise, but the trade-off is the rubber will get brittle from heat and break.

It's interesting the RockAuto now only shows M-PACT discs for a 1988 Pickup.

I would go with OEM and not upgrade to a turbo spec.... that's just my experience on my 1985 22R 5-speed.

My guess is whatever you choose (as a daily driver) you'll go betwen 75,000 and 100,000 miles unless you are drag racing or your driving style is too much clutch.

Gnarls.