Topic: Blown headgasket issues??

[Cheesemaker]

I think my truck has blown a headgasket.  I haven't torn into it yet, but as soon as I get my shop organized and in order, I will pull it in and tear into it. 

So, in the meantime, I need to get some ideas.  I know that everybody says that Toyota OEM gaskets are the best.  But I don't live near a dealership, but I can drive to the valley and get one.  Do Dealerships carry a gasket kit on hand, or do I have to order them?  Who online carries OEM Toyota stuff?  Is there another brand that is just as good?  What about the ones Putney sells?

And secondly, I am looking at the worst case scenario.  If I need a head, if there is corrosion/crack, who is the better?  I know Putney is the best, but for $800 with s/h, that is a bit steep.  I know Engbldr has some, but I have heard he uses heads with poor castings.  But his heads are affordable, and he lives 2 hours from me. 

[OTO Phil]

I'd recommend ordering from ENGNBLDR.com

He has all that stuff in stock. Not sure what shipping would be though..

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[Mudder]

I liked Engnbldr's head castings. They weren't poor at all. As for the head gasket you can order an OEM Toyota one through Amazon. Its part number is 11115-35060

[Gnarly4X]

Like oil and filters, there’s always lots of opinions and experiences on the head and gaskets.

I have very little hands on experience with them because my Toyota engines have not failed that often, so I don’t’ get to work on them very often. 

Like many of you here, over the past 18 years I’ve read hundreds of posts and discussions on the subject. 

From the Toyota engine builders I’ve talked to about head gaskets and heads on the 22s, they say the most common problems are not with the gasket, but the installation, the improper machining, or lack of, or guys simply replacing the gasket on a warped, or out of spec head.  There may be anecdotal evidence to the contrary, or evidence of abnormal gasket failure with a particular gasket maker. 

Regarding the heads and who makes the best aftermarket… I would trust 22RE Performance, LC Engineering, and engbldr. 

When 22R head failed in my 85, the head shop here in Phoenix showed me on my head the two main reasons the 22 head fails.  The water port on number 3 chamber tends to crack across to the chamber because of its close location to the edge of the chamber.  The second reason is because of electrolysis that corrodes the surface due the dissimilar metals.  Of course, the 3rd reason is because of over heating the engine. 

Personally, I’d buy the OE head gasket from 22RE Performance, LC Engineering, engbldr, OEM from Toyota dealer, or the one from Felpro.

Similar to the NASCAR engines, the valve train and heads are the parts that need the most attention.  Knowing what I know now, after owning 4 Toyota trucks, I would plan to due a complete R&R head job (probably a replace) on my 22 at around 100K miles (about 5 years for my drive time) whether it needed it or not - on a factory stock Toyota head

If you gave up just one Starbuck’s Latte a week and put that money in a “head-job piggy bank” - at the end of 5 years you’d have enough money saved up to do complete quality head job.

That’s just my worthless opinion. 

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Factory Toyota Head gasket and new (aftermarket) head bolts is the only way to go in My opinion.
Its a big job for most people and no body wants to go do it again. Don't try and save money with this item, the extra $20 to $30 is not worth it.   
Also I am a believer in this product and use it on every head gasket I replace.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-80697?seid=srese2&cm_mmc=pla-msn-_-shopping-_-srese2-_-permatex
Its one of those mechanics tricks. 
Except for warranty repairs. (have to do them 100% by the book)
Lastly I believe that most repeat Head gasket failures are due to improper works manship, Bad head (electrolysis, warped, cracked,or Junk), or Cheap parts. Reusing stretched Head bolts is in there also.
Best of Luck with Your project.

[OTO Phil]

Or you could use this opportunity to swap in a 2.7 liter haha.. my buddy in Estacada just found a 2.4l Tacoma for $300 with a thrashed transmission

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[H8PVMNT]

I'm dealing with this right now myself.

I ordered an OEM Toyota gasket from 22re Performance.  I haven't heard anything bad about Engbldr's gasket but I was too paranoid to use anything but Toyota this time around.  I used whatever cheap head gasket came in my kit from the machine shop and it failed at about 34,000 miles.  After a bit of discussion with a mechanic buddy and listening to what bestgen has to say I think my cause was re-using head bolts and the extreme temp fluctuation from -20F to running temp this winter and the expansion/contraction involved.

I ordered new aftermarket head bolts too .

[Gillesdetrail]

If you use an MLS gasket, the surface finish is important.

From fel-pro "OEM MLS gaskets work well on new, flat, clean castings, since they require a very smooth surface finish, usually 20-30 Ra or less. "

http://www.felpro-only.com/blog/gasket-sealing-surface-finish/

[Mudder]

IMO a MLS gasket is a waste unless he was running higher compression or boost. And even then I'd say stay away from Fel-pro for the 22re and get a cometic MLS.

[Slabzilla]

1-22R, 2-22RE's with Fel-pro head gaskets, each nearing 200k w/no issues.
Start with clean surfaces, chase the threads, new head bolts.  Check for flatness and corrosion if bad or questionable, replace, 22RE Performance or engnbldr. Just my experience, do what you will.     

[OTO Phil]

I'd stay away from MLS HGs.. just get the 22ret HG and machine your head and block if needed.. if you deck it too much, you'll want to get an adjustable cam gear from 22reperformance or LCE..
Having done this myself though, I really wish i would have spent my time and resources into doing the 2.7 swap knowing what I know now... It's a bolt-on to your tranny...

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[knucklebuster]

I bought the 22reperformance headgasket kit, it is pretty complete and comes with their aluminum half moons instead of rubber. The kit came in a toyota marked box, water pump was an asin, I think the bolts are altram. Jim and jerry are very knowledgeable and if they cant get oem they source or have parts manufactured close to spec. or better. I'm  biased though I live about 4 miles away.

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

Well, I think I will go thru Engnbldr.  Since Ted is about 2 hours from me.  As long as the roads are passable.  The coast range and Willamette Valley have been in what we are calling Snowmageddon.   I talked to a buddy tonight, Bleakhorizon on here http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8432, and he is helping me do the headgasket.  So we will see what we run into, and go from there.  He is a mechanic, and has helped me alot locally when I needed it. 

Just need to get my small shop cleaned up and get the truck in there and start tearing into it. 

[knucklebuster]

Check all the little coolant hoses under the intake and the heater pipes that bolt to the motor really well, a few of my pipes where near corroded through. They are really hard to see and get to when the motor is together. Hope it goes smoother than mine did.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Do You plan on removing the Timing cover?

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

I hope not!

It should be a easy headgasket repair, as long as the head is fine. 

I just found out I know of 2 other motors that I think I am going to eventually pick up and learn how to rebuild from ground up. 

[Gnarly4X]

Check all the little coolant hoses under the intake and the heater pipes that bolt to the motor really well, a few of my pipes where near corroded through. They are really hard to see and get to when the motor is together. Hope it goes smoother than mine did.

2X...

Gnarls.

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

When I put the motor in, I had two sets of intakes.  And the original turbo throttle body had all the best nipples that weren't corroded.  My spare one, all the nipples looked to have been drug down the highway, or pitted bad. 

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

Here it is!  http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.msg1135471#msg1135471

It looks to be that the block had some corrosion issues before it was built.  And a cheaper gasket was used. 

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

Is there a Toyota parts site anybody uses? 

[Gnarly4X]

Is there a Toyota parts site anybody uses? 

http://www.22reperformance.com/

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

How easy is it to get thru with 22reperformance?  I am on the fence of taking tomorrow off work, and just making orders. 

[Gnarly4X]

How easy is it to get thru with 22reperformance?  I am on the fence of taking tomorrow off work, and just making orders. 

Hey Cheesemaker,

I have purchased a few things from 22RE Performance since starting my rebuild.  Jerry has always answered the phone and takes my order, totals it, adds the estimated shipping and I give him my credit card number. He usually ships it the same day if I call in the AM, the next day if I call him in the PM.  When he ships it, I get an email with a tracking number.

I really like their site with all the photos, descriptions, and comments.  Their prices are reasonable, and on the high side.  But... I think they only sell top quality items, much is Toyota OEM.  They have taken lots of time to source the best quality for aftermarket Toyota parts.  You get what you pay for.

Jerry has always been good about answering my questions.  He is very knowledgeable and doesn't sugar coat his comments.  So far, as an early Toyota source, I'd give them an "A".

Gnarls.

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

I am gonna try to give Jim a call on my breaks tomorrow, and see what happens!    



I compared prices to what the local parts houses can get, and its pretty much all Fel-Pro.  Or some house brand.  Which for the exhaust, intake, and all the little stuff, the Evergreen seemed to work.  So, I will get Fel-Pro for that.  All the important head gasket, intake gasket, head bolts, and a couple other small stuff will be from Jim.  I have a list wrote down, worth about $171 + s&h.  So, hopefully I can make the call and get done.

[knucklebuster]

I am gonna try to give Jim a call on my breaks tomorrow, and see what happens 

Jerry is on the phone just about every time I go in there, if the line is busy or goes to voice-mail give it a minute or two and call back..

Pretty much what gnarls said is spot on. I've called out of the blue with transmission related questions and had jerry go above and beyond to get me answers.

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

I will try calling on my breaks today.  If not, then I will try to get off work early and sit on the phone if need be. 


I didn't sleep much last night worrying about things.  The corrosion and how bad the one head bold looked.  Toby said he will bring over his tap and clean things up.  I really don't want to tear into this motor for at least 100,000 miles.  Not at 36,000!!  Just kind of pissed that it had this issue so soon.  But I have a lead on at least 2 motors, and later this summer, I will have one built for a spare.   

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

It took a few calls to get thru.  But I got ahold of them on my first break.  And I should see my order in a couple days.  The guy was on the ball, and very knowledgeable about all their parts.  Including what wasn't listed on their website.   

[Gnarly4X]

Here it is!  http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.msg1135471#msg1135471

It looks to be that the block had some corrosion issues before it was built.  And a cheaper gasket was used. 

Cheesemaker,

With a block deck that has that much pitting, did you ask Jerry at 22RE Performance or Tod at engbldr if they would recommend using Permatex Ultra Copper to help seal the head gasket?  Even though Permatex says "Not recommended for use on head gaskets", I have read posts by guys saying it works great..... but, I'd probably defer judgement to Tod or Jerry since I am not an engine builder.

They may say to deck the block and use a thicker head gasket to compensate and maintain quench and compression. 

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I use copper gasket spray.

https://jet.com/product/detail/aa58afd833c045799181d9f10aeda7ea?jcmp=pla:bng:nj_auto:auto_automotive_tools_equipment:na:PLA_276117206_1216059876611912_kwd-4579603368681108:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15

First link I Found, but this is it. Helps to fill some of the small imperfections is the engine block surface.

[Cheesemaker [OP]]

No, I didn't ask.  I might call on Friday, since that is my day off.  Working from 8-6:30pm doesn't give you much time to make important phone calls.  And Toby the helping me, said he has repaired worse that is still driving today.  I will buy a can of the copper sealant, and I will see what Toby thinks.  After I get some $$ together later this year, I am going to buy a spare motor to build up.  And leave ready for such an issue as this.  I don't care if it costs me more than what I paid for this one, but I will know that it was done right, and no corners were cut. 


I just need to get thru these next couple weeks.  Its been really rough around here.  Wife and kids all have been very sick with the crud, and I have been fighting an upper respiratory issue.  I have not called in sick like the wife or kids, plus a bunch of state and federal inspections at work, have been keeping us really busy.  Plus coming home and taking care of the family has left me drained.  I probably don't get to sit down until around 10pm the last week.  I am ready to just run away and find a nice warm place to just sleep.  A nice river bank would be ideal.