Author Topic: Gasket vs. sealant to use for installing a 3rd? (Read 8922 times)

ShawnF · « **on:** Jan 11, 2006, 07:35:38 PM »

Hello,

I just installed a used 4.88 3rd in the front of my '85 pickup a few weeks ago. I was very anal about cleaning the surfaces and around the studs. I used "The Right Stuff" from a caulking gun. After just a couple weeks, a faint but distinct gear oil leak developed right at the bottom (of course). I did not use a regular gasket. I've installed a few other 3rds before and never had a problem, but I used a different sealant for those. This was my first time using The Right Stuff on a 3rd. I've used it on the engine before and everyone raves about how well it works for an engine. Should I have used something else? I may be pulling the 3rd back out to swap in a V6 4.88 3rd anyway, and if I do I want to do it "more better" the second time.

Thanks,

ShawnF

reklund5 · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 11, 2006, 07:45:57 PM »

Go to the dealership and ask for a tube of ORANGE F.I.P.G. The black FIPG will work, but its really hard to separate on a third. The orange FIPG is designed for use in manual trannies where it will be exposed to gear oil. I use it all the time at work ( I work for Toyota) on 3rd members, trannies, t-cases, etc. and it never leaks.

Oh, and be sure to clean all of that "the right stuff" off. It's usually the wrong stuff for Toyotas...

Ryan

ShawnF · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 11, 2006, 07:54:09 PM »

*sigh* I guess I should have known better. My Right Stuff experience came from working on my Land Rover. Bad vehicle. Very bad. Glad I sold it. If a rover isn't leaking, it's out of fluid. However, Right Stuff is supposed to be the best there is for a Rover.

reklund5 · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 11, 2006, 07:59:19 PM »

Yeah... thats to be expected from the British... they drink their beer warm!

No need for a paper gasket, but you can use one if you wish with a thin layer of the Orange FIPG on each side. I usually remove all the studs from the housing and use a scotchbrite pad on my die grinder to clean the surface. Same on the sealing surface of the 3rd member housing. Then reinstall the studs with a little thread sealing locktite, and run a bead of FIPG on the axle housing, centered on the sealing surface and run to the inside near the studs. Stab the third member in, and torque it down. I usually try to let things sit for around an hour before refilling with gear oil if possible, but it'll work immediately if you need it to.

Ryan

Marlin · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 11, 2006, 10:13:35 PM »

I have seen many diffs leak when the gasket is coated with silicon and then installed. The silicon will help split the gasket and it will leak in time.

I used to only use Toyota FIPG but quit due to the high cost involved. At $12.00 per tube it added up quick.
We only use permatex ultra grey and have had excellent success. It meets or exceeds the factory specs and comes apart much easier.

If the job calls for a paper gasket, i use permatex hightack.
Never use silicon on a paper gasket, only gasket cement.

We do not use a paper gasket on the rear diff. We only use ultra grey silicon.
After the diff is removed, tilt it forward so the gear oil drains out from the pinion recess.
Next, we spray the gasket faces with nonclorinated brake clean to remove all oil residue and after a thin coat of ultra grey, button it up.

toynizzy · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 08:48:02 PM »

my frieds who own a tranny shop use black silicone out of a cualking gun,they get it from 1 of thier tranny parts places,works like a champ on everything ive ever seen,on 3rd's we never use the gaskets,just use a small angle grinder with the plastic hairbrush/scotchbrite pad on it to remove all old material and then black silicone.on some tranny pans ive seen the oreo thing,silicone/gasket/silicone but the gaskets r not paper,mostly on old stuff with cork and have bent pans that ppl dont wanna spend the $$ to get fixed right,just remember dont go nuts with whatever u use lol

CTENG in KS · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 02:08:16 PM »

Don't kow how long you wait on the 3rd install. Don't just run the bead of Right Stuff then slam the 3rd in there...allow 10-15 min for the RS to set up and solidify, creates a flexible seal that won't squish out the sides.

All_Set · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 03:54:52 PM »

X2 on the gray stuff. I use Gray GMS. Great Miracle Sealant.

Surface just needs to be oil free in order for it to seal properly. I don't use a gasket either. Just a small coat using my finger over the surface.

IronClad · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 09:19:43 PM »

right stuff is where its at. just let it tack up for a min or 2 and then put in yer stuff. buddy o mine right stuffed a tcase together and had to pull it apart cuz he messed up with a shiftrail or somthing.. he couldnt get it back apart ! right stuff is the best if you know how to use it

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 10:36:40 PM »

Quote from: reklund5 on Jan 11, 2006, 07:59:19 PM

Yeah... thats to be expected from the British... they drink their beer warm!

No need for a paper gasket, but you can use one if you wish with a thin layer of the Orange FIPG on each side. I usually remove all the studs from the housing and use a scotchbrite pad on my die grinder to clean the surface. Same on the sealing surface of the 3rd member housing. Then reinstall the studs with a little thread sealing locktite, and run a bead of FIPG on the axle housing, centered on the sealing surface and run to the inside near the studs. Stab the third member in, and torque it down. I usually try to let things sit for around an hour before refilling with gear oil if possible, but it'll work immediately if you need it to.

Ryan

I've been doing it all wrong!! but it works for me

orange permatex, around the edeges, scrape all the old crap off with a paint scraper or your fingernail. Squeeze out the new stuff, and slap the diff in. By the time you tighten down all the nuts, its all good. Fill it up with oil, and you're set. I have yet to have a diff. leak on me

Try not to get the permatex on the threads of the studs

I did that, and now the studs come out instead of the nuts coming off

Thomas P · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 05:41:18 PM »

I can vouch for RIGHT STUFF, I have put in 4 third members using right stuff and they are sealed to this day. I cleaned both surfaces with a scraper then I put a 1/8" bead around the whole 3rd then spread it around evenly and around the stud holes. Then by the time I put the 3rd in and put all the washers and nuts in place and ready to tighten it was getting tacky. Then I tightened in a star pattern. And no leaks.

trekker · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 11:09:50 PM »

i have had good luck with right stuff also i have used it on several third member's. $Beer Chug\'n$

toymech · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 05:12:31 PM »

Used the grey stuff from permatex on my new third. Marlin recomended it and as always its the best stuff for installing a new third. Just keep it neat and clean=no leaks

Skinny_Pedal · « **Reply #13 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 07:08:56 PM »

grey rtv all the way. its dominates on all levels

jimbo74 · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 05, 2006, 12:31:27 AM »

wow, the search function actually worked!!!!!!

aways, im about to swap in newer gears.... whats the best on ehre? i have a couple votes for toyota orange, orange, grey, ultra grey, and the right stuff, is the right stuff regular or the for imports one? not sure what im going to use yet......

SLOYOTA808 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 05, 2006, 01:22:22 AM »

Although I am not proud to have broken so many 3rds, I have had unsurpassed success with the Right Stuff. I have learned that a small amount is best, using a finger to evenly spread the stuff around the 3rd.

jimbo74 · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 05, 2006, 01:25:51 AM »

Quote from: SLOYOTA808 on Jun 05, 2006, 01:22:22 AM

Although I am not proud to have broken so many 3rds, I have had unsurpassed success with the Right Stuff. I have learned that a small amount is best, using a finger to evenly spread the stuff around the 3rd.

ironclad also said the right stuff, when i looked it up, i found the right stuff by permatex and also the right stuff for imports, any difference or preference to that?

jimbo74 · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 05, 2006, 05:22:32 PM »

bump, i need this info now, im on my way to the store before they close

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 05, 2006, 05:39:47 PM »

Quote from: Captain4x2 on Jun 05, 2006, 05:22:32 PM

bump, i need this info now, im on my way to the store before they close

I think Marlin answered your question quite well.

Quote from: Marlin on Jan 11, 2006, 10:13:35 PM

I have seen many diffs leak when the gasket is coated with silicon and then installed. The silicon will help split the gasket and it will leak in time.

I used to only use Toyota FIPG but quit due to the high cost involved. At $12.00 per tube it added up quick.
We only use permatex ultra grey and have had excellent success. It meets or exceeds the factory specs and comes apart much easier.

If the job calls for a paper gasket, i use permatex hightack.
Never use silicon on a paper gasket, only gasket cement.

We do not use a paper gasket on the rear diff. We only use ultra grey silicon.
After the diff is removed, tilt it forward so the gear oil drains out from the pinion recess.
Next, we spray the gasket faces with nonclorinated brake clean to remove all oil residue and after a thin coat of ultra grey, button it up.

Hyena · « **Reply #19 on:** Jun 14, 2006, 07:08:12 PM »

I think i am going to try and find the right stuff here soon. I have had both of my axles apart 2 times to try and fix my leaks and they still leak. I used ultra grey both times. i need something a lot stronger to help with my warped flanges.

IronClad · « **Reply #20 on:** Jun 15, 2006, 01:15:20 AM »

right stuff is the way to go.. if you clean the surface well.. wait a little bit for it to tack up ( hell.. dont even really need to do that i never really do) and slam it together nice and tight it will be hard to get that stuff seperated.. at the shop we had an entire dual case setup held together by right stuff. it took forever to get it apart.

its hands down the best.. next is ultra black with graphite

lol my pinion seal on my front axle was hosed and didnt have a new one and was after hours so i slammed some electrical tape on the yoke and rightstuffed what was left of the old seal in there plus gooped a ton on the yoke area.. no leaks ! and it sees high speed ( read 55+ in 4wd) with a unbalanced front shaft that looks like a noodle when it moves.

h0nke · « **Reply #21 on:** Jun 20, 2006, 04:07:59 PM »

always use silicone rtv, gaskets will get hot and shrink then eventually leak.

ShawnF [OP]

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