Topic: Direct Plug 140 Amp Denso Alternator on the cheap

[82rustbeast]

A couple of days ago, I was doing a set of injectors and cups on a 12.5L John Deere 9420T. As I was setting in the injectors, I started looking at the alternator, and noticed it was a Nippondenso unit.

Upon closer inspection of the 3 prong plug on the back I noticed it was very similar, if not the same as my alternator on my 22re. It also had the battery terminal post on top.

The main difference is the location of the top mounting hole on the case is at the 12 o'clock position where as my 22re alt is at or around the 11 or 1 o'clock position. And of course also the serpentine pulley. But that's easily swappable.

Upon further research the output of this unit is 140 amps. Just like the Delco CS144 I just pulled from a Cadillac a few months ago for future use. I knew the cost from Deere would be $300-$600 for one of these alternators. But in my constant quest to be the cheapest person in the world, I interchanged the Deere P/N to the Nippondenso P/N, which is 100211-6420. Plug that number into google, and get a list of cheaper options. Such as;

http://m.ebay.com/itm/like/271021212922

I haven't measured my 22re alt yet, but I believe this may be a direct bolt in as opposed to the CS144 which needs the bracket modified. The wide base mount of both units look very similar.

Maybe this has already been brought up before, but it was new and interesting info to me, so I thought I'd pass it on.

Hers a few pics with some measurements. The measurement from the center of one mount bolt to the other is pictured and looks to be about 6.5 inches. I think I'm going to borrow one from work and compare it this week to confirm these thoughts.

[82rustbeast [OP]]

[4xChinook4]

Cool, interesting stuff bro. I definitely may use this info for my chinook dual battery.

[4xChinook4]

Thanks for posting your find

[YOguyDa]

The Jaguar XJ alternator is a bolt in "basically"...120amps:

http://www.toyotaminis.com/forum/build-up-project-threads-25/mikeros-90-yota-19608/

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2

[Rocksurfer]

Saved 

[Cheesemaker]

Saved 

Same here!

[sandfantom]

This is relevant to my interests
Thanks OP

[emsvitil]

I seem to recall that the electrical plug changed in 87 or 88..............


Are the plugs available to retrofit older models    (I have an 86)

[helipilot77]

I would imagine increasing the size of the white charge wire between the engine bay fuse box and the alternator would be needed as well as changing the capacity of the mega fuse? Otherwise the increased charging capacity may not net a benefit. 

[Ritchie]

Any idea of the amps it puts out at idle?

Thanks.

[Speed]

Couldn't say specifically,but being for a tractor,which never runs higher than maybe 2500 rpm,it probably starts rockin' at 1,000 or maybe even lower.

[82rustbeast [OP]]

That really depends on what size pulley you put on it. It's got a serp pulley on it and will need the v belt pulley swap.

I recall while doing the initial research on this that there was a graph showing the output amps at an RPM range. So do the math to find what size pulley will match best, which I don't remember off the top of my head.

I will probably order one of these guys tomorrow and attempt the swap. I should be able to get good fitament pics too, because the front clip of my truck will be off for some frame work

[82rustbeast [OP]]

I took the plunge and ended up ordering an alt from eBay for the final price of $114.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/271021212922

 I live around the Chico area, and the alt shipped from Newcastle. It only took a day, which to me was awesome. I came home tonight to it sitting on my doorstep. Later I pulled the old unit from my 4Runner and compared them.

The new one is obviously bigger but not by much. The pulleys on the old and new units are not much different in OD size. So I decided to just temporarily swap my v pulley in the place of the serpentine pulley.

That is where I ran into my first problem. The bore of the v pulley is roughly 14.9 mm and the serp pulley is roughly 16.9mm. I may just drill the v pulley out, but I think there is a very slight taper in both. I have not confirmed this yet.

I moved on to see how well the new alt fit into the puny underpowered 60A alternators spot. Problem #2 showed up. There is a slightly raised area in the casting, just behind the front ear on the base mount. This was solved by removing the mount bracket, and quickly taking it down with a good ol file.

With that done the alternator was dropped into its soon to be permanent home. With the base bolt ran through, I swung it over to check its adjustment travel. It just barely made it to the slotted bracket before hitting the coolant hose coming from the timing cover, and the alt case on the lower bracket.

This explains why the top threaded tab on the original alternator is at about the 11 o clock position. It tilts the case away from the base mount. This weekend I'll hit up the junk yard to try and find an alternate bolt in tension bracket. If that doesn't work, I'll just build my own, or extend an extra I have somewhere.

[emsvitil]

I've never seen a taper on the pulley shafts.


I think GM alternators are 17mm.

[82rustbeast [OP]]

You might be right emsvitil. I do happen to have an extra GM v pulley as well for my previously intended CS144 swap. I'll check tomorrow.

I'll also post the pics tomorrow. Need to resize them. They're way too bog right now.

[Plainview]

Great info!

The plug configuration should not be an issue to anyone with any kind of skills as long as the number of wires are the same.  Buy a plug for the alternator you have, cut the plug off the harness in the vehicle, and splice the new plug into it.  Easy.

[82rustbeast [OP]]

If you're putting it on a 3 wire plug from a Toyota, you should be able to back the pins out of the connector by bending the terminal lock tab, and just clip them into the new one.

Im still working on getting the pics up later. Emsvitil was correct, the gm pulleys are 17mm. I slid an extra I have on this morning on my way out the door for work.

I will also be replacing the cable going to the alternator to probably 4 gauge and will put a large fuse in there as well. Hopefully should be usable again by the end of the weekend.

[Speed]

I made an alternator adjuster from a turn-buckle for my truck, Bent one end about 45 degrees and bolted it to the block with one of the holes facing the left side,and bolted the other end to the alternator. It works great,is easy to adjust had has LOTS of adjustment. I have 3 pics of it,but even at 20X15 pixels,even just one is too big to post,so you'll have to figure it out.
  Speed

[82rustbeast [OP]]

 Too late  . I already modified an extra tensioner bracket I had laying around. I cut it and rewelded it further out. With my old stretched belt on it, it's almost to the end of the adjustement. The same was true with the original setup, so it may be remedied with a new belt. I ended up drilling out my original pulley, and used a thin washer to space it out far enough so that it wouldnt contact the alternator case.

It's all coming together fairly smoothly, and I'm waiting for the paint to dry on the new tensioner bracket as I type this.











This was the initial weld. Notice i had to cut down on the slotted bracket to bring it up further.


Here's the test fit. I know the adjustment is at the end, but I ran my original the same way too with no squeals

[Plainview]

Very cool!

Try a new belt, if it's still close to the end of the adjustment, just get a slightly shorter belt.

Used to be for old school GM alternators from the '60s and '70s you could buy kits with higher amperage windings to put in them (and might still be, I haven't looked for this in a long time) .  I wonder if there are any higher output alternators out there that you could swap the guts into a stock case?

[Speed]

My original adjuster had already been through the "Break,weld,break,weld" cycle. What made me replace it is the very limited adjustment range. Sometimes you just don't have access to exactly the right belt.
   GM's 10si alternator is VERY interchangeable internally-you can mix and match parts and build what you want. I found a 100 amp one-wire 10si on ebay for about $68.00,so I'm going to be trying one on my '54 GMC 2 Ton,and if it holds up well,I'll eventually get everything converted to 'em.
   You can still buy high amp alternators off the shelf at parts stores,but the "computer readers" at the local parts store can't actually find 'em for you. The software doesn't give 'em the amperage-it only lists 'em by application,multiple choice. You need an "old school" parts man who can look it up in the books. (NAPA is good about this.)
   Anyplace that sells and rebuilds alternators and electric motors will be able to hook you up with almost any pulley you want. I've come to a point that I like the 10si MAINLY because they're so easy to find and not expensive.

[82rustbeast [OP]]

So a little update on this. After all of the work and 4 gauge cable add and crap wires delete, I've determined I like this alternator. If I were to do it over again, I'd probably just go with the Jaguar 120A alt that YOguyDA posted about.

Was all this extra work really worth 20 extra Amps over a bolt on? I don't know. I've taken it on two light trips to the High Lakes. Plus I don't have my winch mounted yet, so I'm not putting any heavy load on it. But it keeps my Mexican Optima Red Top alive, so that makes me happy. I did end up getting a one size shorter belt from NAPA, and cant remember the number off the top of my head. It was a tight slip on the required turning the crank by hand to roll it on, but I still have a bit of adjustment left now compared to being on the end of the adjuster bracket with the original size belt.

While finishing this project 2 months ago, I acquired a 97 4Runner 3.4L to swap in here in a couple weeks. I held my old 60A Alt up to the 3.4 and found that my 140A Alt should slip right in with little to no modification. I'll just throw the original serpentine pulley back on the Alt and roll with it.

If anyone is intersted in how that will go, I'll post the details in the build thread I'll be doing here soon for my full revamp of the truck.
Going 3.4, R151 Dual cases, 4.7s rear, chromo outputs front and rear, and 60/14 combo swap. You know, the standard.