Topic: dual case problem

[dweinberg01]

Okay here's the circs... Marlin dual cases 4.70 in the rear. After startup the transmission spins, I put the first case in gear and it spins, put the second case in gear, the gears in both cases stop moving and the truck doesn't move. Give it gas and still nothing. When I try to shift out of gear I can feel the load on the shifter. I just don't know what the heck is going on. Any help is appreciated

[Wenhar]

Okay here's the circs... Marlin dual cases 4.70 in the rear. After startup the transmission spins, I put the first case in gear and it spins, put the second case in gear, the gears in both cases stop moving and the truck doesn't move. Give it gas and still nothing. When I try to shift out of gear I can feel the load on the shifter. I just don't know what the heck is going on. Any help is appreciated

Well it sure sounds like the 2nd T/C is locked up , Check fluid condition for metal, if it ground itself up to lock up solid should be pretty easy to tell ,,,

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

When I had it out of the truck last weekend, I was able to spin everything by hand, from the rear driveshaft flange and also from the transfer case input shaft. Everything spins freely even when I put it in gear out of the truck.

[Wenhar]

When I had it out of the truck last weekend, I was able to spin everything by hand, from the rear driveshaft flange and also from the transfer case input shaft. Everything spins freely even when I put it in gear out of the truck.

Weird but locks up solid in the Rig ?  Man , only thing I can think off is that will the greater torque applied to the componet something moves and locks it up on you,

Can you get it to move any direction just a bit before it locks up ?

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

No. It doesn't move forward or back. I'm gonna Jack the back wheels off the ground see if that does anything. I doubt that will help bit I'm gonna try.  Thanks. Ill try and update as it goes. Would this have anything to do with the shift detent ball and spring? I don't believe that I tore it down that far, unless the ball and spring can fall out of the shifter holes on top

[Wenhar]

No. It doesn't move forward or back. I'm gonna Jack the back wheels off the ground see if that does anything. I doubt that will help bit I'm gonna try.  Thanks. Ill try and update as it goes. Would this have anything to do with the shift detent ball and spring? I don't believe that I tore it down that far, unless the ball and spring can fall out of the shifter holes on top

The only thing that is coming to mind, note I only have a rudimentary understanding of what this set up is,
a Range portion of a A T/C adapted to another complete T/c

But what may be happening is some how the secondary Transfercase, (scuse my nomenclature ) sitting behind the primary range reducer is some how getting locked in low range and high range @ the same time
That would lock her up solid,,, your on the right tack inspecting cross detents and such,

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

 I checked and the detent ball and springs are in place. Now for a possibly stupid question...I have the TG speedo cable extension and it is plugged into the rear case, could that be interfering with the gears spinning and causing the lockup?

[Wenhar]

I checked and the detent ball and springs are in place. Now for a possibly stupid question...I have the TG speedo cable extension and it is plugged into the rear case, could that be interfering with the gears spinning and causing the lockup?

I have the TG speedo cable extension

Does TG stand for Trail gear ?

Is so Yep You bet that is most definitely the problem, From what I have gathered this Trail gear operation nothing they do is right,. so
Sure dude if you got a Trail gear part anywhere near your locked up double dog dare ya T/c then yep that is the problem for sure,,,

No of course just kidding Trail gear can't be that bad, Doubt that a speedo extension will lock it up,

[Rockin4Runner]

I'm thinking that the shifter key on the shift rod were not grounded enough for the 4.7 gears.

[4RunnerChevy]

I'm thinking that the shifter key on the shift rod were not grounded enough for the 4.7 gears.

Good call !

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Okay, after fiddling with it some more today, my opinion and my question have changed.  I don't believe that the cases are locking up. I think that the transmission is not able to build up enough hydraulic pressure to spin everything. Here is why I believe that. I had the shifters out and turned the truck on. With the cases in neutral, they spun quickly for about 3 seconds then stopped spinning. I went through each gear on the transmission and the saame thing would happen, the t-case gears would spin briefly and then stop. I was only able to go through the transmission gears one time before the transfer case gears would not spin at all.

Now for the questions: if I installed my external trans cooler and ran the hoses backwards, would it cause the above to happen.  If that is not the case, what could cause this situation to happen.  The transmission fluid is full. I verified that yesterday.

A small fyi...the transmission pan is dented in the middle and raised up about 3/4- 1 inch. I don't know if this would affect the fluid pickup but thought I would mention it anyway.

[Rockin4Runner]

I don't think tranny pressure is your problem (unless your tranny is shot). If you have both Tcases in low the amount of torque at the wheels will over power the brakes with ease. And you really can't hook up a tranny cooler wrong, it doesn't mater which way it fluid flows threw the thing unless the hoses are both hooked up to the intake or the out but I don't think you can really do that.

Does your rig roll if you have the rear tcase in neutral? If so what about when you have the tcases in high gear and the tranny in neutral?

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

I don't think tranny pressure is your problem (unless your tranny is shot). If you have both Tcases in low the amount of torque at the wheels will over power the brakes with ease. And you really can't hook up a tranny cooler wrong, it doesn't mater which way it fluid flows threw the thing unless the hoses are both hooked up to the intake or the out but I don't think you can really do that.

Does your rig roll if you have the rear tcase in neutral? If so what about when you have the tcases in high gear and the tranny in neutral?

I can push it forwards or backwards with the rear case in neutral and the transmission in park. Its like the whole thing is stuck in neutral. When I put the cases in gear, it won't roll. I just find it weird that it only spins for a couple seconds in each gear before it slows to a stop. That I would think would be transmission related because both cases are spinning for a couple seconds then stop.  I think if it was case related they wouldn't spin at all and the trans would do something.

[Wenhar]

I can push it forwards or backwards with the rear case in neutral and the transmission in park. Its like the whole thing is stuck in neutral. When I put the cases in gear, it won't roll. I just find it weird that it only spins for a couple seconds in each gear before it slows to a stop. That I would think would be transmission related because both cases are spinning for a couple seconds then stop.  I think if it was case related they wouldn't spin at all and the trans would do something.

I can push it forwards or backwards with the rear case in neutral and the transmission in park. Its like the whole thing is stuck in neutral. When I put the cases in gear, it won't roll. I just find it weird that it only spins for a couple seconds in each gear before it slows to a stop. That I would think would be transmission related because both cases are spinning for a couple seconds then stop.  I think if it was case related they wouldn't spin at all and the trans would do something.

When I put the cases in gear, it won't roll.

And the Tranny Auto hits a brick wall, stalls out and dont move your rig,, right ?

Its in the Transfercase ,

When I put the cases in gear, it won't roll

If the tranny was shot it still would roll,

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

But why would the gears in the cases stop spinning when they are in neutral and I shift through the transmission gears. Wouldn't the transfer case gears still spin when I put the transmission in drive and they were in neutral? I have to put the t-cases in gear to move it right, but if they already aren't moving, then putting them in gear won't do anything? BTW thanks for everyone's information. This is killing me cuz I wanna go play.

[Wenhar]

But why would the gears in the cases stop spinning when they are in neutral and I shift through the transmission gears. Wouldn't the transfer case gears still spin when I put the transmission in drive and they were in neutral? I have to put the t-cases in gear to move it right, but if they already aren't moving, then putting them in gear won't do anything? BTW thanks for everyone's information. This is killing me cuz I wanna go play.

This is hurting my head, If you have your transfercase in N and the Transmission in gear, the transmission is turning the input gear of the primary range section of the double dog T/C
Wont matter what the secondary T/C is in,

Regardless, When the vehicle is locked up wont move, wont roll, when you put the Transmission in Drive and hit the gas does it stall out ?

or does it just rev up ?

[4RunnerChevy]

Pull the cases, further investigate, I don't think your gonna be able to discuss the problem out of it.  Either its the tcase, or the tranny, either way the tcase will need to be removed.  I would also look at that tranny pan, a 1" dent could be a problem.   

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

This is hurting my head, If you have your transfercase in N and the Transmission in gear, the transmission is turning the input gear of the primary range section of the double dog T/C
Wont matter what the secondary T/C is in,

Regardless, When the vehicle is locked up wont move, wont roll, when you put the Transmission in Drive and hit the gas does it stall out ?

or does it just rev up ?

It just revs up. Sorry guys. I'm just trying to figur this out. Thanks for all your help. I'm gonna ohm out the wires I hooked up during the swap and see what I get this weekend. Thanks again.

[Wenhar]

It just revs up. Sorry guys. I'm just trying to figur this out. Thanks for all your help. I'm gonna ohm out the wires I hooked up during the swap and see what I get this weekend. Thanks again.

If it just revs up in gear, and the thing dont roll when T/C are in gear the problem is 2 fold

Toasted Tranny, possible converter splines or pump issue if the fluid is not burnt

And the T/C is loused,

Make sure it is not in park when testing the T/C for movement,,  Obvious thing but sometimes they get overlooked,
"I'm gonna ohm out the wires I hooked up during the swap and see what I get this weekend. Thanks again."

You are not describing a electrical problem by any stretch of the imagination, even with all electronics unplugged you still would be able to roll you rig,
and it would move forward and backward,

[Wenhar]

Pull the cases, further investigate, I don't think your gonna be able to discuss the problem out of it.  Either its the tcase, or the tranny, either way the tcase will need to be removed.  I would also look at that tranny pan, a 1" dent could be a problem.   

X2 on the dented up tranny pan, if he is lucky the distorted Tranny pan is not allowing it to P/U enough fluid to engage,,

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Back to the top with more info/questions:

I drained and pulled my pan and removed my transmission filter.  The transmission filter that I pulled has a place for two (2) gaskets.  I looked up the transmission filter that is supposed to go with my transmission. It looks exactly the same, except it has a different bolt pattern and shows a place for three(3) gaskets. This is the one that is supposed to go on the transmission: http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=940%2D00094920H

Would that extra hole that needs the gasket cause the transmission to not pick up and push fluid throughout the transmission?

[4-lo]

ok thats and auto tranny rite.

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Yeah. It is an auto transmission, A340f I think.  I did some checking with the truck running in every gear and I wasn't getting fluid through the lines and it seems like I am not getting hydraulic pressure to the gears. I am hoping that the filter is the problem, otherwise, my next guess is the pump is bad.

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

I checked the shift linkage, and that is correct, and also cleaned out the filter. I am still not getting any fluid pressure through the trans cooler lines. I am now thinking that the trans pump may have gone bad. How difficult is it for the home mechanic to change out the pump. I know I also need a new o-ring for the pump. Is there a gear behind the pump that may have broken? Thanks 
           

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Problem located!!!! Pulled the pump apart and this is what I found.

Broken pump gear. Now to find a new one. Any ideas.