Topic: How firmly do you hold your principles?

[BLACKDOG]

Just a thought for discussion, how far do you carry your priniciples?

Essentially, do you choose not to shop somewhere, go somewhere, etc. due to that store's, person's, chain's political/economical, etc. views? 

Personal example:

I will not ever watch a Michael Moore movie.  Never have, never will. 
Same with any of Jane Fonda's stuff.
I buy as much as possible from mom and pop stores.  I'm not against paying a few bucks more for something when it'll support a locally owned business.
I wasn't a huge fan of starbucks, but with their recent "support" of gun ownership, I am rethinking that.

If someone chooses to be liberal, so be it.  But to go against America?  screw you.


These are some surface principles, but I'm just curious to what everyone else thinks?


(Yes, I did leave Trail Gear out.  Those of you that know me know how I stand on that.)

[Trunkz]

as far as starbucks goes... id drink thier but thier coffee taste like burnt poo
im very serious about my principles... u cross the line you no longer exsist to me

[BAMF]

I will go out of my way and pay extra for items made in the USA.

[brainlessfool]

what are principles? 

[Snowtoy]

^^Same here.  I will even pay more for less, as I did w/my flat screen TV.  Sure I could have gotten a 52" or bigger  for what I paid for my 46" Sony.

I too will also try to support the local shop owners, but not when they are charging more for an item then is reasonable for the convenience of buying it locally.

Unfortunately I find you have to watch the MM, Fonda, Gore, etc., BS, you need to know as much as you can about your enemy.

I also live by the principle of "Never forgive, Never forget", doing so only allows you to get screwed over by the same person more than once.

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

Snowtoy, I agree with you to a point.

I refuse to watch Michael Moore's movies simply due to the fact that he's a fat b*std who wants nothing more than to gain $$ from the exploitation and twisting of America's values and principles. 
As far as the "news" goes, I'll watch it, listen, and most importantly READ, from several different sources.  I believe in standing behind my principles, and supporting them with fact, not heresay or rumor. 

So to extend my statement, if you're knocking on America for pure financial benefit, screw you.  I won't even give you the time of day.

[abnormaltoy]

Unfortunately I find you have to watch the MM, Fonda, Gore, etc., BS, you need to know as much as you can about your enemy.

One needn't nibble a dog turd to confirm it is unsavory.






I, as anyone who knows me will attest, am principled almost to a fault. I believe without honor, integrity and reliability a man is nothing.

I do not see movies...at least very few made in the last 40 years or so. I just will not give my hard earned shekels to some dysfunctional liberal who spits on everything this nation stands for and was founded upon. I was praying Peter Jackson wouldn't step up and say something stupid (politically) before the final LOTR film was released. 

I've been a picker for 40 years...I used to enjoy Santana. When he used his position in the public eye to make statements I disagree with and found objectionable...I stopped even playing his tunes. I defend his right to his opinion...I just won't financially support him afterward.

Doing the right thing when you know you are being watched is easy...doing the right thing when only you know you are doing so is what counts.

[Snowtoy]

One needn't nibble a dog turd to confirm it is unsavory.

True, but when you are involved in the world of public policy/politics, you have to keep tasting it, so you can declare it for sure to be a turd, otherwise you could claim it to be a turd and have it actually be an unwrapped chocolate bar.  Unfortunately I have yet to find the unwrapped candy bar.

[abnormaltoy]

Don't get a lot of Mounds,huh?


I get my insight into the leftist mind set via tv news, radio, 'net, books...hell, I live in Tucson (Berkeley of the Desert). They just don't get any money from me!

[kneedownnate]

I will not ever watch a Michael Moore movie.  Never have, never will. 

I wasn't a huge fan of starbucks, but with their recent "support" of gun ownership, I am rethinking that.

If someone chooses to be liberal, so be it.  But to go against America?  screw you.

I try very hard to stick to my principles, probably only breaking away out of ignorance.  I hate WalMart with a passion, partially due to the fact that they built themselves on the pride of selling mostly american made products until not long ago, then changed to almost all chinese crap.  It is tough to beat some deals there, or the convenience of being able to stroll in in the wee morning hours to get fishing gear for an early morning trip, but they carry a couple clothing items I need for work and haven't found anywhere else.

Never seen a Moore film that I know of and won't until he dies of a long drawn out heart attack 

Not a coffee drinker and haven't been to starbucks in years, but it is intruiging that such a business would stand behind gun ownership and may be worth looking into.

And I agree on liberalism as well.  If you want to constantly stand up and go against the country in which you live, perhaps you need to seek refuge elsewhere   

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

I try very hard to stick to my principles, probably only breaking away out of ignorance.  I hate WalMart with a passion, partially due to the fact that they built themselves on the pride of selling mostly american made products until not long ago, then changed to almost all chinese crap.  It is tough to beat some deals there, or the convenience of being able to stroll in in the wee morning hours to get fishing gear for an early morning trip, but they carry a couple clothing items I need for work and haven't found anywhere else.

Never seen a Moore film that I know of and won't until he dies of a long drawn out heart attack 

Not a coffee drinker and haven't been to starbucks in years, but it is intruiging that such a business would stand behind gun ownership and may be worth looking into.

And I agree on liberalism as well.  If you want to constantly stand up and go against the country in which you live, perhaps you need to seek refuge elsewhere   

I think Larry the Cable Guy said it best when he said "Yeah, I went out and bought a few michael moore dvds the other day, I needed something to level out my coffee table " 

Anyway, I typically only buy from Walmart what I know is made here (ammo mostly).  I agree Nate, I really don't like going there, and even with ammo, I try to buy it elsewhere. Thankfully, we've got Sportsmans Warehouse   They've got pretty much all I need as far as clothes, ammo, camping equipment, etc.  As well as Cabelas of course   which is only 20 min. away. 



I was curious as to what people thought, because it seems like in today's day and age, most people typically seem to make purchases based on convenience and price, or in the case of entertainment, they watch, listen, etc. to what makes them feel good, bad, indifferent, whatever.  They don't ever look at the bigger picture.  I figured I'd find many people on here who would be, simply based on the type of people we are, doing the things that we do. 

[Rocksurfer]

What I want to know is when do I get my free health care, housing, car, get my assigned job, food, and when the hell are they gonna come and get all these guns I've got laying around here? Dang liberals can't get anything right.......... not!!!

Not only do I have principles, I'm pigheaded too, so don't even try to sway me.

[Plekto]

Starbucks uses their cheapest blend(blended with what I don't honestly know...) for their mixed drinks and normal coffee.  It's really junk coffee.  But their original business was selling coffee like a real coffee shop, and the bulk coffee that they do sell, while expensive, is very very good.

So only buy bulk coffee from them and grind it at home.  The entire rest of the store... yeah, avoid like the plague.  Not because it sucks(it does) but also because their pricing  is crazy.

Also, Michael Moore's very first couple of films are actually funny and worth watching.  After that, yeah, it got to be unpleasant to watch.

[brainlessfool]

when the hell are they gonna come and get all these guns I've got laying around here? Dang liberals can't get anything right.......... not!!!

would not surprise me if they tried to fix that one soon. 

[germ]

Hey BD, your sig line says it all. It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

I base my decisions on wheter or not I'll be able to look in the mirror and respect who I see staring back at me. Honesty, integrity, and doing the RIGHT thing even if it's not the easiest is the only way to roll.

As several of you have said, I would rather go out of my way, spend a bit more, and possibly get a bit less to support an honest local small buisness. I will avoid many of the big box type stores, just on principal, but especially if they have come out in statement or financial support of causes that go against my morals or undermine our countries ideals. That is one of the many reasons I will only buy my specialty parts from Marlin. He displays the simple purity of doing buisness right and honoring his customer base. I respect that.

I don't need to go see a Michael Moore film, 'cause just reading about our governements fumbling is enough to get me aggravated, and I don't need any more of that in my life. I agree with the adage of keep your friends close and your enemies closer, but I just don't need his level of stupidity and stirring in my life. There are several others who are just as annoying, but I won't waste everyone's time making a laundry list. Let's just say I don't go to movies anymore, cause very few of these "actors" have enough insight into the issues they support to be standing up and opening their mouths. Just 'cause they have name recognition, does not make them an expert, it just gives them a bully pulpit. Besides, most of them don't display the morals and principals in their personal lives to back up the empty words they spew trying to get everyone else to do what they want.

Ok, I'm done [/rant: off]

Erik

[fj-rankenstein]

personally, i think its important to learn as much as possible, do whats important to get yourself through the day and take advantage of all oportunities when they present themselves..  i was brought up from a kid to take chances and to not be affraid of something different and to always explore.. this has translated to my 30s now where i feel i have very few regrets in my life and am more then happy to where things are going..
 the way i see it is that its important to do things based on oportunity and not pre-judgement..  if my mind was made up that i wouldnt enjoy something based on what everyone elses opinions were i am affraid that a persons views would become quite narrow and closed minded. i think its important to expose yourself to things that perhaps you may not aprove of such as watching movies that are perhaps biased or shop at places that sell china made crap so only then you will know that perhaps its not your thing or what you are supporting may not be the best choices..  it more or less comes down to the cliche' saying that knowledge equals power..  personally i want to know first hand that my decisions and what my decisions are based on are from my sole experiences and not what other people are telling me..  i want to think that i only shop locally and dont mind even if i have to pay a little more but i guarantee that everyone here and everywhere has sacrificed their own beliefs at some point because the grasss is greener on the other side or perhaps there is a little better deal to be had or that one supplier has something that another doesnt.. this isnt necessarily a bad thing though... an example of this is that i want to say that i dont shop at walmart because why do i want to support a company that does nothing good for its community but drive the mom and pop shops out of buisness, offer low wages to employees and then sell china made crap painted with lead paint that will poison our children??  well, the truth is that i have shopped there and have given them a total of 171 dollars to them in the last 2 years. (yes i keep track.. ) this doesnt make me a bad person.. just a person that thinks he bought a good product from some one that no one else carries..
or perhaps shopping at trail gear, allpro, inchworm  over marlin...  i have no problem buying something from another vendor if the main vendor i use cant or wont supply the product i need... this doesnt mean that now i am switching favorites.. it just means that i am trying to buy the best of everything for myself and why in the world would i cheat myself of that option if its out there.. marlin doesnt lose money from a product that they dont sell anyways.. they were never going to get that spent money unless they offered a product that was comparable or better than where i was buying from..
i love my country and do the best i can as a person to stand up for it but perhaps not all the actions i have carried out in my life reflect things that support my country 100 percent...  heck, if i really loved my country and north america wouldnt i try my best to keep our economy moving and buy nothing but north american made vehicles with north american roots??    why would i buy some jap vehicle and support some other countries economy?? it goes much deeper and its more complicated than that but seeing how well made all of the chevs and fords my parents have owned growing up made me realize that american made vehciles with american roots built by americans and canadians for that matter still dont have the quality that a  japanise vehicle has..     i own 4 landcruisers and a toyota pickup with the newest being 27 years old and the oldest being 32 years old..  i cant see anything built now adays being around for the next 15 years. now make that vehicle a domestic and you are goonna have even less life span.. with toyota hovering aorund the "#1 automaker in the world " mark, i feel that many other north americans feel the same as i do..
in the end it all comes down to what decisions you have made in your life and how comfortable you were in making them.. as well, not limiting yourself to something because of pre-conceived notions..  there is nothing worse you can do to limit yourself as a person is as to close your mind to an already narrow and closed  minded society..

[Cheesemaker]

Alot of good stuff here.  Germ and FJ-rank, made some good points that really stand out for me.  I try to buy locally, but when you got a very limited resource to shop from.  You get tired of getting gouged from a retail chain store, cause they came in and wiped out the mom and pop stores.  Granted there are a couple still left that try to be competitive price wise, but that means very little profit, if any.

~My take on Walmart.  I f*cking hate what they represent and do, but I have kids, and they grow fast and its the only place I can get them clothes without taking out a small loan.
~Starbucks, I hate them too. Their coffee sucks.  I can buy a can of folgers and filters and make myself 200+ cups of coffee as it would cost me to buy 8 black coffees.  And what part of black coffee do you not understand?  
~Micheal Moore, I like to a point.  Alot of his info, is all public knowledge.  Then he goes too far with most of it.  As for all the others, I like to see what they have got to say, and then make my own opinion from what I know.  You can't have a closed mind.  A closed mind is a ignorant mind, so it's worth listening to them to see what they have to say, even if it's bull crap.  They may have some good points that might just help you understand something that may have you confused on.
~I watch the news, read the paper and read posts/links online, but I take them as a grain of salt.  You get a feel on what seems to be true, and what seems crap.  I hate when people post links to sites that are pro-republican/democrat/liberal cause your not gonna get the truth.  You need to go to sites that don't take sides, and read many different articles to weed through the bs.  
~I prefer to buy American, but like FJ said, the Japanese have done a better job at building cars and looking toward the future of vehicles.  Majority of there cars are 4 cylinder and fuel efficient.  Ford, GM and Dodge have just now started doing that, only because the federal gov mandated it.

I try to stick to my values/principles, but there are times that you have to do what you have to do.  If you have to sidestep them once in a while, so be it, but you have to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning.  I'm on a limited budget, 3 kids and a mother in law that lives with us.  So, I have to do what I have to do to survive.  If that means shopping at Walmart, then I have to.  I don't like it, but I have to.  I don't believe in poaching, but if it means my family to have food on the table or starving to death, I'll poach if I have to.  (I have never poached, but I'm just saying)  I will do what I have to do to survive.  I may not like it, but..

I love my country and I'd do anything to protect what I have been given in this great country.  There are things I don't agree with, but thats why we have a democracy and the ability to have a voice.  I've met many foreign exchange students and talked about how their country is compared to ours.  Most of them can't stand up and have an opinion/voice without the fear of being put in prison with no trial. 

I'm done for now..  I'm tired and still sick as a dog.  

[germ]

I try to stick to my values/principles, but there are times that you have to do what you have to do.  If you have to sidestep them once in a while, so be it, but you have to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning.  I'm on a limited budget, 3 kids and a mother in law that lives with us.  So, I have to do what I have to do to survive.  If that means shopping at Walmart, then I have to.  I don't like it, but I have to.  I don't believe in poaching, but if it means my family to have food on the table or starving to death, I'll poach if I have to.  (I have never poached, but I'm just saying)  I will do what I have to do to survive.  I may not like it, but..

Very eloquent. I think you hit the nail on the head. There are certainly times, where we do not get a choice in the things we do. When circumstances dictate that we have to compromise our principals because of need, then I would agree it is acceptable, but if I have the choice, I will operate on what coencides with my morals and principals. Your example of poaching is well taken. This actually makes my point very clearly. My highest principal is to care for my family and provide for them in whatever way is needed. If that means that I have to hunt for my food, then I am prepared to do that, and will not have second thoughts about it. If it means that I have to shop at Wally World so that everyone eats, then so be it. That actually goes back to my point about being able to respect who you see in the mirror. If I've done everything possible to care for my family, then I have upheld my most important principal, and I am worthy of respect. If I lay on the couch, and watch my children suffer because I won't get off my ass, then I'm not worthy of anyones respect, especially my own.

I think that listening to others is a key in forming your own opinions. I get irritated with those that just spew forth the same rhetoric they have heard from others, without ever considering the other side of the argument. You have to understand both/all sides of an issue in order to form a realistic opinion. God gave us two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in the same proportion. Taking the time to read from multiple sources, and integrate the information is key, but unfortunately, most people are either unable (stupid) or unwilling (Lazy) to do that. It is better to keep your mouth shut and risk looking like a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Erik

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

nice comments guys

It sounds like I'm pretty much inline with most of you. 

This all stemmed from a discussion with a few other guys at work, and was based around the housing crunch.  We were discussing the idea that people are walking away from their homes, and allowing them to go into foreclosure simply because their house has dropped in value.  It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or not, they're not having to struggle to make the mortgage, they just don't think its "fair" that they should be paying their mortgage when other people who've just bought houses in the neighbor hood are paying a lot less.

[kneedownnate]

That's quite messed up and is a good way to quickly build up bad kharma. 

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

That's quite messed up and is a good way to quickly build up bad kharma. 

agreed.

IMO, I signed a contract stating I would pay X amount for X number of years.  Regardless of what happens to the economy or value, it doesn't excuse me from that contract.

I guess it just goes back to "a mans word is his bond," or when handshakes were used to seal a deal, and it actually meant something.

[*** YELLER ***]

For me Its simple
If you know me then you understand
       
      MARINE

NO BETTER FRIEND   

NO WORSE ENEMY 



 

[Cheesemaker]

I guess it just goes back to "a mans word is his bond," or when handshakes were used to seal a deal, and it actually meant something.

This is how I live my life.  All the people I grew up around taught me that a handshake was stronger than a paper contract.  When I say I'm gonna do something, I do it.  Sometimes it may take longer than expected, but it will get done.

[*** YELLER ***]

This is how I live my life.  All the people I grew up around taught me that a handshake was stronger than a paper contract.  When I say I'm gonna do something, I do it.  Sometimes it may take longer than expected, but it will get done.

X10

[joeycool00]

  We will never buy a ford focus again! or ford product of any kind! tranny died at 30,000... gauge light and rear pass window died at 40,000..., rear wheels started to camber out at 50,000 (going through rear sets of tires like nothing else, no adjustment from factory! thats bullshavic!) and finally the nail in the coffin...broke a piston ring at 70,000... traded in for a 95 4runner with 150,000, the only good thing that came out of this pile of SHOE!