Topic: Forclosure disaster

[germ]

Read this article last night, and it made me think about how this is going to affect the entire national economy. Not only are the people who made poor choices going to get hurt, but the people who had absolutly nothing to do with the entire process are going to end up paying for this debacle. We all are seeing the ramifications of the credit crunch caused by the housing market deflating, but I think it is going to get significantly worse...for everyone. Even credit card companies are running scared, which doesn't bode well for those who have managed their credit wisely. It pisses me off that when credit companies make poor choices, (lending unrealistic amounts of money to people who have questionable credit or ability to make payments) the rest of the country comes to a screeching halt, and the "taxpayer" is the one who gets hit in the pocketbook.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/HomeownerBailoutIsALousyIdea.aspx

I'd be interested in others thoughts, opinions and personal experiences.

Erik

[Rocksurfer]

I've seen this disaster coming for a long time now, it has been not only in housing but basically throughout the whole way we buy stuff. There is only one reason prices are high, because no matter how much someone is charging for something people are still buying and buying and buying. If they can't afford it they turn to credit which they cannot afford to pay off, and what's even worse those that are extending the credit to us don't seem to care if we can pay it back. Now everyone is so deep in debt that they are just walking away from everything and starting again somewhere else. It was so bad purchasing homes that there were bidding wars, up and up they went paying way more than was even reasonable for a home. Now it is coming back to haunt them and they don't know what to do other than to just walk away with the new bankruptcy laws. There is no way to get out free and clear so they just slip out thinking that everything will just disappear, but even with bankruptcy you don't get a clean slate anymore. I owe just about 0 to any creditor and I like it that way, sure I've bought a few cars in the past decade but I didn't get a vehicle that cost more that some people mortgages. I know a few people that have 3 and 4 car payments, credit card wallets so big that they need a shoulder strap of their own, boats, bikes, toybox trailers, motorhomes,etc., etc., now they are scrambling as their variable mortgage is going through the roof and still refuse to give up their toys. I have sat and thought about how life was as I grew up and we didn't have all those expensive toys everyone demands today. Even the 80's people didn't put their toys before their homes, now people cash out their homes to buy stupid toys. I could see using your homes value to do improvements to your home, or to even loan yourself some money to buy a car since homeloans have a much lower rate to pay back. People are taking loans to buy luxury items like boats, bikes, toyboxes which is plain stupid. If you can afford it then that's one thing but to risk your home for a worthless toy is a joke, and it is coming back to haunt those that did.

[BLACKDOG]

I was raised by parents who lived far below their means, and managed their finances very well.  After 23 years in the AF, and flying as a Commercial pilot for the last 4 years, my dad continues to do so.  He bought his first boat this past year, and rather than buying a brand new one, he shopped smart, and purchased a 1987 boat in great shape, for a 5th of the cost of a new one.  Since he bought his first car in 1980 (new) he's bought 2 other brand new cars, a 1987 caravan that he owned until 2002, and a chevy tahoe that he bought in '03, and will prolly own for the next 10 years.  All of his other vehicles have been purchased used (1991 van bought in 1993 (still have) , 1984 FJ60 bought in 1991, 1999 Chrysler cirrus purchased in 2001 (still have), and some other ones that have come and gone.)  Sure, I went without dirtbikes, quads, and whatnot, but I learned invaluable lessons that I am implementing myself.

I don't have any credit card debt that I couldn't pay off tommorow, I mainly use my CCs to build credit for future purchases, like a home, and my "new" 02 F250 that I bought a few months ago.  Rather than go buy a brand new truck, I bought one with fairly low miles, reliable, and something that I plan on owning for another 10 years, at least.  That is the only debt that I have that I cannot pay off right at this moment, but I see it as a long term investment, and am treating it as such, not something I'm going to turn around in 2 years, and "upgrade" to another vehicle, and go into more debt. 

I hope to purchase a house in the next few years, and I certainly plan on following in my dad's footsteps, and buying a house that is not only within my means, but below it.  I don't mind buying a fixer'upper, because I know I can do the work (yes, I know that word may be unfamilar to some) and that I'll be in that house for a long time.

[germ [OP]]

There is only one reason prices are high, because no matter how much someone is charging for something people are still buying and buying and buying. If they can't afford it they turn to credit which they cannot afford to pay off, and what's even worse those that are extending the credit to us don't seem to care if we can pay it back.

You nailed it right on the head. It is an obsession with consumerism that is causing people to make poor choices. We have become slaves of the commercial, which is meant to convince us that we cannot live without something, and we're starting to believe it. The credit card compainies are loving our indiscretion because they are reaping huge amounts of $$ as people try to rescue their credit and pay huge fees. They only start to squirm when people start walking away from their debts.

It's kind of like that old joke from the 80's..."I can't be out of money, I still have checks left" (Of course, I'm showing my age here, 'cause no body uses checks anymore it seems). People are generally weak when it comes to these purchases. They will run the credit card to it's limit, without contemplating how the hell they will make the payments.

Erik

[BLACKDOG]

checks? 

[germ [OP]]

BD it's good to see that you have learned from the wisdom of your parents. Many would do *exactly opposite* if for no other reason than to spite their folks. it's a shame more people are not as wise as you. I think the country would be in much better shape today if people learned to live within their means and make well thought out choices.

Erik

[germ [OP]]

checks? 

Yea, kinda like cash, another dinosaur from a bygone era.

[BLACKDOG]

BD it's good to see that you have learned from the wisdom of your parents. Many would do *exactly opposite* if for no other reason than to spite their folks. it's a shame more people are not as wise as you. I think the country would be in much better shape today if people learned to live within their means and make well thought out choices.

Erik

In all honesty, it really ticks me off when people use credit cards, throwing them around like they're going out of style.  Our society is a society of overindulgence, which I think is a shame.  It sets a bad example for our future generations, and its screwing the people who actually work hard for what they own, and treat it with care and consideration, because they'll make it last a long time.  Sure, we beat on our rigs, and cause costly damage to them, but I think I can safely say the majority of us roll up our shirt sleeves, and get to work rectifying the problem, instead of buyin a new rig, or in many cases, a new part.  I look back on society in the early 20th century (and before) and long for the days when people were resourceful, stuff was repaired, and not replaced constantly, and owing money to someone or a company was a mark of shame, only surpassed by the shame of not being able to repay the debt. 

[germ [OP]]

Sure, we beat on our rigs, and cause costly damage to them, but I think I can safely say the majority of us roll up our shirt sleeves, and get to work rectifying the problem, instead of buyin a new rig, or in many cases, a new part.

Youre absolutly right. This however is a calculated expense, and with a few exceptions, I would think none of us go out with the expressed intention of destroying our rig. I think we plan on an adventure, and know that there is a calculated risk that something(s) can and will break, and we choose to take that risk. I think we are also a group of enthusiasts who would rather resurect an old beast and wheel the piss out of it, than go buy a new truck and watch it depreciate much quicker because of our chosen sport.

Erik

[Rocksurfer]

I'm totally obsessed with finding a way not to damage my truck, everytime I hit something it's like oh that's gonna hurt my wallet. Plus I usually buy cheap and only spend enough to make it a good wheeler, I don't need to climb that alternate route that is not a part of the trail just to prove how awesome my rig and I am, though sometimes I do just for fun.

I've watched rigs go from awesome trail rigs to trash in minutes last year I saw a rig cost its owner about $6,000.00 in a matter of minutes. Well that's the loss he took when he sold it after destroying it on one optional obstacle.

Building these rigs is a great example how much money someone will spend for stuff you don't need to have an awesome rig, there are just a few things that come to mind when I build a rig they are lift, gears, lockers and tires most everything else is for the most part is just not worth the money. All my rigs must be streetable, I must stay as legal as possible. There may be some exceptions for those that do the extreme trails but that is about 1% of us. I don't see most people that spend all this money to make an unstoppable truck going out and wheeling the piss out of it. This would be a prime example of this spend, spend, spend without reguard for the cost that people are doing. Just Friday I went and bought a Hi Lift jack and a mounting bracket for my truck and just about shat my pants at how much it cost, it was $122.00 bucks. If I didn't really need one I would have not got it. I looked around the place and couldn't believe how much some of that junk was that they were selling and I'm sure people are buying it since they are still in business.

[BLACKDOG]

Youre absolutly right. This however is a calculated expense, and with a few exceptions, I would think none of us go out with the expressed intention of destroying our rig. I think we plan on an adventure, and know that there is a calculated risk that something(s) can and will break, and we choose to take that risk. I think we are also a group of enthusiasts who would rather resurect an old beast and wheel the piss out of it, than go buy a new truck and watch it depreciate much quicker because of our chosen sport.

Erik

  I was trying to say that we don't have a total disregard for our belongings, that we respect them, and atempt to treat them well, and don't treat them as disposable.  Rather, they are something worth maintaining, repairing, and keeping.

[germ [OP]]

I believe people have lost the sense of value. We have become a "disposable" society, and it ranges from diapers to homes. They think they can just walk away if things don't go well, and don't give it a second thought. Unfortunatly it does have ramifications, because we all end up paying for it in the end, in terms of higher prices, and "fees" that are added on.

Erik

[Plekto]

Yep - I've been telling people about this as well.  We're heading into another Great Depression.

Now, this isn't bad, really.  Even in the 30s, 80% of the U.S. was employed and survived without much trouble.  they were frugal and battened down the hatches as it were and weathered it out for a decade.

You just have to realize this and get ready.  No credit, pay off your house or at least the 2nd loans and such.  NO new cars.  (hint - old truck STILL costs less than a new car's payments).

About this, I feel very little sympathy.  Sure, people want, but if you can't afford a home, don't buy one.  It'll bite you eventually.  Every time.

[rlwjaw]

  BD for PRESIDENT

[BLACKDOG]

  BD for PRESIDENT

  Sorry, but I'm not old enough yet

I'll throw my vote in for Germ though!

[germ [OP]]

  Sorry, but I'm not old enough yet

I'll throw my vote in for Germ though!

Thanks Jason! I appreciate that! 

Maybe I should run for  ...naw don't think it would be as much fun!

Erik

[Rocksurfer]

Thanks Jason! I appreciate that! 

Maybe I should run for  ...naw don't think it would be as much fun!

Erik

...and I nominate brainless to be your queen. 

[CTENG in KS]

Buy HIGH Sell LOW!!!!


The government will bail you out...don't worry!

[germ [OP]]

and I nominate brainless to be your queen

I think Brainless would make a great queen. No disrespect.....f