Topic: transfer case output shaft failure?

[boggerunner]

i dont see it working, the fror dissc. uses the stock splines, and the marlin output has more splines.

[87pickup]

i dont see it working, the fror dissc. uses the stock splines, and the marlin output has more splines.

Well that blows

[megatoy66]

Just remember the Longfield HD Output shaft is only designed for low speed, definitely off road use ONLY

Sorry to burst your bubble but many, many people including myself run their toyotas on the street with Bobby's output shaft and have had NO problems with them.
I have run them for 4 years now with ZERO issues at all. One rig is on 42"s and the other is on cut 47"s. Definitely NOT for offroad use only, you should get your facts straight before you open your mouth.

[blackdiamond]

Sorry to burst your bubble but many, many people including myself run their toyotas on the street with Bobby's output shaft and have had NO problems with them.
I have run them for 4 years now with ZERO issues at all. One rig is on 42"s and the other is on cut 47"s. Definitely NOT for offroad use only, you should get your facts straight before you open your mouth.

If Bobby Longs input output shaft doesn't have an oil port drilled in it then BigMike is correct that it isn't designed for high speed operation.  His explanation is factual, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible for people to have success running them on the street.  Toyota's OEM design may be adequate to compensate for this feature being removed, but if it does cause a failure it creates a dangerous situation.  I've had a t-case lock up twice and was blessed in both situations that nothing locked at full highway speeds.  I was on the highway both times and the second time my rear tires locked up once I slowed to about 35 mph.

[Brian H]

If Bobby Longs input output shaft doesn't have an oil port drilled in it then BigMike is correct that it isn't designed for high speed operation.  His explanation is factual, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible for people to have success running them on the street.  Toyota's OEM design may be adequate to compensate for this feature being removed, but if it does cause a failure it creates a dangerous situation.  I've had a t-case lock up twice and was blessed in both situations that nothing locked at full highway speeds.  I was on the highway both times and the second time my rear tires locked up once I slowed to about 35 mph.

What was the failure? Was it Bobbys output or something else? Two times of lock up sounds like something else is the problem I doubt it was bobbys product. Never had a problem with Bobbys output and I have ran it as long as it has been out. Sounds to me your problem was a maintance issue or in proper installation.

[Aaronn]

more discussion on this topic
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=783811

[blackdiamond]

What was the failure? Was it Bobbys output or something else? Two times of lock up sounds like something else is the problem I doubt it was bobbys product. Never had a problem with Bobbys output and I have ran it as long as it has been out. Sounds to me your problem was a maintance issue or in proper installation.

   I don't have the Bobby Long output shaft, just an example of the danger or t-case failures on the road.  I know what the problem with mine was and it has been solved.

[BigMike]

more discussion on this topic
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=783811

Wow, I was really personally attacked over there. That is too unfortunate.. A bunch of drama queens. I wrote a reply on Pirates and will present it here as well. This is a pretty cool debate in my opinion!

As quoted from http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9765337&postcount=22,

Hello Pirates and ColoradoToy91,

This has turned into quite an interesting topic for sure!

First, I would like to clear up very important facts surrounding this debate, especially since I feel personally attacked by replies above.

#1) our 30-spline HD output shaft has been out since September of 2008 and Marlin Crawler, Inc. has made no effort at attacking Bobby's product. You may check the records to verify this. I, as the webmaster for Marlin, could very easily have thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, but I feel Bobby’s output shaft is not a competing product of ours. Bobby makes a replacement output shaft and hub gear made of a different material whereas Marlin has completely reengineered the original Toyota design replacing it with Tundra V8 components. The Marlin shaft uses an oversized output bearing, an oversized housing, an oversized 4WD hub gear, an oversized oil pump seal, oversized speedometer cable drive and oil pump components, and a 30-spline double sealed oversized flange. We also manufacture our shaft using a proper bearing race Chromoly steel whereas Bobby uses a steel that is not suited for bearing races. This is truly the reason why we consider our 30-spline shaft as a competition grade output shaft. I feel there is no comparison between the two products.

Additionally, Bobby Long isn't the only other company who offers a replacement output shaft – All Pro Off Road makes a HD replacement shaft that retains the factory Toyota oil pump system – and we have made no attempt at “attacking” their shaft either.
 
#2) Please understand that my original intent was to clarify ColoradoToy91's comment on our forum, as quoted (source),

Just because it isn’t "rifle drilled" doesn’t mean it wont oil the same as stock

ColoradoToy91 clearly wrote in error as the Bobby shaft most certainly will not oil the same as stock, both theoretically and empirically speaking. However, to his defense, on reply #7 above we can understand where he is coming from CT91 wrote,

I was unaware of the lack of an oiling hole that he speaks of on the longfield shaft.

After I explained to CT91 regarding the lack of oiling of the Bobby shaft, it was his request for a "further explanation of why putting longs output in completely eliminates the oil pump...." (source) and that is why I further explained myself. It was an answer to his question and NOT to hurt Bobby or those who use Bobby's output shaft. Bobby already knows this information, this is nothing new under the sun.


#3) Please gentlemen, and I say this with all due respect for Bobby and everyone who runs Bobby's product, I NEVER said NOT to use his product. What I did write is what happens to your transfer case when you use his product. I presented factual data that supports my opinion on this subject which I believe leaves little or no room for dispute.

Please understand that all I have said is that you are at a greater risk of burning up your transfer case when you use a product that has eliminated the stock Toyota oil pump of the transfer case. I believe the reader will also come to this same conclusion. I didn’t say your transfer case will “blow up”, I am saying it is at a greater “risk of burning up” and I feel 100% absolutely convicted of this.

This has been an excellent debate for me because I actually sat down and thought things over from a logical and mechanical view point regarding what would happen if you removed the oiling from the transfer case. I have gained a far greater insight as I am sure my readers have as well. I really threw all my information together despite being interrupted numerous times and without redrafting, but after re-reading what I wrote I think it turned out ok.

And for all of the excellent Bobby Long customers who are running the Bobby output shaft: cheers! We do not incorrectly represent Bobby’s product on the phone, on our forum, or on the trail. Bobby has been a long time Marlin supporter and in fact I have his 27 spline Longfields in my personal truck, running strong for over 4 years now.

But one product of Bobby’s I won't be running is his output shaft simply because it is my personal conviction that Toyota engineered the oil pump for a purpose and I don't want to risk burning up my tcase. my2cents

Respectfully submitted,
BigMike

[87pickup]

Well put Bigmike

[JanMarie13]

I don't see where this is even a "debate", I think it's nothing more than drama started by someone who felt like being childish.

IS THE FREAKING HOLE THERE OR NOT??  Doesn't sound like it is.  Therefore Mike's facts are straight and what he stated was factual.  PROBABLE?  Obviously not, based on the number of people running the product who haven't had trouble.  POSSIBLE?  Definitely, as proven by Mike's facts.  Now it's an individual choice whether or not to take the risk.

It didn't have to turn into a "whose stuff is better" type of debate--I definitely didn't get the feeling that that's how Mike intended it to be at all.  Yet when it was taken to Pirate it definitely appeared to be a "Hey look what 'Marlin' said about you guys" type of tattling session.   

[peacesells [OP]]

I think the oil sling coming off of the lower gears keeps the long output sufficiently lubricated as reliability does not seem to be an issue(based on nobody having a bearing failure with a long output) for the type of driving I do. To me as to many other people, it all boils down to price.. Sure id like to have the marlin shaft for all reasons stated, but its the difference between buying a cavalier vs a cadillac to me. They will both get me where I wanna go in the end. 

[COToy91]

I don't see where this is even a "debate", I think it's nothing more than drama started by someone who felt like being childish.

IS THE FREAKING HOLE THERE OR NOT??  Doesn't sound like it is.  Therefore Mike's facts are straight and what he stated was factual.  PROBABLE?  Obviously not, based on the number of people running the product who haven't had trouble.  POSSIBLE?  Definitely, as proven by Mike's facts.  Now it's an individual choice whether or not to take the risk.

It didn't have to turn into a "whose stuff is better" type of debate--I definitely didn't get the feeling that that's how Mike intended it to be at all.  Yet when it was taken to Pirate it definitely appeared to be a "Hey look what 'Marlin' said about you guys" type of tattling session.  

Why dont you realize what i said on pirate, I asked if anyone had SEEN THE FAILURES that Mike was describing and i was asking for response. So realize what you are accusing. I quoted here specifically and added nothing more.

[JanMarie13]

Why dont you realize what i said on pirate, I asked if anyone had SEEN THE FAILURES that Mike was describing and i was asking for response. So realize what you are accusing. I quoted here specifically and added nothing more.

Sorry, but I've read and re-read the Pirate thread and it continues to come across to me that way, especially since you were so quick to jump on the "let's bash BigMike" bandwagon over there, with saying his information is a bunch of BS and the flipoffs and whatnot.     

In the thread here about the Antarctic ice shelf, I think you made it pretty clear that the scientific facts exist and therefore anyone who does not believe in global warming must be an idiot (maybe it was moron, who knows).  So why is this so different?  Mike showed you the scientific facts, no?

Look any way you cut it, I think the real question you should be asking is....if said oiling hole does not exist, then how DOES the output shaft take care of the oiling?  Obviously somehow, since it's been pointed out many times without argument that there are hundreds and hundreds of these things in operation without failure thus far.

I guess that's what does make this a debate. And I really no longer have a point.  LOL.  Carry on....

[JanMarie13]

....if said oiling hole does not exist, then how DOES the output shaft take care of the oiling? 

Woops nevermind...I see that Bobby did answer this in the Pirate thread.  His answer was that just by the gears turning, things get oiled well enough or he wouldn't sell them. 

So there you have it.  Just another case of real-world experience going against scientific facts to the contrary.  I still don't believe that Mike meant it to be any sort of Marlin pitch or diss to Bobby's product.  Bobby Long is a VERY well-respected name here on the Marlin forum, and I just think it's unfortunate that this got blown so far up that people now believe otherwise.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Woops nevermind...I see that Bobby did answer this in the Pirate thread.  His answer was that just by the gears turning, things get oiled well enough or he wouldn't sell them. 

So there you have it.  Just another case of real-world experience going against scientific facts to the contrary.  I still don't believe that Mike meant it to be any sort of Marlin pitch or diss to Bobby's product.  Bobby Long is a VERY well-respected name here on the Marlin forum, and I just think it's unfortunate that this got blown so far up that people now believe otherwise.

Exactly!!  Just as I said over there the US designed t-cases never had any oil pump yet they survived towing heavy loads and extreme abuse for decades.  Toyota over engineers so much of their products I think the oil pump system is just overkill.  Use good oil and leave it at that.  I will be running a output from bobby when my stock on dies this summer based upon one simple thought.  What if worse comes to worse and I lose a bearing on a Marlin output shaft?  It is all proprietary parts that aren't common like the stock stuff.  I do my best to keep everything on the truck basic so I can get parts anywhere if the need should arise.

[CrawfishStu]

I have a long output going in my tc right now.  I broke the stock one off at the end of the threads but since I'm running a driveline disco I had to keep the stock spline count.

[BigMike]

This whole thing has turned into a real mess over on Pirates. It started out as a fun tech article but has turned into a huge drama llama...

I just posted the following on Pirates,

I have said my peace and am trying to stay out of all this unrelated drama.

I think the whole problem here is a result of the opening sentence of this thread that gives the reader an immediate wong impression. ColoradoToy91 referenced me with completely false information, so I have sent a PM to CT91 requesting him to remove what he falsly accused me of saying.

Man this is really sad that a vender would do this, just because it's not like theres.

Bobby, I will give you a call around lunch time regarding your misunderstanding and all the false acquisitions contained herein.

Has anyone here even bothered reading my reply, reply #22, on the first page?

This is really unfortunate for both myself and also for Bobby. Bobby I am sorry that a member from our forum falsly accused your product as something that will kill your customers transfer cases. This certainly is not the opinion of myself or Marlin Crawler, Inc.

I'll call you soon-

BigMike

[CrawfishStu]

Looks like people who can't/won't read and love drama.

I get your explanation and it makes sense.  I get his point and given that there are not 100 threads on these things blowing up, I'd say it's valid as well.

[COToy91]

MPA, read what you will, but my questions was never to smack talk Bigmike or marlins product. I was looking to see if this happens and why long designed his with the oiling hole absent. I clarified that in the first post on pirate now and my apologies