This year at PAP, it jus so happend that we were there on the weeken of the EC4J, we were cruzn 'round the park, chattn w/ other yoter fellas, there was a group of yoter guys taken a break on the side of the road, we pulld over to say what up, and they wanted nothing to do w/ us.......i dunno..........we all had rigs capable of doing red trails(highest level), i dont think it was cuz they were haven a bad day, cuz it was in the early morn'n