Topic: 22RE is toast.....on the way to a rebuild! Pg. 2 for the start of the progress!!

[4Runner_guy]

Hey guys, I recently did a timing chain replacement, head gasket replacement, front main seal and o-ring for the oil pump (22RE engine with 250k). All parts are OEM from the dealership and I used the FSM quite often to help me trouble shoot. I drove the truck for a week and opened the hood a few days ago to find out that I had oil all over the front of the engine; belts, hood, front chassis, and etc.
So it led me to believe that the front main was possibly installed wrong or o-ring might of gotten pinched during the install so I went ahead and bought me another set of o-ring and front main seal from the dealership today. Pulled everything off and pressure washed her down to get a better idea of where the potential leak is coming from and replaced both the parts adding RTV silicone on the oil pump and the top bolt. Got done with the job a few hours a go and drove around for nearly 10 mins, parked her and still leaks!! WTF.
Any ideas of what I could be doing wrong? Timing chain cover shows no signs of leaks, no dripping from crank pulley, but sprays a crap load of misty oil all over the place, I need some guidance please, so if anyone could help shed some light on this frustrating issue, it would be greatly appreciated, thx.

**Edit, gonna go ahead and rebuild the motor so hope this will be an exciting and rewarding experience!

[Prismo]

If there is a groove in the harmonic balancer/crank pulley collar where the seal rides it could leak there even with a new seal. They do make a product called a redi sleeve that would fix this if that is the problem.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

How would I detect this? Do I pull off the crank pulley to inspect the groove and if so, how do I know if its bad or not? Thx for the reply.

[Prismo]

If it is leaking as badly as you describe, I think you would be able to start it & use a good worklight to look everything over closely . The leak should be pretty easy to see, you might have to lay under it with that fake skid plate pulled off to see behind the crank pulley to figure out if it is coming from there. Just be careful with your hands & light around fans, pulleys & belts!

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

I'm gonna pull off the crank pulley tomorrow and see if there is any visible clues for grooves on the pulley. I didn't notice any drip or running of oil from the bottom of the engine cause I was closely monitoring the crank pulley and oil pump. If so, I might either get a redi sleeve for it and use that as a patch up but I have heard of stories that it may not work too. The other thing is to just replace the harmonic balancer and call it a day cause I'm sure that the oil pump is still good. I just noticed that I cannot torque the harmonic balancer to 116 lbs without breaking the timing chain so that maybe another issue as to why it is leaking now as to before the timing chain replacement. So as of now, its only torqued down to 30-38 lbs cause I already broke one timing chain from torquing it down to specs, which that does present to be a huge problem so the pulley may be the culprit to my frustrations....

[_HOIST_]

Wow, how were you stopping the engine from rotating while trying to torque it down when the timing chain broke?

With that much oil coming out it seems lik you should be able to pinpoint the leak. If the fan is slinging oil all over the place preventing you from finding the leak source you could take the fan off and just put the nuts/washers back on and run it. That way there's much less air movement and you should be able to see where it's coming from. I know it's a PITA, but you gotta do what you gotta do to find it ya know...

[85runner_]

It's called a chain wrench. Hold crank pulley stationary and torque to spec.   

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Wow, how were you stopping the engine from rotating while trying to torque it down when the timing chain broke?

With that much oil coming out it seems lik you should be able to pinpoint the leak. If the fan is slinging oil all over the place preventing you from finding the leak source you could take the fan off and just put the nuts/washers back on and run it. That way there's much less air movement and you should be able to see where it's coming from. I know it's a PITA, but you gotta do what you gotta do to find it ya know...

Yeah, I used the 5th gear and 4 low method so that was my fault. But I also used the chain wrench method and after torquing it down, I tried to rotate the crank by hand at first to see it it would spin freely and it wouldn't budge even when all gears was set to neutral....so it just leaves me scratching my head with confusion so I just applied some locktite and be done with it

[85runner_]

Sounds like motors on compression stroke if crank won't move by hand

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Sounds like motors on compression stroke if crank won't move by hand

What does that mean? Is my motor bad then?

[Sparkplug]

Ive never had to torque a 22r crankshaft nut. I get em on till the motor turns over instead of the nut, and never ever had a problem.

Ive never heard of someone breaking a timing chain tightening the nut. If that happened id be checking all the other parts of the timing system.

The compression stroke is part of the 4stroke cycle of your engine.

Im betting you have a leak from the timing cover itself, they are a pain to seal up right. It could be the front main, but those dont usually leak near as bad as your describing.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Ive never had to torque a 22r crankshaft nut. I get em on till the motor turns over instead of the nut, and never ever had a problem.

Ive never heard of someone breaking a timing chain tightening the nut. If that happened id be checking all the other parts of the timing system.

The compression stroke is part of the 4stroke cycle of your engine.

Im betting you have a leak from the timing cover itself, they are a pain to seal up right. It could be the front main, but those dont usually leak near as bad as your describing.

It only seems to leak and blow all over when I drive. I allowed the truck to sit and run for nearly 10-15 mins to see if it would run and there was no sign but the minute I drive it for 5-10 mins, park it, and pop the hood to see oil on the hood, belts, and etc. so the timing chain cover is possibly not the issue and could be the crank pully that's shot.

[85runner_]

Silly question but is your oil filler cap on tight, dip stick in all the way, Pcv cloged?

Stick a go pro in there and drive it.

[blackdiamond]

The biggest difference between sitting and driving is RPM, right?  Have some one give it a little gas while you watch it. 

[Cheesemaker]

How does it look down around the oil pan by the timing cover?  BIL's truck was puking oil, and that was the culprit.  Ended up using a crap load of RTV to get it to stop leaking. 

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

How does it look down around the oil pan by the timing cover?  BIL's truck was puking oil, and that was the culprit.  Ended up using a crap load of RTV to get it to stop leaking. 

Its dry. The only noticeable part is the crank pulley cause its always covered with oil, hence the slinging of oil on the fan and everywhere else.

The biggest difference between sitting and driving is RPM, right?  Have some one give it a little gas while you watch it. 

I tried just revving the engine from the throttle and it was doing just fine but I also noticed that there was a mist of oil being driven from the belt and spraying all over the engine components

Silly question but is your oil filler cap on tight, dip stick in all the way, Pcv cloged?

Stick a go pro in there and drive it.

Did a check up on that and all seems to be fine.

Well, went ahead and put the speedy sleeve on and torqued her down to 116lbs and drove for 10 mins....no leak so far. The sleeve actually allowed me to insert the crank pulley onto the shaft really easy. I torqued her down and was able to rotate the crank two whole cycles without any hesitation so it leads me to believe the grooves imbedded on the crank pulley was the cause of why I couldn't torque it down correctly. Its progress for the most part so I'll revive this thread in the next 100 miles and see how she holds up. But this is what I did:
Worn grooved harmonic balancer:


New sleeve:

Sleeve installed onto harmonic balancer with locktite:



Big thx for all those who helped with suggestions, I hope that this will help others who are dealing with the same issue and I'd be happy to help another member out as long as this trick works.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Unfortunately today, my truck took a dump on me while driving on the freeway today. Heard a loud pop then felt a hard vibration and the motor just gave out. So I'm sure the internals are ruined either top or bottom. So now I'm in the market for a motor. Would a rebuild be good or should I just fork out extra money for a new motor? Gosh, this is a nightmare....

[_HOIST_]

Before even thinking about a rebuild I would tear it down and see the extent of the damage.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Before even thinking about a rebuild I would tear it down and see the extent of the damage.

I spent the last 2-3 months on timing chain replacement, oil pan, head gasket, and cleaning the surfaces of the block and head. Time right now is really not something I have. It's my DD and I need it so as much as I would like to tear it apart and figure out what's wrong, I just can't afford having it sit in my drive way for another month or two.

[86rustbucket]

I would find a good used motor locally that's ready to go and just drop in.   Then you can set the old motor aside and do what you want with it.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

I would find a good used motor locally that's ready to go and just drop in.   Then you can set the old motor aside and do what you want with it.

I really don't trust using a used motor unless I know the history and the workmanship done to it. To spend money on a used motor and dish out more money for a rebuild is pretty much like buying a new rebuilt motor by the time everything is said and done. But thx for the suggestion.

[Rocksurfer]

A quick search found these guys they even give a 70,000 mile warranty.

http://usengine.us/

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

A quick search found these guys they even give a 70,000 mile warranty.

http://usengine.us/

There's a shop located in San Jose, Ca that sells a complete long block with metal guide and metal head gasket for $1,700 with new parts top to bottom....sounds tempting.

[Rocksurfer]

Was just about the same price, if they have a good warranty go for it.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Was just about the same price, if they have a good warranty go for it.

Not the same warranty but comes with oil pump gear, metal chain guides, and metal head gasket. Comes with a 1 yr/12,000 warranty.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Gonna start tearing out the motor and get it ready for either a reman or new motor from japan engines. I've read up that japan engines are not emissions legal? If so, I'm gonna have to look else where, such as maybe oregon engine builders (heard good and bad), 22re.com, or s and j engines. There are local engines for sale but are used so as much as I want to get one to get her running again, I just don't trust a "used" motor.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

Hmm....after some research, I may consider buying a new head from engbldr with a rv 268 cam, timing chain set with metal guides and have the short block rebuilt using EB's master kit from ebay and hope I come around $1-1,400 possibly....


**Does anyone know of a good reputable shop locally here in fresno that can do a good job for rebuilding my block? This is gonna take more time now as I really wanted to just slap in a new motor and be done with it but I got the ok to use another car until my truck is up and running again so now I have a little time to do a rebuild as long as all the parts are ordered and sent on time so I'm looking anywhere from 2-3weeks before the build is complete.

[Cheesemaker]

DON"T go through Oregon Engine Rebuilders!!!!!!!!!!    They are crap. 

Give Marlin or Mike a call.  They might be able to steer you in the right direction.  Or any of the Fresno peeps.

[Prismo]

Realize the new head from Enginebuildr is cast in South America. Mine lasted almost 2 years until a void in the casting developed into a water leak into the combustion chamber. It is also pretty common to have cracks in a used head. Get a machinist to pressure test a used head before he rebuilds it if you go that route.

[4Runner_guy [OP]]

DON"T go through Oregon Engine Rebuilders!!!!!!!!!!    They are crap. 

Give Marlin or Mike a call.  They might be able to steer you in the right direction.  Or any of the Fresno peeps.

Yeah, so I've heard. Good for the price but bad on parts....I pm'd Marlin about where to go for a good machine shop so hopefully I'll hear from him soon or I'll just call first thing monday morning.

Realize the new head from Enginebuildr is cast in South America. Mine lasted almost 2 years until a void in the casting developed into a water leak into the combustion chamber. It is also pretty common to have cracks in a used head. Get a machinist to pressure test a used head before he rebuilds it if you go that route.

You mean to have a machinist pressure test the new head from engbldr? Or you meant my old head? I was gonna just rebuild the block and get engbldr's street RV head with the 268 cam. If any hiccups occur during the process, hope Ted can shed some light and help.