Topic: HMMWV 4Runner Rear Suspension Advice

[gdunkle]

Hey Everyone,

I have a 2000 4Runner that we had modified into a HMMWV looking type vehicle. The builder somehow miscalculated and now the rear wheels set closer to the front of the wheel wells than they do to the rear of the wheel wells.  I'm looking for ideas on the the best way to center the rear wheels in the wheel wells.  My friend MPA suggested I start a thread.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys may be able to provide!

Graham

Here it is with 33s I run on it:



Here it is with the stock size wheels/tires I had it inspected with:

[jimbo74]

move the axle back

[gdunkle [OP]]

I hadn't considered that.  Thanks Jimbo. 

[jimbo74]

i am being serious....

what kind of suspension does it have?

if you don't have the ability to do it yourself, then i would make the builder who screwed it up in the first place move it back

the mounts will just need to be moved and possibly the driveshaft extended, but it shouldn't be that bad....

that does look pretty cool though, however, those tires look really odd on it, you need at least some 35s on it.... the stockers are around a 35" size, i see real hmmwvs daily, and soon will have them on my gov license as well

[79coyotefrg]

graham,  I'm one of the guys MPA messaged about this thing.

is it possible to just move the body forward on the frame??

if not, then I need you to remove one of the back wheels and get some pictures of the links and coils and where they attach above the axle.

[jimbo74]

i think it would be best to move the rear axle back, especially if going with larger tires because under compression, the firewall in front of the doors is where vehicles usually rub, and where the front is at now, looks perfect

also, i think it would be easier to move the rear axle back than try to move the entire body forward

[bleakhorizon]

i think it would be best to move the rear axle back, especially if going with larger tires because under compression, the firewall in front of the doors is where vehicles usually rub, and where the front is at now, looks perfect

also, i think it would be easier to move the rear axle back than try to move the entire body forward

x2

2000 runners were coiled.... so its prob linked in the rear....  not to fun to move the whole axle, lengthen the links, coil buckets... not to mention the fuel tank, spare tire...... Take it back to the builder MAKE him do it right... you paid him (assuming) to do a job right not what you got...






BTW.... looks good!

[THK Matt]

is it possible to section the frame and just move that section of the frame back?

thats a pretty slick rig man.

More pics!

[JanMarie13]

Graham!  That thing is pretty slick for sure!  Do you use that for your paintball expeditions?

[gdunkle [OP]]

Thanks to everyone for your help so far.

Jimbo:

bleakhorizon is correct.  It has coils.
I don't have the ability to move the axle back myself, but I think I can find someone to do the work once we figure out the best way to go about it.  Unfortunately, the builder is 2608 mi away from here and took over 3 years to do the original build - having him do the repair really isn't a feasible option.
I have been told that it is unlikely we can install longer links as when the tires compress the upper link mounts might hit a cross member in the frame.
Thanks for your kind words regarding it's coolness.  I'd consider 35s if we can get these rear wheel wells squared away.

79coyotefrg:

I don't think it's possible to move the body forward on the frame.
I will remove one of the back wheels, get the pictures you have requested and post here.

bleakhorizon:

I wish I could have the builder do the repair - see my comments to Jimbo above.
Thanks for your compliment.

DaddyHO87:

I'm not sure if it is possible to section the frame and just move that section of the frame back.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?
We think it's pretty slick too, thanks.  It's a work in progress.
I'll see about getting some more photos up.

MPA:

Thanks again for all your help on this and thanks for your kind words!  You’re the best!
We stopped doing Paintball about 11 years ago, but we do plan to use it operationally at the field once we get everything squared away.

ALL:

Does anyone think switching to leaf springs in the rear might be another option to fix this problem?

[IronClad]

<- other guy jan msged about it. Without seeing the underside its hard to say on making the links longer..  switching to leafs would be a cheap easy fix but generally if the link mounts are gonna hit if it gets pushed back, there wont be a whole lot of room ( read a few inches) for the top of the diff.

Looking at the pics id say it only needs to move back 2 maybe 3 inches at most?

[gdunkle [OP]]

IronClad:

I will take some pictures of the underside on Tuesday and post them on here along with the pictures that 79coyotefrg requested.
Yeah, as far as I can tell, if we can move it back 2 inches, we'll be GTG.

[crawlerdan]

i moved my linked runner suspension back 2.5 inches, it was super easy, i ordered longer links, i left the coils in place. there is enough wiggle room in the long coild to work. no issues yet at all

[bleakhorizon]

35's   naw .....http://www.100dollarman.com/tires.html.....  get yourself some 37's and some hummer beadlocks..... would be sick lol....

without looking at the frame and the body mounting points i couldnt comment on the frame stretch, if the right person is doing it i wouldnt have a problem, but i never liked seeing frames cut in half...

..... interesting problem for sure...

[gdunkle [OP]]

79coyotefrg & IronClad:  I apologize, I didn't get the opportunity to get the photos today as I expected.  I will post them as soon as I get them.

crawlerdan:  Sounds too good to be true!  I hope ours can be accomplished that easily!

bleakhorizon: 

I'll consider 37's and some hummer beadlocks if we can fit them under there!
It seems like a frame stretch could be pretty tricky as well.

All:

A friend of a friend is telling me:

"The swap [from coil to leaf] is out of the realm of easily doable.
The suggestions from the other guy [longer links to move the axle back, and redo the upper mount for the coils, and panhard bracket] are doable, but if its done wrong, going in a straight line might be impossible and/or under barking or acceleration, very unexpected things could happen."

Is this a good estimation or is this guy exaggerating?  I want to get this squared away, but I don't want to make it undriveable!

Thanks once again for all your help so far guys.

[jimbo74]

"The swap [from coil to leaf] is out of the realm of easily doable."

tons of people swap leafs onto coil sprung 4runners, and they do it because it is pretty easy to do.....


"The suggestions from the other guy [longer links to move the axle back, and redo the upper mount for the coils, and panhard bracket] are doable, but if its done wrong, going in a straight line might be impossible and/or under barking or acceleration, very unexpected things could happen."

how wrong is it going to get done? i mean if it is just by some kid who doesn't know anything, that is one thing, but anyone that can build a vehicle can do it right


"Is this a good estimation or is this guy exaggerating?"

sounds like that guy is exaggerating, or just flat out has no idea what he is talking about

[IronClad]

for the swap from coil to leaf the hardest part is grinding all the brackets off the axle and the 2 frame brackets and really thats just time consuming.. you're putting on 4 brackets on the frame and 2 on the axle ( minus shock mounts) so whoever told you its not easy is a tard and dont take help from them anymore =P

longer links would be easily doable and there should be enough wiggle room with the coils to stretch them back, and unless for some reason the links are more than an 1/8th-1/4 of an inch off of each other  (most factory built cars use those tolerances) then you should be in good shape really

[79coyotefrg]

Graham, I think the "longer link" idea might be the easiest option right now and would likely be a bolt in deal,  not sure when the coil buckets are mounted but its an option.

I wouldnt turn away from the "stretch the frame" option either

[TacoStewie]

longer links and add to the frame would be the best

[tryn2Crawl]

I say cut the center section and extend and then fab it back.......If they can do it to the ole toyota custom cabs and toy 2wd dually haullers, why can't you?

[AWSUMDC]

Without seeing any pictures of what may have been one to the frame of this it is hard to say what is the best ad easiest route for you.
If nothing has been done then the best and easiest way to fix this problem would be to lengthen your links, move your panhard mount on the fame and possibly move your top coil bucket.  I wouldn't mess with sectioning the frame as this would add more headache to it than it's worth.  From the couple of pictures here it looks like you only need to move it a few inche's anyway, but that is hard to tell as well from these pictures.

Anyway, you have had a bunch f good ideas thrown your way,  now the ball is in your court.  Should be a somewhat simple fix.

[gdunkle [OP]]

jimbo74, IronClad, 79coyotefrg, TacoStewie, tryn2Crawl and AWSUMDC,

I apologize for the delay in response - I didn't realize anyone had posted after my 29 June post.  Figured everyone was just waiting for the pictures.  OK, so I finally got it on the lift today.  Here are some pics:

[crawlerdan]

i added 2 inches to all my links, no issues at all, just cut, sleeve, and reweld, done

[IronClad]

oh man its freaking grand canyon back there.. just extend your links and move it back.. doesnt even look like you have to mess with your panhard either

[Early]

neat truck gdunkle

i added 2 inches to all my links, no issues at all, just cut, sleeve, and reweld, done

And you did nothing to your upper spring shock perch? what about the panhard? I can see if its just extending a couple inches possibly working but thats awesome if it actually does. Did you extend all links 2" or did you proportion the uppers and lowers longer?


looking back threw the pics the last one shows the panhard already moving forward 1-1 1/2" so bringing it back should hurt

[crawlerdan]

neat truck gdunkle

And you did nothing to your upper spring shock perch? what about the panhard? I can see if its just extending a couple inches possibly working but thats awesome if it actually does. Did you extend all links 2" or did you proportion the uppers and lowers longer?


looking back threw the pics the last one shows the panhard already moving forward 1-1 1/2" so bringing it back should hurt

i moved everything in proportion, and at the same time, made an improved panhard mount, it was perfectly parallel, i had room to go back another 2 also, my links where adjustable

[gdunkle [OP]]

I've been advised to make new, longer links with DOM tube using the original ends and I think we'll use these (http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/suspension_pieces_diy.htm) Rear Upper Control Arm Adjusters to weld into the links so we can get the length just right.  Hopefully, we can get away with just lengthening the links.  Sound OK?  I'll be sure to update when we move forward.  Thanks again for everyone's help so far.

[Bobby Hunter]

that axel is at best not square, at worse bent

[IronClad]

that axel is at best not square, at worse bent

How so ?

[gdunkle [OP]]

Hey guys, just a brief update.  Finally got around to it.  Installed new coil springs and added 2 inches to all the links.  No issues at all, just cut, sleeve, and reweld - done.  Not perfectly centered, but I think it looks much better:

BEFORE:



AFTER:



Thanks to everyone for all your advice!

Graham