Author Topic: Help! 22re Runs like Crap - Sometimes (Read 31074 times)

84Yota · « **on:** Dec 28, 2007, 08:08:18 PM »

Well this problem has plagued me for a few months, and I am now just getting a chance to check it out further. I have searched the forum but haven't found any with this same problem.

The Rig:
86 4Runner SR5, 22re, 5 speed, PS, PB, AC, CC

The Problem:
There are a series of 5 stoplights I go through everyday before jumping on the freeway. The engine starts up and idles fine (no high idle, but starts and immediately idles normally). I drive away and it runs fine for two/three of these stop lights. Around the 3rd or 4th, usually after letting off the gas to come to a stop at the next light the engine starts running like crap. The idle usually drops and it runs really rough, almost like it is running on less then 4 cylinders. It shakes the whole damn truck. It has never actually died on me, but I usually step on the gas and hold it at about 1200 (runs smooth then) for the rest of the time at that light. The light turns green and I have to rev it up quite a bit to get it to start going, and then I have to completely floor it to keep it going/try to keep up with traffic. All of these lights are on flat ground, btw. It is very sluggish and will slowly creep up in speed and RPM (flooring it the whole time). Once the engine hits 3200 it is like someone turned on a switch and the truck jumps and quickly accelerates like it should. If I shift or slow down I have to floor it again to speed up and it's a slug until 3200 and then accelerates as before. By this time I get on the freeway and by the time I get off a few exits later it is running just fine. All this happens in less than 5 minutes from when I start the truck to when I get on the freeway. The truck had a new TPS installed, valves adjusted and timing set by a good Toyota wheeler shop a few months ago. The engine/trans have about 15000 miles on them. I borrowed a known good MAF and swapped it with mine, but it still has the same problem. Acceleration may be a little better all around, but that could just be my imagination. Any ideas what's up or what I should check?

Other info:
The truck runs just fine when warm, and does this only in the few miles/minutes after starting driving when cold. It is the same after sitting overnight or after enough time sitting to cool off. Engine starts up good while cold, but sometimes takes a little longer if just sitting for an hour or so. Turning off the engine and then restarting is no problem. Oh, and it always seems a little sluggish when accelerating below 2000 rpm even when warm.

attitude of gratitude · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 28, 2007, 08:37:50 PM »

Any codes? Sounds like it's dumping fuel. Can't quite remember but ask around about the cold start injector time switch. I've aftermarket O2 sensors screw around also. Is it blowing black smoke , backfirring through the airbox?

84Yota · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 28, 2007, 09:15:30 PM »

Nope, no codes. I was thinking dumping fuel may be an issue - I'll do some looking at the cold start injector time switch tomorrow when it's light. I'm not sure if it's an aftermarket O2 sensor or not, but it looks good and no spliced wires or anything. I have not noticed any black smoke, (but I'll watch closer for it) and it's not backfiring through the airbox from what I can tell. Thanks for the suggestions!

I thought of one more thing it will do when moving down the road while in the middle of this episode. The truck will pulse/jerk/lurch forward some. Nothing violent - kinda like how it feels when going over a slightly bumpy road.

Edit: One more thing about the truck: The PO had a new CAT installed not too long ago, and I have since replaced the entire exhaust from the cat back.

4Runnerdude · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 12:31:11 AM »

check your fuel filter and fuel pressure

ROCKO · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 09:56:40 AM »

fuel pump not pulling enough fuel....a thought....good luck

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 09:58:29 AM »

Have you tried to let the motor warm up before taking off? Let it idle for 5 minutes before taking off.

Try another ECM.

84pickup · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 10:06:32 AM »

if you take the injectors out send them to www.witchhunter.com they do a really good job on injectors and give you before and after flow tests and all kinds of other tests and rebuild them as best they can if possible.

84Yota · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 10:30:42 AM »

Thanks guys. I spent about 4 hours on the board last night searching for similar problems and their solutions. I've got a few things to check. I'm going to check out the fuel filter and pressure soon, and I'll let it sit and idle for a few minutes before driving away. My bro has an ECM I may try. Thanks for the suggestions - keep um coming!

haginsauto · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 06:47:48 PM »

i remember some injector ground connections that we use to have to clean and solder. we use to check by moving around engine harness on passenger side between engine and fender well when engine was acting up. if i remember right it is were the ground wires all come together. one more thing that is more common for interment idle is a sticking egr valve. but I'm sure you already checked that.

84Yota · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 08:22:29 PM »

Alright, today I did some more diagnostic work. The fuel pump operation works fine (tested with jumper), but I don't have any pressure readings for you all - I need to figure out a good way to check it all without hacking up my lines, etc. The pressure on the feed and return line seemed pretty good just by feel and the sound of the fuel flowing through the return line sounded nice and consistent. The pump sounded good, no missing or fluctuations, but that doesn't really mean anything, it could very well sound good but not be feeding enough pressure. It looks like the previous owner changed the fuel filter at some time with a Fram, but I don't know when exactly it was done. My Cold start injector tests fine, as does my AFM, Start injector time switch, and water thermo sensor. My PCV and dashpot (VTV) valves work correctly. I also tested my plug wires and mostly they were ok, but a couple had some strange readings (maybe it was operator error - I'll double check in the light tomorrow). I was planning on replacing them soon anyway, so I will do that now along with new plugs and cap/rotor, even though the existing look fine. I also inspected the plug wires for cracks/burns/damage but there was nothing, and I ran it in the dark to see if there was any jumping - I didn't see anything. I completed all these tests with the directions and specifications of the Factory Service Manual. EGR checked fine a few months ago, but I'll check it again.

I'll do some more searching around for the best way to check the fuel pressure or maybe find someone with the special tool Toyota talks about for checking it. I'll also try just starting and idling it up to operating temperature tomorrow and see if it has the problem or what happens. Another thought I had was that I may have an air pocket in the heater core (or it's plugged) because I turn on the heater and it is hot for a few seconds and then it cools off to lukewarm - the rear heater works great though. I know air pockets in the system can cause problems, but the coolant has circulated so much and I leave the heater on hot all the time hoping it will clear itself. My coolant is nice and full and I've never got any air bubbles out of it, so I am thinking it's just a plugged core. Regardless, I will try parking uphill tomorrow and then starting it and letting it run with the cap open to see if I can get any air out. Any trick ways to check the fuel pressure would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

Oh, and thanks for the injector link - I'll eventually get a spare set cleaned and then put those in as this is my DD.

84Yota · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 08:32:33 PM »

Another bit of info about the truck - it passed CA smog a few months back with flying colors. Not sure if that's at all helpful, but I'll throw it out there.

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 09:43:30 PM »

Have you checked the Throttle positioning sensor? As for checking the fuel psi, there is a tester that plugs into the cold start injector bolt. A buddy has one, and it's a cool setup, I wish I could remember who makes it. Probably Snap-On. Go to MiniSimp's buildup page, he had a fuel pump problem earlier this summer and he describes what was going on!

84Yota · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 29, 2007, 11:27:53 PM »

Thanks, I'll check out his page, and look into the fuel tester. The TPS is new and installed to spec a few months back.

Toymin8r · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 30, 2007, 12:40:39 AM »

I had a problem similar to what you are describing on my 87 4Runner. It turned out to be corroded fuel injector wires. There is a bend in the wires after it leaves the harness just before the fuel injector plug. These are usually taped. My wires were actually corroded completely apart on 2 of the injectors. When it made contact it ran fine, when it didn't the fuel injector wouldn't fire and I got the bucking and jerking you are experiencing.

84Yota · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 30, 2007, 12:46:45 AM »

Thanks, I'll check those out too.

84Yota · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 07, 2008, 10:13:48 PM »

An update:

I went ahead and changed the fuel filter simply because it was pretty cheap, and it wouldn't hurt to do it. While changing the filter I discovered that the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator from the vacuum modulator deal on the valve cover had a big crack in it, so I replaced that too. I also looked over the FI wires and they seem fine. I was hoping the vacuum hose and filter would cure it, but I still have the problem.

I am leaning towards fuel pump like many of you have said, but the thing that confuses the hell out of me is that it only does this stumble/gutless thing in the warm up process and then it is fine. It still seems a little underpowered (compared to an 85 22re and 84 22r pickup I have driven for a while) when warm, but it runs pretty good. Why would the fuel pump cause a problem only at certain times?

A new trick it developed is I have to hold my foot slightly (not to the floor or even halfway) on the gas to get it to start and keep running. If I don't put my foot on the gas it will start for a second and then die, turn the key again, it will start for a second and then die - over and over until I put a little pressure on the pedal and then it will stay running. This is new after replacing the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose. Any ideas? Thanks!

Edit: I also was not able to find an inexpensive fuel pressure test gauge that had the right fittings to work, so I can't tell you what the pressure is like.

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 08, 2008, 03:13:39 AM »

Sounds like your TPS is out of adjustment!

DanS · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 08, 2008, 04:38:19 PM »

Quote from: cheesemaker on Jan 08, 2008, 03:13:39 AM

Sounds like your TPS is out of adjustment!

X2, used this site to help me make adjustments, good luck. DanS
www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml#TPSAdjustment

84Yota · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 08, 2008, 06:59:04 PM »

Thanks guys. Today it started up just fine, so I don't know why yesterday it decided to hard start on me.

Do you think the fact that it never idles high when cold starting has anything to do with my problem? No matter what temp it will start up and idle normally down around 700-800 - not rough or anything. My brother's 85 on the other hand when you start it up cold it idles up around 1200 for a while and then idles down as it should - this is what I understand is the correct process. I always thought the fact that mine didn't do this was odd. I used my multimeter and tested my cold start injector and time switch and coolant sensor on the thermo housing and they all tested ok - anything else I should look for in regards to this?

I'm going to test my TPS soon and get some feeler gauges to adjust it if needed. Hopefully it cures the problem, but it was brand new and professionally installed 4 months ago, so I'm not sure if this will be the problem. Never know. I'll keep everyone posted.

84Yota · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 12, 2008, 04:07:15 PM »

Well the TPS was out of adjustment and IDL-E2 read infinity at .57mm when it should have read less than 2.3k ohms. I got it all adjusted to spec, but it still has the rough idle/stumble while warming up. I am chasing down a timing light so I can make sure the timing is dead on and we'll see what that does. Would an air pocket have any effect on my warm up idle? Any other suggestions? Thanks!

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 14, 2008, 07:59:32 PM »

My truck doesn't idle up. As a matter of fact I need to turn the idle down. It idles at 1000rpm. Which is nice with the R151f tranny! I don't have to give it gas when I take off.

84Yota · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 27, 2008, 01:13:13 PM »

Well today I double checked the timing - it was dead on, bled some air out of the cooling system, and checked out my idle air control valve. I did some researching about this valve and found this thread: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=36294.msg511138#msg511138 Following their advice, I removed it from the engine and checked the resistance and it came out ok with 50 ohms. The valve inside was open about 1/4 of the way at slightly below room temp, so I then put it in the freezer to see if it would open up any more, and it barely moved after being in there a while. I then ran some jumper wires to it and the valve didn't move at all, so I am thinking I need another valve. Anyone have a good working one for cheap? Thanks!

DeMented Toys · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 04, 2008, 09:59:59 PM »

Figure it out yet? Mine has been doing the same thing... 92 EFI. I'm stumped too...

84Yota · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 04, 2008, 10:19:27 PM »

Not quite. I cleaned the vacuum ports and idle screw hole in the throttle body even though the throttle body was clean and no real results. I did have a little carbon build up on my idle screw, so I'm glad I cleaned it. I put on a new cap, rotor, plugs, and wires and that seemed to help and it is smoother in general, but still not completely fixed. I also cleaned out the PCV valve with some carb cleaner and that seemed to help for only a couple days, so I think I may just get a new one and see if that does anything to help. I am also waiting to get a used idle air control valve in the mail towards the end of this week or the beginning of next. When I get that I'll swap it on and see if it does anything to help out my situation. I'm also thinking about trying out a known good igniter and see if that fixes anything. I'll keep you updated.

84Yota · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 14, 2008, 12:38:34 AM »

I tried a new PCV and a used IACV and everything was great for a few days. Today though, back to the same old stuff. The IACV has helped with the high idle when cold, and if I clean out the pcv with carb cleaner it seems to do better for a day or two after cleaning. Any suggestions?

lucky7 · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 14, 2008, 06:34:30 AM »

mine acted like this finaly got some codes egr or igniter i changed the igniter seemed to help.

84Yota · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 14, 2008, 10:20:37 AM »

Thanks, I'll check that next weekend. I keep checking codes and don't ever get anything. I was thinking O2 sensor maybe because I've heard it usually has to be really bad to throw the light and maybe mine is not that bad yet. My brother has a good working ignitor in his truck that I am hoping I can borrow for a bit and see if it makes a difference. I think I'll completely pull the EGR and check it out too, even though I did the vacuum test to it and it worked as it should. Thanks for the suggestions!

whokrz · « **Reply #27 on:** Feb 09, 2009, 06:44:40 PM »

Did you fix it yet? Mine is acting like that.

labbe6 · « **Reply #28 on:** Feb 10, 2009, 04:37:58 PM »

Keep us posted, my 91 is doing the same thing as well. Not quite so bad that I have to floor it, but when I leave work and head up the highway it is way under powered for the first mile until it warms up then it is like I hit a turbo boost and the usual power kicks in.

84Yota · « **Reply #29 on:** Feb 10, 2009, 06:15:35 PM »

Well, I am sorry to say that it is not completely fixed, but it doesn't do it as much. Maybe because I changed where I live and don't go through the lights that soon after starting anymore?? There are still times when it is underpowered and then it all comes back. ??

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