Topic: SqWADoosh's 85 Runner Build Thread

[SqWADoosh]

40. Install dual cases (Marlin MC07 +2.28 stock crawl box)
41. Install Triple Stick (Radesigns)
42. Install dual case cross member (Sky's Manufacturing)


Well I got my duals in today with the help of my good friends zippo, helipilot, and rockcrawlinJK. Everything went smooth until it we realized that my triple stick were not going to work without major modification to my floor boards. So me and Nate got to hacking it up to make the shifter rods work. Its all in there I'm just now waiting on some finishing touches including drive shafts, Nate is going to tweak a shifter so it will clear my transmission shifter, as well as a custom made leather shifter boot for my new shifters.

[1985CRAWLER]

gonna want to flip those bolts hanging down up before wheeling it. u will also gain a little extra clearance putting the crossmember above the frame plates if possible.

[beans20]

Nice Runner!

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Got some pics of my current angle situation after putting these duals in. Am I alright using CV front and rear with these angles?

Front diff angle:



Front output angle:



Rear diff angle:





A drawing of the measurements and angles. Thanks to Helipilot for the idea. He did one for me that I scribbled on so much that I decided to re-do it and keep it clean so I could read it when it came time to speak to the two drive-shaft companies.



This is how my shifter situation is looking in my cab right now. I am considering attempting to move the cross-member up to the top side of the plates however that will cause some more clearance to be done for the rear part of the shifter assembly. I'm also wondering what it would do to my measurements I just got ironed out.

[blackdiamond]

My front driveshaft angles are not even close so I wouldn't worry about it on that end.  Mine doesn't start vibrating until 30+ mph which, at least for me, is more than enough speed with locker front and rear.  Any faster than that on the street on slick roads and I have other handing issues to deal with in 4wd.

Ideally, you don't want any angle on the non-CV end of the CV driveshaft.  I don't know what the tolerance is for it running smoothly though.  Can you check the angle between the face of the rear differential flange and a string running between the two outputs?

[zippo]

Also don't forget the t-case front output is angled up.  so the working angle is more like 10+ degrees.

[blackdiamond]

I think we actually need more information.  I did a quick sketch with the info you provided and the vertical distance between the rear diff flange and the t-case output would need to be about 5.3 inches for it to work.  I think the rear diff output will rotate a couple of degrees up (?) under torque so you need to account for that as well.

The angles in the sketch are drawn to the 0.1 degree, but for some reason they copied to the JPG rounded, not sure why.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

What more information do you need BD?

[mudmaster]

Fleet pride in Tacoma for a rear.

Let me know how they work out. I need to have my rear shortened.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Let me know how they work out. I need to have my rear shortened.

They do great work. They already did zippo's rear and are well reviewed by guys from all over the state.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Dingman asked Jesse about my angles for me. He said I need to take some string from flange to flange and measure the angle on that as well. Going to do that after work. I just heard back from Fleetpride and they already have my rear cv all done. Just a matter of when zippo has time to bring it back up to me.

[blackdiamond]

What more information do you need BD?

I added another "driveshaft" line to the picture to show what happens if the angle at the diff flange is 5 degrees instead of 0 degrees.  The result is a difference in height between the diff flange and the t-case flange of 18.8 inches @ 5 degrees vs. 15.4 inches @ 0 degrees.  Basically, unless you're flanges are 15.4 inches (vertical) apart you don't have a 0 degree angle at the diff flange.

You can't draw the entire picture unless you have measurements for two of the three triangle lengths.  Having the angle of the driveshaft, like Jesse suggested, would also work.

Make more sense now?

bd

[blackdiamond]

I just heard back from Fleetpride and they already have my rear cv all done. Just a matter of when zippo has time to bring it back up to me.

You walking to work these days?

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

I added another "driveshaft" line to the picture to show what happens if the angle at the diff flange is 5 degrees instead of 0 degrees.  The result is a difference in height between the diff flange and the t-case flange of 18.8 inches @ 5 degrees vs. 15.4 inches @ 0 degrees.  Basically, unless you're flanges are 15.4 inches (vertical) apart you don't have a 0 degree angle at the diff flange.

You can't draw the entire picture unless you have measurements for two of the three triangle lengths.  Having the angle of the driveshaft, like Jesse suggested, would also work.

Make more sense now?

bd

I'll be using string to get the shaft angle here in about 2 hours.

You walking to work these days?

Just these couple days.

[blackdiamond]

I forgot to actually add the JPG file on the previous post, it's there now.

You have probably read this already, but here is a great link for information on driveline angles for Toyotas.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml

[blackdiamond]

Did you rotate the rear differential at all yet?  I thought I remembered hearing that it was in the plan, but have not seen anything indicating that you did it over the weekend.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Did you rotate the rear differential at all yet?  I thought I remembered hearing that it was in the plan, but have not seen anything indicating that you did it over the weekend.

No I didn't because I misunderstood how this whole business works and thought that my angles were going to work as they were. There are 2* shims underneath the leaf springs that have been there since I bought the truck from the previous owner. I do have the perches available for rotating it though that is a lot of work and I'm hoping that these 4* shims will be all that is necessary.

[blackdiamond]

Here is a sketch using the dimensions that you provided via text.  I used the angle you provided on the driveshaft and it appears that there's about a 5/8 inch discrepancy between the angles and the height measurements.  It looks like the current angle between the diff flange and the driveshaft is 6.7 degrees, but would be a bit more using the height measurements.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Here is a sketch using the dimensions that you provided via text.  I used the angle you provided on the driveshaft and it appears that there's about a 5/8 inch discrepancy between the angles and the height measurements.  It looks like the current angle between the diff flange and the driveshaft is 6.7 degrees, but would be a bit more using the height measurements.

I am going to be raising the transfer output to make it an even 30 and I would go off of the height measurements because my method of finding the shaft angle is sketchy to say the least. So what does this all mean as far as what I need to do to make everything kosher?

[blackdiamond]

Here is the sketch using the heights of 19 inches and 29-5/8 inches.  If you move the back of the transfer case up it'll change that angle slightly, but shouldn't matter much for the proper angle at the other end.

The red angles are the flanges and the blue is the driveshaft to make it easier.  The current angle between the diff flange and the driveshaft appears to be 7.7 degrees.  This will go up if you raise the back of the transfer case.

Do the number look right on your end?  The rounding is driving me nuts, but the driveshaft is really 7.7 degrees to the flange and 15.5 degrees to horizontal.

[blackdiamond]

And with a height of 30 inches at the transfer case... 8.3 degrees and 16.1 degrees.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

So zippo was gracious and brought me up my finished rear CV shaft done by Fleetpride in Tacoma. I opted to have them upgrade me to .095. The driveline guy said that my u-joints all seemed solid so he just re-packed them. I'm pretty stoked on it for $199. I also decided that since I had cut into my floor I might as well get as much clearance as I can. So I opted to re-mount the cross member with it on top of the frame mounting plates. This gained me another 3/8" of ground clearance. It of course changed my angles as well. I also used a broom stick to get the angle of the drive shaft as well.

[blackdiamond]

Is the t-case output right at 30 inches?

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Is the t-case output right at 30 inches?

The top of the flange is 30". That driveshaft angle is the correct one though. zippo helped me hold the broom stick steady this time.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

So my triple sticks came with a rubber boot and a really cheap piece of aluminum with holes that didn't match up with the ones in my transmission tunnel. So I opted to modify my stock rubber to make everything work. Turned out pretty good actually.

[blackdiamond]

Have you driven it to see what vibrations you actually have in the rear driveline?  Have you been able to swap the shims and test?

There's a chance that I might be available to wheel on the 29th or 30th. 

I don't think I told you that my 4 year old noticed the  on your truck in the videos that I showed him and he recognized it from the ones that I have on my trash can.  I had so many of them at one point that I put one on each side of my trash can.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Have you driven it to see what vibrations you actually have in the rear driveline?  Have you been able to swap the shims and test?

There's a chance that I might be available to wheel on the 29th or 30th. 

I don't think I told you that my 4 year old noticed the  on your truck in the videos that I showed him and he recognized it from the ones that I have on my trash can.  I had so many of them at one point that I put one on each side of my trash can.

Yes I drove it in to work today and it is definitely vibing. I finally figured out my exact angle of rotation needed taking into account its effect on changing the drive shaft slope as it rotates. Got a hold of Roger Brown of 4Crawler and he opened my eyes to some factors I was missing. From where it sits now I need 8.5* of rotation.

[Slabzilla]

That's a sweet lookin' shifter boot mod. You'll be crawlin' instead of bouncin'. Looking forward to your next vids to see the difference in your wheelin' style.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

That's a sweet lookin' shifter boot mod. You'll be crawlin' instead of bouncin'. Looking forward to your next vids to see the difference in your wheelin' style.

Thanks man. The bouncin was never really my style. Just forced due to not having duals. I am looking forward to the change.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

So I measured for the 3rd time yesterday. This time with my new rear shaft actually on the vehicle rather than doing the broomstick method. My number for the amount of rotation needed is 9.5* from where it stands now. Taking into account my current 2* shim that puts me at a final total of 11.5*. This is far too large of a shim to run in my opinion.