Topic: Best oil or additive for high milage engine

[Osage]

Been doing some research on oil and additives, the additive being Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate. Wondering what others are using for high mileage 20R/22R engines, or any engines for that fact that really work.

What's your oil or additive of choice?

[kneedownnate]

None, I just use a good quality oil and call it good.  If I'm going to waste money on an additive, I may as well just buy a good synthetic oil 

[Rocksurfer]

Not true, for one unless you are already running synthetic don't start run conventional oils, but you may want to consider one of the high end (quality) high mileage formulas. They have the same additives that others like STP or any of the sealer additives that help to swell worn seals and prevent leaks. Don't bother with synthetic blends either they are just a waste of $.

[emsvitil]

I use diesel oil in my 22RE for the additives.

[IronClad]

Chevron Delo 400.  Thats what i run in everything i own.

[kneedownnate]

Your logic is flawed rocksurfer.  Don't run synthetic if you weren't before?  At what point do you begin using synthetic since you have to start with dyno initially for breakin?  I didn't begin running synthetic in my last engine until it was well over 300,000 miles and had led a very hard life, and I saw no downsides and only advantages.  I run redline but have a very sound reason for doing so, one which many will likely not agree with.

I personally (and this is merely my opinion) view oil additives the same as I view octane booster.  Just buy the right stuff to begin with and quit messing around. 

Matt, delo doesn't have some of the same properties as regular oil, right?  I know you can get away with running diesel specific oils in bikes with wet clutches cause it is missing something that'll cause a wet clutch to slip if using non-motorcycle oil.

To the op, bottom line, you're asking a question on a forum and will find many different theories and opinions.  Some people do a quick read or get their info elsewhere and will believe it's the gospel.  I'd strongly suggest doing some off-bb research and go with that, or just look at the vast options available in the store and buy whichever one looks to suit your needs best 

[Osage [OP]]

Thanks for your input so far men.

" If I'm going to waste money on an additive, I may as well just buy a good synthetic oil "                -  Your entitled to that opinion but Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate or ZDDP is not some snake oil sells pitch nor is a product that is unproven. All racing oils use it and it is one of the major break through's in engioe lubricants in a long time. Good " on the shelf " motor oils used it until Big Brother said it was killing cat. convertors and causing emissions problems so like many good products they said it had to go.

I used the ol'thick lucas for a while but it can and has stopped up the oil pickup screen on some smaller engines ( chevy 2.2 to be exact ) so I'm feeling the board out for any products that work, that I may have missed, i've got a used 77 model donor 20r that i'm installing in my 80 4x4 and need that baby to live happy and healthy while I rebuild my original 20R that came in my truck, on my budget that may be a year before it's done. God Bless

[kneedownnate]

  and most the available synthetics run that or an equivelant compound.  A short list I just found; Castrol Syntec 20W-50, Valvoline VR1, Royal Purple XPR, Red Line, Mobil 1 15W-50 and Amsoil Synthetic Premium Protection

The stuff I run in my bike is around $10 a quart, luckily synthetics for cars can be had for $25-30 for a 5 quart jug, vs about half that for a conventional.  Not sure how much the extra the additive is, but the benefits of synthetic are why I buy it.  Again, you seem pretty set on your decision to use an additive so I'm only trying to offer the alternative view 

[Sparkplug]

Ive persoanlly seen synthetic start leaking when it was put in a conv oil engine. You can definitely tell syn 5w is much much thinner than conv oil.

I run Castrol conv oil. If you do the math, a engine rebuild is like 300 bucks on a 20 or 22r. Changing the oil 50 times, when its 10-20 more a gallon equates to 500-1000 more bucks that your throwing at your engine through its life. Some ppl close to 2k more. Some people love the peace of mind from having a tad cleaner oil though.

How many people have actually seen oil related engine failures, when oil levels were properly maintained?? Regardless of the brand or syn vs conv? Yes conv does gum stuff up more, but if you change it at the right times, its very moot point to argue.

Oil is Oil IMO. Change it every 3-5k, or 10k if your run syn and wanna push oil that long. Everyone is gonna ahve their opinion, and its very unlikely your gonna change someone elses. In the car world, oil vs oil, is live chev vs ford

[kneedownnate]

I have, but it comes with the territory of turning wrenches for a living.  And you hit the nail on the head, it's all about peace of mind for some.  I personally like the fact that a heavier synthetic will hit the already too dry top end of an r series engine well before a thinner dyno would, plus I like to rev pretty high for these engines, typically for too long and with not enough load 

[IronClad]

Matt, delo doesn't have some of the same properties as regular oil, right?  I know you can get away with running diesel specific oils in bikes with wet clutches cause it is missing something that'll cause a wet clutch to slip if using non-motorcycle oil.

Its pretty much the same but its a little higher in the ZDDP department than most oils IIRC. I havent looked at the specs in a good while so i dont know them offhand. But I run it as a personal preference, I've noticed that the engines seem to use less oil and run a bit smoother. This ofcourse is all seat of the pants knowledge , A buddies truck even stopped ticking/knocking when he started running it but im not saying its a cure for it

[Osage [OP]]

" Again, you seem pretty set on your decision to use an additive so I'm only trying to offer the alternative view  "

What you see my friend is desperation lol! I wanted one of these little trucks since A guy took me off road in his when I was like 12-13, I'm 34 now. Bought my current truck last summer with a smashed cab for $500, fixed it myself, then the engine went south. bought a used truck (2wd) for then engine just so I could drive it while I built the original 20R that's in it. So i'm just wanting to keep it going until I get the other engine done. I'm grateful for your input, thank you.

[Rocksurfer]

Your logic is flawed rocksurfer.  Don't run synthetic if you weren't before?  At what point do you begin using synthetic since you have to start with dyno initially for breakin?  I didn't begin running synthetic in my last engine until it was well over 300,000 miles and had led a very hard life, and I saw no downsides and only advantages.  I run redline but have a very sound reason for doing so, one which many will likely not agree with.

It may seemed flawed for the layman but after a significant amount of training and actually understanding the differences between a synthetic oil and a conventional you may understand that a synthetic oil is developed with every molecule being the exact same size and much smaller than a conventional oil, unlike conventional which is as it comes with varying molecule size. Also there is a conditioning process of seals and bearings which develops what is called memory, just like when you are breaking in a new car or engine. Though it may not hurt once a seal develops its memory (seal properties) there is significant proof that switching does carry some risk. Synthetic oils flow much quicker and move through areas much more easily than conventional so if a conventional oil which has heavier molecules may continue to support a weak seal that a Synthetic will pass through creating a leak. This is also due to synthetic oils are very high in detergent so a seal that is currently not leaking only due the heavier conventional oil will get cleaned out and start leaking.

I personally (and this is merely my opinion) view oil additives the same as I view octane booster.  Just buy the right stuff to begin with and quit messing around. 

I concur with you here, except with an older motor that has some seal seapage, the high mileage oils carry chemicals and properties (heavier molecules) that will 1 inhibit oil passage through the seal and also slightly swell the seal it comes in contact with. If it is a serious leak nothing will help replacement is the only answer. Regular care and maintenance would likely keep that from occurring in the 1st place though.

Matt, delo doesn't have some of the same properties as regular oil, right?  I know you can get away with running diesel specific oils in bikes with wet clutches cause it is missing something that'll cause a wet clutch to slip if using non-motorcycle oil.

Delo and the like have specific additives for diesel engines due to the carbon build up that occurs, it will have no benefit at  all for a gas motor but it will not hurt it either.

To the op, bottom line, you're asking a question on a forum and will find many different theories and opinions.  Some people do a quick read or get their info elsewhere and will believe it's the gospel.  I'd strongly suggest doing some off-bb research and go with that, or just look at the vast options available in the store and buy whichever one looks to suit your needs best 

I've managed Valvoline Quicklube, Express Lube and also ran 2 different oil change businesses, have had extensive training in the field, I also know what info given to people is truth and what is sales BS. I'm sure everyone is aware that the 3,000 mile warranty is just that a warranty given by the shop and has nothing really to do with when your oil should be changed. Even though I may have been able to make more money for the people I worked for or for myself if asked I was always honest with when it should be done depending on many factors.

[rubiconrunnerneville]

stay away from penzoil and Qstate and any brand oil using wax based crap it will clog any oil passage way have seen a few that came into the engine machine shop that were toast after one race that had penzoil in it when it cooled down the wax covered all oil passage ways causing starvation. rocksurfer is pretty damn close with his advise I have over 12 years as an ASE cert. tech and have played around with different oils and additives

[Rocksurfer]

Castrol is the only oil I use even when I could get my oil for free from Valvoline. They used to be a small independent company that bowed to nobody, of course they ended up being bought out but the formula remains the same. No paraffin wax based oil from them. If I'm not mistaken Penzoil did go away from a paraffin base but I wonder how they did this since their reserves are still from the same wells.

[907yota]

lucas oil stabilizer works good,i replaced 1 quart with it when i do my oil change, seems to run smooth..er, i got 86 22rte 250,xxx miles