new to marlin crawler

[yota13]

hey every one....i have a 1985 toyota pickup with a 3 inch lift and 33inch Super Swampers TSL SX...other wise stock for now...i don't no what to do first lockers or transfer case any suggestions would be great

[1980yota]

I vote lockers first. You will be suprised what you can get up stock with lockers. You can put lower gears in but if you have a lifted tire your just going to spin really slow in the air. That being said your clutch will thank you if you install tcase gears.

[yota13]

thats what i was shooting for i would like to get lockers front and rear and i was looking at the spartan locker but im not sure....what do you think......i only have about 600 to spend on them

[Goldrush]

Spartan is a good lunch box locker. its stronger than the lockrite. With 33s you should be good with those.

[Seeds]

ditto...lockers first. Best improvement for your money for sure
My vote ARB, save up the cash. Did a lot of good wheelin open because I was saving for my ARB's. Too many various issues with all different kinds of other lockers. I drive mine as a DD too. Its fun open, dont break stuff as easily, it also helps out on the skills department but you take the strap and the winch much more often. And some trails you just need lockers period. Avoid them for now. Sink some good cash into a good quality locker

Just my opinion.

Welcome!

[Seeds]

do gears at the same time. Depending. I suggest 4.88 unless you are gonna go over 35's. then 5.29. Use Yukons. Set up your thirds nice and you'll never have to mess with them again. They'll last a long time.

Again..my opinion..everyone has one.

[yota13]

im planing on getting 4.88s i found a couple yotas at the junk yards around me that have yotas with stock 4.88 thirds

[yota13]

and thanks for your opinions guys 

[4RunnerChevy]

im planing on getting 4.88s i found a couple yotas at the junk yards around me that have yotas with stock 4.88 thirds

There is something about stock Toyota 3rds.  Don't remember.  Its either you can't put other gears in them or lockers, or something like that.  Ask around, or maybe someone will chime in.

[fordh8r]

There is something about stock Toyota 3rds.  Don't remember.  Its either you can't put other gears in them or lockers, or something like that.  Ask around, or maybe someone will chime in.

  The stock Toyota 4.88's are not interchangeable with any other gears. Not 100% sure but do I believe the carrier can be replaced if another gear set is to be installed. That would probably have to be confirmed by someone who has made that attempt.

[yota13]

from what i under stand you can swap the carriers but you can't swap ring gears ect....but im going to make sure it works at the junk yard

[Snowtoy]

If you are new to wheeling don't get lockers right now, outfit your rig with solid F/R bumpers/rock sliders and learn to wheel it first.  While lockers give you extra traction they also want to push you in a straight line, which often pushes you off the line you want to take.  Learning how to pick the correct line and get your rig set up for it is hard enough, being pushed all over the trail by auto lockers just makes it that much harder for a newbie.

I would opt for the the dual cases, it is by far the best upgrage you can do, and it really should be the first upgrade after body armor, recovery gear, etc.  Being able to crawl along with the engine just above idle makes it so much easier, especially for a beginner, not to metion saving the drivetrain from shockloads from having to hit obstacles at speed.

[yota13]

that's a very good point...i cant afford duel cases right now but i can swap out my low range gears that i have now and swap in the 4.70 gear set and save for duels...but will that give me better traction and would i be able to run the Rubicon without lockers 

[fordh8r]

The lower gears won't give you more traction just more control at low speeds without having to smash through stuff. But with open diffs it can be a challenge. I've seen guys get through with open diffs on the Rubicon...but like I said, it will be more challenging. If you haven't done much wheeling before this I would suggest spending sometime doing some wheeling before running the 'Con Open/Open.  

[yota13]

what did you do first fordh8r lockers or cases

[fordh8r]

Come to think of it, I think I had done them both at the same time.    But I did wheel my truck fully stock for quite a while before I did any of that...including a lift!  I sure worked my little truck in those days. 

If you read my build thread you'll get some Idea of what I did. 

[yota13]

ok cool i will do that

[yota13]

i have a question about this bracket on the front axle....what will happen if i remove it?

[fordh8r]

Which one?

[yota13]

is the pic not there

[fordh8r]

Sorry, on my phome. Will check in a bit and let you know

[yota13]

Ok ....sorry i snagged the pic from you build up for a reference

[87hillbillyoter]

no, you dont need that bracket. if you're going to run highsteer it will get in the way. its just a traction bar mount. and if you're planning on trussing your axle then it will need to be removed obviously.

[fordh8r]

Oh, That bracket!    It won't get in the way of anything except for an aftermarket axle truss if you decide to add one. If you don't have X-over steering you can leave it connected to keep from having any weird brake steer issues when you hit the brakes and it does help keep the steering drag link from taking all the stress when wheeling...often why some people break J-arms if they've removed the torque rod that is connected there. 

[Seeds]

Still, even after all this, I would still vote lockers. Get an arb or any other demand style. I drove open for many years thinking else. Lockers were my last and I went through detroits, a Trd posi, and an arb and I'll go arb hands down! while you do learn to take better lines it is strictly due to the fact that some lines arent possible open. You do get through the majority of stuff open and there is less chance of breakage, there are those times when you can't put all paws on the ground when you need to. Then you have options. Strap, winch, hammer through. Any set of good tight notches or obstacles that require articulation will stop you quickly. You can just stuff rocks under the spinning tire. There are ways to get by. If you like running open just don't use it. If you have good articulation then you can put your tires on the ground, but with just a quick spring lift, no hysteer and 33's stuffed in there, I still vote the arb.
Drive open for a while and see what you think you will need based on your experiences.

[fordh8r]

   Hmmm...thinking back now...I do remember I had a locker in the front for sometime before I did my duals and rear locker. I was running stock gears and 31's with a 4 inch lift. When the rear springs got damaged I did my 63's and then it was sometime later that I did my duals, rear locker, gears and x-over steering. I am running stock low gears in both cases, BTW.    It was cool having an open diff for everyday driving and having the locker when the hubs were locked in.  


  If you'll notice, I have built my truck with a relatively low budget (not necessarily by choice, I might add   ) Most everything on my truck I either bought used or traded for something or fabricated myself  . The only mod parts I paid full price for as new  was my Dual case 21 spline adaptor, twin stick, rear driveline, front spring hanger and shackles, tires, Brake lines, knuckle ball kit, front u-bolt flip kit and pitman arm...pretty much everything else was cheap or as free as possible via some bartering.  

[Snowtoy]

that's a very good point...i cant afford duel cases right now but i can swap out my low range gears that i have now and swap in the 4.70 gear set and save for duels...but will that give me better traction and would i be able to run the Rubicon without lockers

Yes, you can run the Rubicon w/o lockers, people were running it long before lockers became a mainstay of the wheeling world.  However, if I had to choose to run it with either a locked rig or dual cases/single case w/4.7 gears I would opt for the one with the lower transfer case gearing.  You can always stack rocks, get a strapped/winched to get through a tough situation, being able to control speed to a snails pace just can't be beat.  I wheeled open diffs for about 13yrs before going with ARB's, then another 4 before adding dual cases.  The last 4yrs I think I gave engaged the dual cases more than the ARB's.  I look at dual cases and lockers as tools that compliment the driver's skills, i.e., to be used when needed.  I usually run open and single case, then if things get a little tricky try lower gearing or engage a locker.   


If you are new to wheeling, while your rig in skilled hands could be taken through the Rubicon, however,  if you are new to the hobby, it is really outside your ability at this time.  Granted you could lock it up , run dual cases, slap on some 40" tires and wheel like a rock star, a lot of newbies do it, however once something goes wrong, they are quickly in over their heads.  With the High Lakes basically in your back yard, you have the perfect playground learn the basics of wheeling with an open diff'd rig and not get into too much trouble.  With 33's and open diffs the trail will still be challenging for a new driver, you will still have to pick the right line, stack a rock or two, and need a spotter to help you through some sections.  These are skills you will always need, even after you lock the diffs, add dual cases, and run larger tires.  It has been about 4yrs since I was last up there, so if it is like most trails it is likely gotten more torn up in some sections, or like the trail into Morris maybe easier then it used to be. 

If you are new I would try to get in a few hundred hours on the trails in the High Lakes this fall (usually gets snow in Nov.) and early next summer.  Then upgrade to lockers wheel it some more to learn the characteristics(especially if auto lockers), and then maybe run the Rubicon next year during the Round-up.  This will also give you time to up money for dual cases or 4.7 gears before running the Rubicon. 

If you keep an eye out for used parts, you can usually find dual cases for around $500, same with locked and geared diffs.   Also, given the relatively low resale value of built rigs, you might be able to find a built rig for what it will cost you to outfit yours with lockers, dual cases, high steer, 35's or 37's, etc., you can usually find them for around $5k, not that much more than what a clean relatively stock '85 is worth.

[Tofudude]

i think no matter how crazy or how mild of an offroader you are, you still want a locker first.

[yota13]

i think im going to get 4.7  and a rear locker if i can afford it....thanks for the help ever one....
im wondering if i should get trail gear or marlin transfer case gears....i really don't want to do business with trail gear cause there  is from china but its cheaper what do you guys think...

[Dingman.]

I really agree with everything snowtoy has said in this thread. 

If i did it again i think i would put duals in first.  That seems like it took the longest for me to save up to do, and i can't get over how much i love them.