Topic: CA Prop 19 Failed to pass!

[NorCalToy]

Prop 19 failed!

Anyone who dosent know what it was: It would have made it legal to grow a small amount of weed and posess up to an ounce and make weed taxable etc.


Personally Im glad it failed. Anyone else> thoughts feelings comments? post up!


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pot-20101103-1,0,5135592.story


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)

[fj-rankenstein]

i would have to agree that i am glad it failed as well.. and im not even from the usa..  i have lost friends to pot and other "claimed to be low risk" drugs..  half of my family (unkles and such) have pot addictions and have divided my family in two over their bad decisions.  also, the friends that i used to know that are now regular pot smokers are very different people and have really lost a lot of potential to further better themselves as humans..  i dont even know who these people are anymore..
 i am quite put off by pot use only because i have first hand experience of how crappy it can turn a normal situation into..

this whole "legalize it" crap just annoys me every time i see it..

[Cheesemaker]

I'm with ya.  Ever since Oregon voted in Medical Marijuana, there have been a shitload of people that all of a sudden have ailments that Pot is the only thing that alleviates the "pain/symptoms."  I've known people that we the biggest stoners years ago, and had to quit to keep a good job, and now they brag that they can smoke it anytime they want.

There was a news reporter in Portland, OR., that went in to see how easy it is to get a Medical Marijuana card, and in less than 15 minutes she had one, and somebody offering her "medical" grade weed on the street.   

[abnormaltoy]

But, look at how many more lives alcohol has ruined.

Would you be willing to have another "Prohibition" era against alcohol?

I don't smoke anymore, but...the money we spend trying to stop it and putting/keeping people in jail kills me.

[jrock]

But, look at how many more lives alcohol has ruined.

Would you be willing to have another "Prohibition" era against alcohol?

I don't smoke anymore, but...the money we spend trying to stop it and putting/keeping people in jail kills me.

I recently heard a study concluded that alcohol is the most decremental drug in society as a whole. Crack or Meth was most decremental on an individual basis.

I was for Prop 19. I don't smoke, never have. If it was regulated the same as alcohol I was hoping it would bring revenues, stop street dealers and unlicensed growers from selling. As far as people smoking and ruining their lives, that's up to them. We can't hold everyone's hand!

[madhunt]

there was to much grey area for that law to pass, if it did most of the counties in california more than likly been dry counties like they do in the south and back east with alcahol. if they want a law like this they better put more than a jionts worth of time in writing a good one.

[yota4x4sc]

i dont even smoke  but i think it should have passed... alcohol is a way more harsh drug anyway

[gnob]

i can go both ways on the law.

those of you that dont like weed or have never smoked fine.  that your opinion and youre entitled to it.

however you dont get "REEFER MADNESS" from burning herb.

if you are a loser on weed, its because youre a freakin' loser off weed.

i think weed should be legal for grown ups to smoke, just like booze is.

i do not however, think that the government should be entitled to any of the money.
i mean why, just so they can continue to squander it like they do every other penny they STEAL from us.

one day people will grow up and realize that we are all responsible only for our selves and the decisions that we, as individuals make.

uncle sam needs to get lost with all the hand holding and let darwin and natural selection sort it out for us, like in real life.


oh ya, smoke weed!

[fj-rankenstein]

i think there are a lot of bad theories regarding what the legalization of pot will actually do for society..  the people that are pushing for leagalized pot feel for some reason that its going to bring down our taxes and give us some sort of money relief..   i dont know if they have actually read the stats but the usa is billions and trillions and quadzillions of dollars in debt..    the government will gladly accept money by taxing the crap out of something to make a profit but the truth is that what we owe is always going to go up.. never down. it might help it slow down briefly but it will never offset the money being spent over what is being made from legalized pot..  i dont know if you guys are taxed on your cigarrettes in the Usa but in canada they are taxed quite a bit and the money the government makes off of it doesnt pay back nothing..  my taxes go up like everyone elses..  now take a much much smaller percentage of people who feel the dope they buy is going to save us from higher taxes and i can guarantee you that it wouldnt even make a small hickup in how much we get taxed anyways..

i do completely agree that alcohol is the worst drug out there as far as being abused but thats because its the most easily gotten...  when you can buy booze at the 7-11 down the street and be back home within 5 minutes that has to tell you something..   people will always abuse something a lot more when they can get it more easily..   now take this same demographic of people that dont buy dope because its against the law or that cant get it easy and now make it legal...  what you have is a bunch of people that are smoking pot while driving, or doing some other activity that endangers me as well and i dont want to be a statistic because some guy was high while operating their vehicle and used bad judgment and cut me off, or my wife off in traffic and causing an accident or worse..

the other big thing that annoys me is that smoke dopers always say that its more healthy than smoking cigarettes...  WHAT??    you are still breathing in a carcinogen... and depending on the grade of the dope you smoke there potentilly can be thousands  more chemicals in that dope that you arent even aware of...  breathing in any burning smoking substance is obviously not good for you.. because of this,  i wish they would tax the heck out of cigarettes even more..  it drives up health care costs and its the number one preventable  disease maker.. how would smoking dope be anything less..

[runr-meech]

  very debatable subject. 

[RP-Zuki]

Gnob - well said.

The money wasted fighting this "crime" is outstanding. Cannabis is easier for kids to get then alcohol. Drug dealers do not ID kids. Cannabis is one of the most researched and understood substances known to man. It is also one of the safest and most therapeutic. This has no effect on employment. Medical or recreational does not give you protection in the work place. I, as an employer, can fire you for coming to work drunk on legal booze, just like I would be able to fire you for coming to work stoned on legal weed.

Like many, I am worried about young people getting into trouble with marijuana and other drugs. The best solution, however, is honest and effective drug education. One survey after another indicates that teenagers have better access than most adults to marijuana—and often other drugs as well—and find it easier to buy marijuana than alcohol. Legalizing marijuana may make it easier for adults to buy marijuana, but it can hardly make it any more accessible to young people. I'd much rather invest in effective education than ineffective arrest and incarceration.

We need to allow research. Cannabis has not only palliative properties but curative as well. We need to follow this up. We need to study this plant. Harvard has published studies linking it to reducing/stopping tumor growth. Why are we not following this up? We have recently discovered neuroprotective properties in this plant (U.S. Gov has a patent on this). Studies have shown teens who binge drink AND smoke suffer less brain damage then teens who only drink. The cannabinoids found within the plant play many roles inside the body. Did you know you have a endocannabinoid system? This is what the cannabis cannabinoids bind to, and help regulate. Cannabis use is related to lower rates in ALS, Cancer, and many other diseases. I can't even begin to describe all the medicinal uses the cannabis plant offers.

This plant truly has tons of benefits. It's outstanding. Prohibition has failed. More people smoke cannabis now, then before. It's more readily available then before. It's better then before. We understand the plant better then before. Arresting 700,000 people for simple possession needs to stop. The war on drugs is a sham.

Even if we acknowledge that stopping drug use is a justifiable social goal, how does the financial cost of our war on drugs appear in light of the other challenges we face?

[RP-Zuki]

Investigators from the nonpartisan Institute of Medicine (IOM) released their findings, "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," on March 17, 1999. The White House Office of National Drug Control commissioned the 267-page report shortly after voters in California passed the Compassionate Use Act of 1996, which legalized the medical use of cannabis under state law.

The IOM report affirmed that marijuana and its constituents possessed numerous therapeutic properties, including the ability to control pain, nausea, and anxiety, and to stimulate appetite.

"[T]here are patients with debilitating symptoms for whom smoked marijuana might provide relief," the study concluded. "Except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications."

except for the harms associated with smoking...

In other words, smoking cannabis is as dangerous as smoking lettuce? So the "chemicals" in cannabis have no effect on the harm, according to the IOM.

Therefore, if the patients ingests cannabis by other means (vaporization, tincture, edible) then any and all harms associating with cannabis are dropped, according to the IOM.

[gnob]

RP-Zuki,
nice.


i still love how people always blame drugs and booze when its always STUPIDITY'S fault.

the person made a stupid decision drinking and driving or smoking and driving.  because the person is stupid, not because the drugs made them stupid.

[runr-meech]

very well said Zuk! Zuk for governer.

[RP-Zuki]

cancer:

http://www.nowpublic.com/thc_marijuana_helps_cure_cancer_says_harvard_study

^^ Harvard study.

Another:

Active Component Of Marijuana Has Anti-Cancer Effects, Study Suggests
ScienceDaily (Apr. 9, 2009) —

Guillermo Velasco and colleagues, at Complutense University, Spain, have provided evidence that suggests that cannabinoids such as the main active component of marijuana (THC) have anticancer effects on human brain cancer cells.

In the study, THC was found to induce the death of various human brain cancer cell lines and primary cultured human brain cancer cells by a process known as autophagy.

Consistent with the in vitro data, administration of THC to mice with human tumors decreased tumor growth and induced the tumor cells to undergo autophagy. As analysis of tumors from two patients with recurrent glioblastoma multiforme (a highly aggressive brain tumor) receiving intracranial THC administration showed signs of autophagy, the authors suggest that cannabinoid administration may provide a new approach to targeting human cancers.

Cannabinoid action induces autophagy-mediated cell death through stimulation of ER stress in human glioma cells

More info:



Cannabis smoke contains many of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoke, including greater concentrations of certain aromatic hydrocarbons such as benzopyrene, prompting fears that chronic marijuana inhalation may be a risk factor for tobacco-use related cancers. However, marijuana smoke also contains cannabinoids such as THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) and CBD (cannabidiol), which are non-carcinogenic and demonstrate anti-cancer properties in vivo and in vitro. By contrast, nicotine promotes the development of cancer cells and their blood supply. In addition, cannabinoids stimulate other biological activities and responses that may mitigate the carcinogenic effects of smoke, such as down-regulating the inflammatory arm of the immune system that is responsible for producing potentially carcinogenic free radicals (unstable atoms that are believed to accelerate the progression of cancer).

Cannabis smoke – unlike tobacco smoke – has not been definitively linked to cancer in humans, including those cancers associated with tobacco use. However, certain cellular abnormalities in the lungs have been identified more frequently in long-term smokers of cannabis compared to non-smokers. Chronic exposure to cannabis smoke has also been associated with the development of pre-cancerous changes in bronchial and epithelium cells in similar rates to tobacco smokers. Cellular abnormalities were most present in individuals who smoked both tobacco and marijuana, implying that cannabis and tobacco smoke may have an additive adverse effect on airway tissue. The results suggest that long-term exposure to cannabis smoke, particularly when combined with tobacco smoking, is capable of damaging the bronchial system in ways that could one day lead to respiratory cancers. However, to date, no epidemiologic studies of cannabis-only smokers have yet to reveal such a finding. Larger, better-controlled studies are warranted.

Cannabis consumers who desire the rapid onset of action associated with inhalation but who are concerned about the potential harms of noxious smoke can dramatically cut down on their intake of carcinogenic compounds by engaging in vaporization rather than smoking. Cannabis vaporization limits respiratory toxins by heating cannabis to a temperature where cannabinoid vapors form (typically around 180-190 degrees Celsius), but below the point of combustion where noxious smoke and associated toxins (i.e., carcinogenic hydrocarbons) are produced (near 230 degrees Celsius). Because vaporization can deliver doses of cannabinoids while reducing the users intake of carcinogenic smoke, it is considered to be a preferred and likely safer method of cannabis administration than smoking marijuana cigarettes or inhaling from a water pipe. According to the findings of a recent clinical trial, use of the Volcano vaporizing device delivered set doses of THC to subjects in a reproducible manner while suppressing the intake of respiratory toxins.

Long-term marijuana use is far less harmful than long-term alcohol use.

There is little evidence, however, that long-term cannabis use causes permanent cognitive impairment, nor is there is any clear cause and effect relationship to explain the psychosocial associations.

There are some physical health risks, particularly the possibility of damage to the airways in cannabis smokers. Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for ‘recreational’ purposes, cannabis could be rated to be a relatively safe drug.

Source: Iversen, Leslie. Current Opinion in Pharmacology. Volume 5, Issue 1, February 2005, Pages 69-72. Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis. University of Oxford, Department of Pharmacology.

There has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, and recent studies find that marijuana use is not associated with any type of cancer. The same cannot be said for alcohol, which has been found to contribute to a variety of long-term negative health effects, including cancers and cirrhosis of the liver.

It could be interesting to note in the chart the difference between what people usually consider the most likely serious harms associated with marijuana and alcohol. While there has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, there are clearly thousands of deaths by liver disease directly associated with alcohol – 12,360 in 2003, to be exact. [See, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm . Note also on this page that “alcoholic liver disease” is a separate category from “alcohol-induced deaths, excluding accidents and homicides.” Thus the 20,687 cited in #2 (as “deaths from alcohol consumption” could easily be 33,047.]


Just to add some actual facts... I am surprised how many off roaders are ok with the government telling us what we can breathe, and how often. I'd think if anything, you guys would be FOR smaller government and more state rights. Hmm...

[Sparkplug]

Wow, does anyone remember that alcohol used to be under prohibition? Does anyone know the real reasons marijuana was really made illegal? If not, there is a documentary on history channel tonight. I suggest you watch it. I strongly disagree that if marijuana became legal, more peolpe would smoke. I used to re a real big smoker, not so much now. But trust me when I say less peolpe smoke pot nowadays. If it were legalzied, sale to minors qwould drop, unless you believe drug dealers are carding kids. This is crazy talk, look how much crime was solved, and money made when they legalized alcohol, why do you think it would be any different? For the peoplen who say we would just grow it ourselves. I speak for me and tons of others when I say I would pay taxes and buy ti from a store. You dont brew your own beer do you? And its cheaper easier and faster to do that? And breathing your wedling smoke is worse for you then marijuana smoke. But we arent gonna stop welding are we?

[Sparkplug]

Also right now, with marijuana being illegal, its helping fund meth and oxycontin. Hard to explain how, but if you were in the loop of drugs, you would understand

[gnob]

the only thing to understand about oxycontin is that the REAL doctors who prescribe that are getting HUGE kickbacks for doing so.

i know several people who have DIED from these LEGALLY  prescribed DRUGS.

[Sparkplug]

This isnt about oxycontin or any other drugs, this is about marijuana, I was just stating that right now,with it being illegal, its helping kids and adults get those other drugs. Marijuana smoke is bad for you, yes, common sense tells you inhaling heated air into your lungs, is not good for you. Now then, we all do thing everyday that arent good for us, the big mac i had last night wasnt exactly best thing for my body. BUT, I am a grown man, it is MY body, I will put WHATEVER the hell I want into my body. That is for no one else to say. How bad it is for you is a moot point, thats up to the person using it to decide. i dont see how anyone thinks it wouldnt make money? Oakland taxes their marijuana, and l;ast I checked, theyu were raking in dough, and people were GLADLY paying the taxes.

[BUDDERS]

I have seen both sides of this subject.  

For my first year of college, I lived in Weed, CA and you guessed it - the name says it all.  I am not proud of the things I did back then and haven't touched the stuff since the beginning of '95 - when I noticed my memory was getting worse.  I ditched all my pot smoking friends and enrolled in a different school to get away from that crowd and straighten my life out.

While I worked at Toyota, one of my coworkers was smoking weed all the time and coming into work high - putting everyone's safety at stake.  He caused several minor accidents at the dealer by bumping into other cars, poles and shop equipment.  Every time the manager sent him down for drug testing (company policy) and he turned up clean (he used some sort of body flush stuff).

I guess my point is, I don't care if someone has a drug problem, but when it becomes my problem, or if their drug use puts mine or my family's safety in jeopardy I am against it.  Since someones drug use will eventually puts someone's safety in jeopardy, I am definitely against Prop 19 and glad it didn't pass.

[Sparkplug]

http://norml.com/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4525 for those that dont know, marijuana has ALREADY been decriminalized. You can no longer be puit in jail for under an oz. An over an oz is no longer a felony. Therefore prison is out of the question. Possession of any amount is a misdemeanor.

[Sparkplug]

This is getting bad, blaming pot for some dude bumping into cars? WTF? Does anyone posting even smoke? Do they remember when they did? A normal pot smoker, sint going to get stumbly and fall over, when he smokes. LMAO, Everyone I know that smokes, you cant even tell when they are stoned. I bet all the people that on the other side of debate, have lots of frineds that smoke pot, and they dont even know it. I learned and built everything I know about trucks, when I was high. I am in the boat that feels in the right hands, and right mind marijuana can make u a more srtful person, can actually expand you imagfination, make you think out of the box.

[yota4x4sc]

 :bull crap:

[gnob]

This is getting bad, WTF? Does anyone posting even smoke? 

[gnob]

on most subjects, i am not like this, but

if you dont, or have never smoked, youre not really entitled to an opinion on this

[Sparkplug]

i not so sure on that, as long as you have an open mid, and give VALID reasons why it should still be illegal, then go ahead and post. I dont care if you smoke or not, just dont post up saying weed makes u bump into stuff. Thats the dumbest thign ive ever heard. Theres a reason they havent been able to make a test to tell if you are high, because like 99 percent of its affects are inside your head. For a first time smoker, or someone just starting, they gonna get messed up on it, just like when you used to be able to get lit off 2 beers. Bet some drinkers on here could pound a 6 pack, weld a full exo, and drive to walmart perfectly fine, not saying this is right, just giving an example, I would rather have someone stoned in my work, then someone hungover from the night before, still reaking of booze, that only got 2 hrs sleep, and aint worth a .

[BUDDERS]

This is getting bad, blaming pot for some dude bumping into cars? WTF? Does anyone posting even smoke? Do they remember when they did? A normal pot smoker, sint going to get stumbly and fall over, when he smokes. LMAO, Everyone I know that smokes, you cant even tell when they are stoned. I bet all the people that on the other side of debate, have lots of frineds that smoke pot, and they dont even know it. I learned and built everything I know about trucks, when I was high. I am in the boat that feels in the right hands, and right mind marijuana can make u a more srtful person, can actually expand you imagfination, make you think out of the box.

Sparkplug, I do remember when I smoked and I never said he was stumbly and fell over.  I still know people that smoke pot and I can tell if there stoned.  They are way more alert and use better common sense.  This same guy that I worked with jumped his quad in the dunes and hit someone else while he was stoned.  I was there and saw him smoke the weed, and saw him hit my friend with his quad.  He also rolled his quad doing stupid stuff that day too.  

If you can learn things after smoking weed, good for you - I couldn't.  I was doing wake 'n bakes for a semester before going to class and I went from a straight A student in high school to a strait D student my first semester in college.  I know it can expand your "Imagfination"   but I think people's safety is a greater goal.

BTW, what is a srtful person?

[Sparkplug]

For those that say people changed when they started smokin. Who cares, its their life, if they are happy who the hell are you to say otherwise? As long as their actions arent directly affecting you, which I dont see how them smoking pot could, well then, i dont believe its anyones business.

[Sparkplug]

As has been stated before, if you are a lazy unmotivated person high, you are going to be the same when you are not high. I find it to be the exact opposite with what i have observed. People that ONLY smoke pot, dont drink or other drugs regularly. Are MORE motivated when stoned. About to do a t chain, o man gotta get stoned first Its the party people, that drink, smoke, thizz, drop oxy,a llt hat jumbo that I think you are referring to.

[Sparkplug]

Im shocked at this also, I thought for sure it was gonna pass, all my buds that sell pot were sooooo scared about losing their business. Everyone I talked to, smoker or non smoker, wanted it legalized. Most just to stop hearing about it, with it illegal, and now it failing, I see it getting even bigger now. Right now its a fad, like beanie babies, if you give in to it, it will die out, and become normal like alcohol.