TC Questions

[DrNut]

Well i posted this question on the PBB and didnt get quite the answers i was looking for so i will try here...

I have a 85' Yota with manuel 5spd trans. I will be doing my dual case set up very soon. I have found 2 cases that will work. 1 is an 83' and the other is a Turbo 87', each is a $100.00. Now i only want to buy 1 which one would be better and why? Is the adapter the same price? Will the 87' mount up to the 85' easily? Well i hope somebody can shed alittle light my way... Thankx in advance...

[trt2]

I'd like to help but must admit, I don't know the answer.  I do know the turbo has spline issues... could be a bonus, could be an issue.    

take care...

[Jason_Young]

Turbo 23 spline, other is 21spline like the one in your 85. Is your 85 injected? if so you should have a W 56 tranny. If so It should have a top shifting case.

I would avoid the 83 case also (they are loud).

Here is what I would do. I would call MARLIN Buy from him another Top shifting case good used (135.00  last year is what I paid/1 year warrenty) If you have a carbed 85 you will have a g 52 tranny, with a forward shifting case. SO YOU WILL NEED A TOP SHIFTING CASE ANYWAY>>

If you have limited t case experience you are not going to enjoy switching the shift rods to make a top shifter...

To find out what tranny you have , lift the hood, look at the plate on the fire wall,there is a bunch of number, it will say @##$^^&%$%^&G 52 or (*&%$@@@^^$#@ W56
Later

[BigMike]

I would avoid the 83 case also (they are loud).

Just for a heads up-

(note: these are for all 4 cylinder, manual trans)
1979-1983 Carb: Top Shift, Loud Gears.
1984-1988 Carb: Forward Shift, Quiet Gears.
1985-1988 EFI: Top Shift, Quiet Gears, #1 Desired 21-spline.
1986-1987 Turbo EFI: Forward Shift, Quiet Gears, only 23-spline gear drive t/case produced.
1989-1995 EFI: Forward Shift, Quiet Gears.

So as you can see more forward shift t/cases were produced, which kinda sucks...
Regards,
BigMike

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

am I missing some thing what is the dif between top and fwrd

[Paul_Elbisser]

Top shift, the stickshift is in the top of the T case. This makes it easy to turn this case into a crawl box.

Forward shift, there is a diferent shift fork that puts the shifter in the tailhousing of the transmision. These can be adapted to a top shifter, and Marlin sells the parts. I have been running this way since I got mine many years ago. (#285) When you convert it you could also put a short throw shifter in since you need to buy the parts anyway. He didn't have that when I did mine, but I saw the new pieces when I was there last month, Nice!

[BigMike]

am I missing some thing what is the dif between top and fwrd

Forward (remote):
http://www.snakeracing.com.au/images/forwardshift.jpg

Top (direct):
http://www.snakeracing.com.au/images/topshift.jpg

Thanks snake-
BigMike

[BigMike]

I Just realized that no one has solved your problem... So i will.

I have found 2 cases that will work. 1 is an 83' and the other is a Turbo 87', each is a $100.00. Now i only want to buy 1 which one would be better and why?

Hands down the Turbo 87' is better. Don't tell who ever you are buying it from, but if it is a real turbo t/case, then it will have a 23-spline input that alone is around $235 from the dealer.
If the size is not obvious enough, then just count the # of splines on the input; 21-splines for the 83' and 23-splines for the Turbo. If the Turbo does not have 23-spline, then he is lieing and it is just a 84+ t/case.
Even so, in June of 84, Toyota redesigned the gears and made them run a bit quieter, so the 87' -- even if it is not a true Turbo -- is still the better case to buy because it features a quiter gear design.

Is the adapter the same price?

Yes, but only for the kit: 21- or 23-spline are both the same price.
Now on a Unit, P/N# MC07-U23 for instance, we have to supply that special 23-spline input gear, so the price goes up, in this case $150 more (we sell the input new from Toyota for $165 but offer it for $150 in the unit :monkey: ).

Will the 87' mount up to the 85' easily?

It is solely dependant on the style of t/case that you are running in the rear (the one running the drive lines). No matter the application / year / style / engine / transmission / I dont care / the rear t/case MUST be a top shifter period! because our adapter plate is designed to be so short, we can not use a forward shifting t/case behind it, only a top shift t/case.

So if your 85' T/case is from an EFI truck, then it is top shifting and can be used behind anything.

Now listen, if that 87' is a Turbo, then you can not input it into your transmission unless it too is a Turbo transmission (R151F). Soooooooo, assuming you have a 21-spline transmission, you can run a 21-spline input in the crawl box, then a 23-spline coupler in the adapter plate, and use the 23-spline input from the Turbo t/case in your rear t/case. (Try to stay with me, Remember that the turbo is a forward shift t/case, so, if you want to use it as the rear t/case and attach the drive lines to it, then you will have to convert it to a top shift t/case (we have a kit for this). Otherwise, you can interchange inputs > put the 85's 21-spline in the Turbo 87's case, and put the Turbo 87's 23-spline input in the 85' case, they are interchangeable and a direct swap/bolt in exchange.)

So trying to keep the train on the tracks, here is what you would have if your buy the Turbo 87' and it is a real 23-spline Turbo t/case:
(21-spline transmission) > (21-spline crawl box input) > (23-spline crawl box adapter coupler) > (23-spline rear t/case input).
So that's a: 21-21-23-23 setup -- And we offer this as a kit too -- it's called a Heavy Duty 21-spline Crawler and no one really knows about it because I only had it up on the webpage for about a month and never really merged it into the dualcase section.

This post is really long and I forgot where I am now.
Lets make things simple again and reply to me with what ever questions remain that I have not covered yet.

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
BigMike

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

Just for a heads up-

(note: these are for all 4 cylinder, manual trans)
1979-1983 Carb: Top Shift, Loud Gears.

If you buy 4.7:1 MC gears will they still be loud

[BigMike]

If you buy 4.7:1 MC gears will they still be loud

Our Gears use the same factory Toyota helical angle as the stock gears do, so under a load or a coast, the noise is excately the same as stock gears.
The only difference is when you alter the drivetrain from coast to drive and back to coast. They might create a slight chatter between drive and coast forces.

For as long as I have worked here, I have not recieved one complaint from the gears being noisy. That's pretty sweet  :monkey:

Regards,
BigMike

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

Even if they are noisy tire hum wil take care of that How hard is it to convert from forward to top shifting

[BigMike]

You will have to tear down about 60% of the t/case, swap two rods, 1 fork, and add a second fork (rather 'slider' or 'shift head').

It would take someone the first time about 30mins, it would take me about 4-5mins. Yes, time me.

[all4runners]

Can I put the 4.70 gear kit in my forward-shift T-case, with a 1984 G52 tranny, without converting to a top-shift?

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

I dont see why not!

[BigMike]

I just happened to see this, so heres for a late reply

Can I put the 4.70 gear kit in my forward-shift T-case, with a 1984 G52 tranny, without converting to a top-shift?

Since your Transmission is designed to use a forward shift t/case, yes by all means you may use a forward shifting style with it. If you are infering to if our gear set requires a top shift case only, then no this is a misconception, the gear set works in either top or forward shifting cases. Their is nothing relating the gear set to the shifting style of choice.

Now a thought on the side, one could place a Top shifting t/case behind a transmission that was intended for a Forward shifting transfercase. You would just have to make a small block plate to bolt atop the transmission where the forward shift lever would normally be placed. We dont want any dirt or water getting in there!
But this in rather impracticle because your trucks Cab is already setup with how your shifters are situated from the factory to begin with. So if I were to take a Carburated 84-88 truck that normally has a forward shifting t/case, and remove the t/case replacing it with any top shifting t/case, then I would have to either lenghten the shifter hole of the Cab to accomidate for the top shifting levers new position in my cab or cut a completely new hole. I believe the differences are about 4-5".

Regards,
BigMike