Author Topic: pinion angle problem on my 88 4runner SAS project (Read 13791 times)

zr2runner · « **on:** May 02, 2010, 07:06:29 PM »

whats the best way to correct this?... should i just put shims under the springs to move the angle? i never plan to put it in 4wd on the street..

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2010, 08:06:10 PM »

shims will work jus make sure ur still able turn properly

OOPS · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2010, 08:34:34 PM »

Couple of questions;

Single or dual cases?

How much drop on your front hanger?

How long are your shackles?

How much lift on your springs?

CV or single u-joint on the t-case end of your front d-shaft?

zr2runner · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2010, 09:31:49 PM »

single case... 2in drop hanger... marlin 2in lift shackles... 4in marlin springs and its the factory drive shaft that i re-tubed to make it long enough...

hilux-1983 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2010, 09:41:22 PM »

You need to take a look at my thread. I'm sure it will answer your questions. If you have any more questions, give me a hollar. http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=65878.msg840554#msg840554

motoracer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2010, 10:53:10 AM »

is it a ifs drive shaft? if so you can do some mods to the cv to make the drive shaft drop down more. stock ifs driveshaft only drop down to 25 degrees . i did a sas and i had to put shims under my springs ,modify my cv joint on my driveshaft and make it 3 inchs longer.there is forms on here to show how to do this.http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:58:08 AM »

ditch the lift shackles for some banana shackles

hilux-1983 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2010, 12:03:50 PM »

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on May 03, 2010, 11:58:08 AM

ditch the lift shackles for some banana shackles

What will that do? I'm interested and listening too...

Joey88RUNR · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2010, 12:10:23 PM »

Quote from: zr2runner on May 02, 2010, 09:31:49 PM

single case... 2in drop hanger... marlin 2in lift shackles... 4in marlin springs and its the factory drive shaft that i re-tubed to make it long enough...

You need to clearance your cv joint on the tcase side. Then think about adding dual cases in your future, then you will have to extend your drive line, It never ends...

zr2runner · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2010, 01:41:53 PM »

i dont plan on ever doing dual cases... just want to stick with the 4.7s... i am going to get some shims today and see what that does for me

-Jake- · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:23:31 PM »

Quote from: zr2runner on May 03, 2010, 01:41:53 PM

i dont plan on ever doing dual cases... just want to stick with the 4.7s... i am going to get some shims today and see what that does for me

If you shim it enough to make up that difference your caster will be so outta whack. You need to clearance your drive-shaft looks like you're using one out of an IFS rig. also if you get it shimmed just enough to get it attached when the front droops it'll bind...

OOPS · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:55:27 PM »

Years ago when I did my SAS I had a problem with the d-shaft binding. I called Jon at All-Pro and this is what he told me to do.

1. Clarence the CV for more droop, here is how to do it. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/

2. Drill the shackles to 4.5 on center. I did this and it moved my pinion up about 8-9 degrees and I only lost about .5 of lift. I ran this way for about 2.5 years with out a problem. Doing this also puts the axle caster in about the stock location.

I am not a big fan of shims but if that is what you want to do get steel shims. The aluminum ones have a tendency to break and get spit out on the trail.

Do not say never on the dual cases, I said the same thing and a year and a half later I went d-cases and I now also have a Hi-pinion third in the front.

zr2runner · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:00:39 PM »

i went to a local offroad shop here and they told me all i need to do is get a drive shaft with more clearance in the ends and need about 7in of slip... said they would build me one for around $300 and would 100% guarantee that it would take care of my problem... thats without putting any shims under the axle... i have also been told to turn the drive shaft around and try using it that way... i held it in place and it looks like it would bolt up... i have to change the flange or drill the old one out in order to do that though...

OOPS · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:45:05 PM »

I will tell you right now that 7" of slip will not be enough. Over the years I have ran 14", 12", and 11". A little secret, the IFS single joint on the front d-shaft has the most angle of any stock D-shaft. Also by doing the CV mod I gave you the link to I was able to get 38-40 degrees out of my IFS CV. If you want an awesome, heavy duty front or rear d-shaft check out Dave'z Offroad Performance http://www.davezoffroadperformance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296

weakyota91 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2010, 08:10:38 PM »

this is a very expensive route but i had the EXACT same problem when i finished my sas and drove with no front driveline for 6 months before i bought a 42 degree 1 ton c.v. "agricultural" joint cost 520 dollars wich makes for a very expensive front driveline but not going with a high pinion 3rd member would be the 1st thing i would do if i ever do another sas agian

Joey88RUNR · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2010, 09:50:11 PM »

Do you understand what the dual cases will do for your angle?

zr2runner · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:36:54 AM »

dual cases are not an option for me... i do not want duals... i think i am going to go with davez offroad shaft... i am going to contact them and get some info

axled89 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:59:06 AM »

just wandering why your not looking at doing duals?? is there a reason behind the madness.

Dingman. · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:05:49 AM »

If its a money issue than its understandable, but duals are nice!

Maybe he doesn't want to cut his floor board. idk

Duals would help a lot, so would a high pinion front diff, but your going to need a driveshaft that can handle that big of an angle.. Call up dave and get a driveline made.

axled89 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:22:01 AM »

i would like to have a hp. cause my 6" lift and duals make a steep angle. but i payed tom woods a nice coin for mine front shaft. and that hp would deliver a better angle. or dropping my rig down a bit.

hilux-1983 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2010, 12:22:24 PM »

Quote from: zr2runner on May 04, 2010, 10:36:54 AM

dual cases are not an option for me... i do not want duals... i think i am going to go with davez offroad shaft... i am going to contact them and get some info

Before you spend a grip of $$$, make sure and come by my place. You can borrow my front shaft and test it out to see what you think. If you like it we can make one for you.

zr2runner · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:23:55 PM »

i am 100% happy with the 4.7 single case... just have no intent on putting another one in..

hilux-1983 (Rob) i am going to check your set up out and see if it will work with what i have... i just want to do it right the first time and have no issues with binding and not enough slip... i have had many drive shaft probs on my 82 and dont want a repeat... so spending the $$ to get it right would be ok with me

YotaNate · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:42:25 PM »

Paying close attention to this one, seems I am in the EXACT same boat with my SAS, And I also do not want to go dual cases. I plan on going with a built single case with 4.7's and the twin stick setup.

Nate

OOPS · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2010, 05:20:16 PM »

Quote from: YotaNate on May 04, 2010, 01:42:25 PM

Paying close attention to this one, seems I am in the EXACT same boat with my SAS, And I also do not want to go dual cases. I plan on going with a built single case with 4.7's and the twin stick setup.

Nate

Your shackle angle sucks!!!! Did you move the front hanger forward?

YotaNate · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2010, 05:27:12 PM »

It's Marlins SAS kit with the 4" springs up front, Hanger is mounted flush. For the record the truck hasn't even been rolled out of the garage yet so I'm pretty sure it will settle quite a bit and push the shackles back in the process. My driveshaft is hanging there at it's current max angle, which is obviously not gonna cut it!

Nate

Link to my build so far......

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=70165.0

OOPS · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2010, 06:57:41 PM »

Clearence the CV or get rid of it and run a single joint top and bottom. Drill the shackles to 4.5 " on center.

DoveGray85 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:12:58 PM »

Here's a pic showing my drive line angle with 4" Marlin springs, dual cases, and an hp third. My shackle angle looks about like yours, near vertical. This is on an 85, so it's not an SAS. If you drill your shackles, won't that steepen your caster angle? That might lead you down the road of having to rotate your knuckle balls.

Dingman. · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:20:47 PM »

4" sas kit..

low pinion DS angle.

High pinion DS angle..

Dingman. · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:21:53 PM »

With that. ALL driveline vibrations are GONE in the front end, completely worth it IMO..

WisconsinYota · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:22:29 PM »

I agree with clearancing the CV or running a single joint top and bottom. I just completed a SAS on an '87 pickup and my pinion angle looks much like the original poster's. I'm running ~6* caster right now, according to an angle finder on the top of my Marlin high-steer arm. I just ordered 3* weld on shims to hopefully bring it to the 3* total caster ballpark, but I doubt that will bring the pinion up high enough to run a stock CV IFS front shaft. I plan on clearancing the shaft and seeing where that gets me.

So I guess the question of the day is, even with the recommended 3-4* caster (which seems to be on the low end of the scale), does the pinion angle really improve all that much?

zr2runner [OP]

zr2runner [OP]

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