Revolver or semi-auto?

[brainlessfool]

I like the .40 cal.  My issue is they are wide and uncomfortable to carry, and it would be harder to conceal if a person wants to.

SO, IT'S GOT GREAT STOPPING POWER BUTT MITE BE A TAD UNCUMMFY (dang caps lock)

to carry while backpacking or hiking.

as is my 629.

and I still and always will like a revolver for out in dirty places.

so Naty, whats it going to be? double acc. revolver or auto. lets start with that. then half of us will shut up!  










PAGE 2 IS MINE!

[brainlessfool]

TO be honest my glock 20 is the biggest they make and I have no problems concealing it with just a button up shirt.

How big is ya? Hulk Hogan sided? 

See Nater is just a bit bigger that an Umpalumpa and mite need some thing a bit smaller.

[Plekto]

I can't believe it's gone down to debating which is better.. Oh, wait, this IS MC forum... yeah, guess it's normal...      

The .40/10mm ARE better though as ballistics tests favor speed over mass, which is clearly wrong for subsonic rounds.  That big slow .45-70 for instance, hits like a Buick and does a lot more damage than most supposedly better .350+ caliber rounds.  The trade off, of course, is range and a trajectory like a catapult, but with a revolver or semi-auto, you're not shooting beyond 50-100 ft anyways.  So big and heavy is the way to go.  

(pulls out 15 year old or so ballistics charts)
.357 Magnum.      1176FPS 180gr  10.80 effective power.
.40 1050fps 195gr  11.76 effective power
10mm 1212fps 200gr 13.38 effective power
.45 ACP 1080fps  200gr. 13.95 effective power.
.44 Magnum 1275fps 210gr  16.76 effective power.  Yes, .44 hits a hell of a lot harder than most anything else.  Recoil can be a problem for many people, though.

.357 will work but it's not normally available in a semi, so you're stuck with .40/10mm there.

Note: 9mm/.38 special are about 8-9 on this scale.  A 30-06 round, by comparison is a bit over 20.  Handgun rounds are really a backup next to a proper rifle, so go as large as you can manage in any case)  For large bears, they recommend roughly a 15-20 on this scale as a minimum.  Yes, there is a noticeable power gap -  bears are really tough and pistol/revolver rounds are a bit of a last resort to begin with.  It's also why they recommend FMJ rounds to help with penetration to compensate a bit.  The more you penetrate, the more chances you'll hit something vital.

edit - now, I know someone will likely post a picture of a shot in some ballistic gelatin but the thing is that once it's below that ~1200 fps sped of sound in flesh, it's not going to work like those pictures.  Add in a bit of range, a 4 inch or shorter barrel(likely to keep weight down) plus the animal's hide, and right there it's going through the bear at 1000fps or slower - and maybe half that if it hits a bone on the way in.  It's effectively a small fast spear at that point - make a hole and hope to hit something, because a big cavity of destroyed tissue like you see with 2000fps+ rifle rounds isn't ever going to happen.

[brainlessfool]

Awww come on Nate, frist step...to auto or not to auto.
then chose cal.

[crawlerdad]

Has anyone looked at the Judge? 45/410 You can load it with 3 rounds 45, 3 rounds 410 buckshot and stager them so they go 45, 410.... That should stop any critter in its tracks. I like the Colt Commander. 45 auto.

[kneedownnate]

I think I first saw the judge in 92 or 93 and wanted one so bad, they're just dang cool!

See Nater is just a bit bigger that an Umpalumpa and mite need some thing a bit smaller.

  True!

Awww come on Nate, frist step...to auto or not to auto.  then choose cal.

I've pretty much made up my mind    I pretty much made up my mind many years ago, just need to get off my butt and buy a RUGER GP100 .357 mag    If I lived in a different state I'd buy a taurus titanium .41 mag, but we just can't get them here    I've also seen a younger blacktail buck shot with a .357 and it passed all the way through.  I've no idea what bullet he was using cause he wasn't with my friend and I.  But deer have a very different density than bears and kitties.

My issue lies not so much in choosing the caliber of a semi auto.  There are just so many damn choices for them that it can be a pita trying to sort through all the options.  What may surprise somebody, something they would have found out had they removed their head from their rear and stopped senselessly arguing, is that the 10mm is actually my favorite semi auto round.  Unless they come out with a whole bunch more options tomorrow though, I won't be buying one.  I won't buy a glock unless I find one dirt cheap, I can't afford a kimber or dan wesson, and there just aren't too many other options for them. 

If I were to buy a semi auto it'd most likely be a .40 cal, just not so much for a hiking partner. 

[Rockcrawlintoy]

my dad has a gp100 its a fun to shoot. i would get one but i want something small to conceal.

[brainlessfool]

I love how my post gets deleted.

mine too! 

[kneedownnate]

my dad has a gp100 its a fun to shoot. i would get one but i want something small to conceal.

Good to know    It fits my tiny hand very well too!

I love how my post gets deleted.

Read the edit to the first post and you'll understand.  I've said in some of my threads that I won't go for rabbit trailing or continuous arguing, and I allowed it for too long here and even contributed many of my own in trying to help you see your mistake.  You weren't seeing that you made a mistake and wouldn't accept that I was asking you to fix it and throw up something more useful than the back and forth drivel and opinion you were contributing.  You were taking everything personal and actling like a butthurt little baby.  Add something of use and relevance to the thread, grow up and get over it, or kindly go away.  And I didn't delete all your posts, I left up 1 or 2 that were relevant 

mine too! 

Sorry chief, but they were casualties of the cleanup since they were responses to the negative posts.

[crawlerdad]

Go to a range and rent whatever looks good and see what you like. I did that and found that there are a lot of little things that bug me. Guns I wanted to buy were out of the question.

[kneedownnate]

I'd love to do that and may at some point, but the local range that does that has a very limited range of rental guns available. 

[junya92toy]

Have you ever shot a springfield xd? I was looking at them but never shot one. Wondering how they are.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

they are nice my friend has an xdm-40

[crawlerdad]

I would like to try the Beretta PX4. You can change the grip to fit your hand. It has other nice options.

[kneedownnate]

Have you ever shot a springfield xd? I was looking at them but never shot one. Wondering how they are.

Not yet, but it is in the top 5 of my semi auto choices.  And I think it and the m&p both have changeable back straps to fit different sized hands.

[brainlessfool]

 I find when shooting an auto that it will "climb" ok on the range butt not so hot if mister kitty is coming at ya. ok your right every one I do like revolvers   better than autos, sorry  I'm old school .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Good to know    It fits my tiny hand very well too!

I'm thinking you don't go to Burger King much? 

[junya92toy]

IM thinking I might have to pick up a springfield xd45, If i could afford it, id get a kimber warrior.

[Coastie]

I carry the smith and wesson 340pd on a daily basis it is easy to conceal has has the take down power you need. If i go to areas i know could be a little crazy i carry my smith and wesson 1911pd.  I like the pd guns because they are lighter than the traditional weapons plus shoot vary well.  When i go camping i carry the smith and wesson 329pd and a rem 870 top folder just in case i have some larger visitors. 

[kneedownnate]

I like that 329pd 

[DeMented Toys]

I would go with a 1911 from whatever manufacturer that you like, in .45 APC. 

I have been a firearms and tactics instructor (military, law enforcement. civilian CCW) for 8 years.  Everyone is going to have their own opinon and usually they will recommend whatever they are used to carrying or shooting.  Regardless of function, reliability or capacity, people will usually carry what their dad carried or what they grew up shooting. 

I carry a Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP.  I do alot of hiking and camping and, like you, just want to feel protected from man or beast.  I like that it is semi-auto, single action, and I can reload it quickly.  If a wild animaql is charging me I will definately need more than one magazine because chances of stopping it with the first shot is very low.  It will be moving quickly and adreneline will be maxed out!  So I like to have that extra mag on hand to reload just in case.  The 1911 is single action and has proven very reliable (for a long freakin time)!  Plus /45 ammo is relatively common and you can get it even in remote locations..  Well unless its sold out (thanks obamba).

With todays semi-autos, reliability is not even an issue although I have seen some cheap kel-tec type pieces of crap come apart on the range.  Can't go wrong with the 1911 though.   

[Coastie]

yeah,  any 1911 should be good especially the springfield GI....41 cal and bigger for me in mts.   i feel a 45 would not stop a thick skin animal.....

[Coastie]

love to have that series 70

[kneedownnate]

My question is mainly, which do you prefer to carry and why?  Or, if you don't have either and are looking to get one, like me, which would you rather get and why?  Then I guess the next question is which caliber and why?

Again, the main reason I started this thread 

As for me, hours have been cut back and I'm going further and further under, so the chances of me getting a new gun are uber slim.  For that matter, I'm seriously considering selling my sportarized swedish mauser.

[kneedownnate]

Deleted what was reply #52 because it was egging on another member in what appeared to be an attempt to start an argument or pissing match.  I don't care if you don't like it, just read my first post.  I'm tired of having to clean up my threads because people want to pick on others or start arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.  Keep it reasonably close to on topic or get lost 

[yjay]

o.k.
Anyways, Ruger now makes an LCR (Light Compact Revolver) in .357. I wish I would have known that it was coming out. I would have waited instead of buying the .38+p.
Check it out. Great buy.
Don't believe the list price. Just a tad over 4 hun.

[kneedownnate]

If I were to go ruger it'd be a gp100 hands down.  Don't personally care for the tiny revolvers myself.

[Coastie]

Just remember you never own to many guns..........i say buy one of everything......

[kneedownnate]

Just remember you never own to many guns..........i say buy one of everything......

As for me, hours have been cut back and I'm going further and further under, so the chances of me getting a new gun are uber slim. 

Some of us have less money than brains. 

[red]

i have a springfield xdm .40 cal and love it. yes the backstrap is interchangeable (3 sizes included with the gun). simple, reliable semi-auto and the .40cal is a great round, compromise between the 9mm and .45 cal. not quite as much knock down power as the .45 does, and also doesnt just go right through a man sized target like a 9mm does (highly ineffective, when you have to put 8+ rounds in the chest to get the guy to stop, not a good option). the gun is also not that expensive, in the 600-750 price range brand new. the grip is at the angle of a 1911 grip, not the much steeper foreward angle that the glock has.

[peacesells]

Buying a new gun is like findin a new woman- except the paperwork comes at the beginning of the relationship...

Have you checked out a ruger sp101? The stock grip is terrible and makes the gun feel too small and hard to hold onto(very deturring), but if your gun store is cool they will switch the grip for a hogue and let you try it. They look, feel, and shoot great! Ive had mine for a few years and has seen lots of hip miles. Over 1000 rounds, not one single misfire! They are built like a tank, ive dropped it several times, its been dragged through the dirt, submerged a dozens times or so, and at the end of every trip I shoot 10 rounds through it just to kinda wonder "what if" and it has never misfired... Been dirty enough to where it grinds the first round or 2, or was a bit sticky, but it always shoots dead on!

Im a revolver guy through and through, mostly due to reliability issues. Capacity is not a problem with me, as im not a spray happy shooter. To some people, more ammo means you dont have to aim anymore. Ammo is expensive and aiming is cheap. Youre also less likely to loose count with 5 rounds than with 14. Speedloaders work great when you practice with them. The fastest shooter in the world uses a 45 revolver and moon clips and blows the auto guys away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DpCellB_UQ

In defense against humans a .357 is overkill IMO. About the only thing better about a .357 over a 38 is the shot sounds like a cannon and throws some good sparks out of a snubby, which can make the other guy their pants. Other than that, they will poke clean through someone and keep on goin unless you catch some good bones. your follow up shot takes about twice as long and is less accurate due to the added recoil. I shoot .38+p and have a rediculously quick follow up shot and plenty of power to get it done. Its all preference of course, but I feel better with less chance of injuring someone im not shooting at. Now if its winter time and the criminals in your area are all body builders that wear 6 layers of denim under a 3in thick gortex jacket, .357 away or aim for the head. At the end of the day, 99% of your potential for a successful defense has nothing to do with the gun your shooting, its how good you shoot it.

Like someone mentioned earlier, if youve ever shot a .357 out of a 12oz revolver, its nothin nice. Most women cant hold onto the gun after 1 or 2 shots, you might as well have a derringer... In fact, a .357 derringer weighs 24oz haha. Same problem comes into play with the larger caliber smith ultra lites. I wanted the smith 329pd .44 real real bad, the store wanted to sell it to me REALLY really bad, but they made the mistake of letting me shoot it.... NO WAY! The guns attack was damn near as bad as an animal attack. I hear they are better with rubber grips, but DAMN! Another downfall to some of the liteweight revolvers is what ammo you can shoot. Alot of the higher grain-higher pressure rounds are a no go in lite wheel guns due to the thin cylinder walls and different metals. I have also heard they loosen up after a few hundred rounds, and not in a good way.

http://www.gunblast.com/SW329PD.htm

On another note, Everyone used to give me because I would carry a 22 on backpacking trips in bear country. They carry .357s and 44s. Due to the fact that there has never been a successful defense against a charging brown bear with a handgun, I dont think carrying a handgun specifically for bears is worth the effort. I carry bear mace or if im really worried about it, a 12ga with 3 1/2 slugs. Cats are scary.. I switch to 200  grain cor bon solids in my 357, but you usually dont see cat attacks coming... Best chance is to get a few rounds in em while theyre attackin you or your friend, but they are smart and generally dont pick a fight they cant win. 90% of the reason I carry a gun outside of the city is still because of humans, 5% kitties, 2.5% because it makes me feel like a big man, The other 2.5% is in case I get hungry