Topic: The Health Care Reform Bill

[germ]

Hey everyone, Just found a link to the actual text of the 2074pg Healthcare reform bill being pushed by Sen. Reid. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but so far it's a pretty boring read. From what I've seen, it is full of vauge referances, that allow them to make changes at will. I need to read it some more. I thought some might be interested to see what the government has in store for us.


http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/111909_ReidBill.pdf

Erik

[germ [OP]]

Hmmm this is going to be interesting...

6 SEC. 3112. REVISION TO THE MEDICARE IMPROVEMENT
7 FUND.
8 Section 1898(b)(1)(A) of the Social Security Act (42
9 U.S.C. 1395iii) is amended by striking
10 ‘‘$22,290,000,000’’ and inserting ‘‘$0’’.

As I'm reading this, it becomes very apparent that "the Secretary" (whoever that is) is going to have the power to set prices for  what will and will not be paid to providers for care, what tests and services will be covered, and how long certain types of care will be allowed.  Seems like an awful lot of power for someone who is appointed, and not elected.

Erik

[Stocker]

I will never believe that government involvement -- in anything -- will result in decreased costs or increased efficiency. Among other things, it was recently reported that the new bill would create thirteen new Federal agencies. Think about that for a moment! 


On a somewhat related note, most of us have seen the new recommendations for fewer mammograms for women. Now, they are also advising fewer PAP smears. Am I being paranoid, or does anyone else think this is the tip of the iceberg -- the earliest beginnings of rationed health care? 

[kneedownnate]

I see a lot of this stemming from people's total ignorance of Canada's government controlled health care system, which the media hasn't helped with either.  People are too dumb or lazy to research things on their own, so when I news agency takes 3 seconds to repeatedly say something like "Canada has free health care, why shouldn't we?", then that's all people will latch onto.  What most aren't going to realize (until it's too late!) is that you don't just walk into a Canadian doctor's office, say "I'm sick" and get treated right away.  From what I've read in several different articles over the years is that you wait in looooong lines, finally get to see a doctor and say "I'm sick", and they say, "ok, how sick are you?".  The issue is then quickly analyzed and you're given your return date to be treated based on case load and urgency, which I've heard can easily be 2 weeks.

Now add to that being told you need to go to the doctorb less often for routine checkups and it makes me    Then add to that being forced to have health care no matter what and it almost makes me wanna go live in a hut in the woods   

[92ToyRunner]

I had to go to DMV here in CA today for a title transfer. I think DMV is a great example of how health care will be under Governments control.  You have to wait in line for an hour just to get a number to wait at least another hour till your number is called.  Then your told you don't have the right paper work, then they are not sure and have to ask someone else how to do their job. By the time you done you have wasted half a day over something that should take 15 minutes.

Congress and the President say that they can make health care better for everyone with less money? How? Has government ever made anything cheaper? Both social security and Medicare are horribly expensive and provide poor service for the money. With those being the benchmark for government insurance and health care, why would anyone want more?  

[kneedownnate]

Why would anyone want more?  Because the vast majority of the population are completely ignorant, not to mention far too many are too dumb to see the light, no matter how bright it is!

[fj-rankenstein]

I see a lot of this stemming from people's total ignorance of Canada's government controlled health care system, which the media hasn't helped with either.  People are too dumb or lazy to research things on their own, so when I news agency takes 3 seconds to repeatedly say something like "Canada has free health care, why shouldn't we?", then that's all people will latch onto.  What most aren't going to realize (until it's too late!) is that you don't just walk into a Canadian doctor's office, say "I'm sick" and get treated right away.  From what I've read in several different articles over the years is that you wait in looooong lines, finally get to see a doctor and say "I'm sick", and they say, "ok, how sick are you?".  The issue is then quickly analyzed and you're given your return date to be treated based on case load and urgency, which I've heard can easily be 2 weeks.

Now add to that being told you need to go to the doctorb less often for routine checkups and it makes me    Then add to that being forced to have health care no matter what and it almost makes me wanna go live in a hut in the woods   

actually dude, it pretty much is as easy just to go down to the corner medi clinic and say "im sick" and usually within 20 minutes you go and get treated..  time of day and depending on when the flu season hits wait times go up and down but overall there are enough health clinics and doctors offices around here to give a person a choice of where might be busy or not..  this whole h1n1 thing has got a lot of people up in arms and the clinics and doctors offices have been quite busy, but this is the case everywhere around the world..  personally, i have never waited for any longer than an hour for medical attention or advise but its for never anything that serious..  when i crushed my foot at work i was rushed right through, had xrays, and was in and out within the hour.. when i hurt my back, it was the same thing..  for any serious sprains, cuts, etc, i have always been attended to right away...  and its always been free....  you have to pay for small things like tensor bandages  (3 bucks) and if you need crutches you have to pay for those (25 bucks) but if you go to the right places still you can get crutches on loan if you cant afford the 25 bucks..  i have friends that have broke their backs, been seriously injured, have had family and friends that had to have heart and lung transplants and its always been free... no questions asked. heck, i had my ears pinned back when i was younger due to hearing issues and it was free.. last summer when i injured my back at work really badly, my physio, my doctors appointments and everything medical i had to go through was all free.. i cant see how this isnt  a good thing.. a lot of other countries operate on the same basis. i cant see why the U.S. is so backwards on this matter..
 although the canadian system isnt 100% perfect, it is very good. i dont see why if people actually do the research they can improve on the imperfections of our health care system and the other 36 countries health care system that are ahead of the U.S. and make it something that is excellent. of course there are going to be high initial costs but the end product is always worth it.. at least in the experiences with most of the people that i know..

[junya92toy]

Very good insight. Im afraid here in america they wont let someone get certain treatment based on a statistic.

[germ [OP]]

Look at all the other wonderful programs the Fed runs, and you can see about how well they'll do with healthcare. Medicare=Broke, Amtrak=Broke, Medicade=broke, welfare-broke. I cannot think of a single example (there may be one, but I can't think of it), where the fed has run a program where it didn't cost way more than anyone predicted, and increase beurocratic BS to new heights.

The worst part however, is that the lawmakers are not even reading the bill. They will glance thru parts of it, but then rely on someone elses "headlines" to explain what it will do. If you take a few minutes to read it, you'll see how you would pretty much need the entire collection of federal statutes available to try and figure out what they are doing. I tried to look up a few of them, but it's really hard to find, and then figure out what the change they are making is going to do.

I also have a problem with them "mandating" that everyone have some form of health care insurance, and then putting language in the bill that provides for fines or even criminal prosecution if you do not meet their definition of "coverage".

Erik

[Rocksurfer]

Look at all the other wonderful programs the Fed runs, and you can see about how well they'll do with healthcare. Medicare=Broke, Amtrak=Broke, Medicade=broke, welfare-broke. I cannot think of a single example (there may be one, but I can't think of it), where the fed has run a program where it didn't cost way more than anyone predicted, and increase beurocratic BS to new heights.

We don't need a list of them just one....

U.S. Government=broke

Why am I laughing at that.   

The worst part however, is that the lawmakers are not even reading the bill. They will glance thru parts of it, but then rely on someone elses "headlines" to explain what it will do. If you take a few minutes to read it, you'll see how you would pretty much need the entire collection of federal statutes available to try and figure out what they are doing. I tried to look up a few of them, but it's really hard to find, and then figure out what the change they are making is going to do.

Do they ever "read" the whole bill or just hear what the proponents want them to hear.

I also have a problem with them "mandating" that everyone have some form of health care insurance, and then putting language in the bill that provides for fines or even criminal prosecution if you do not meet their definition of "coverage".

Kinda reminds you of the debtors prisons of England don't it. 

[Trunkz]

and btw canadian health care is not free, its tax money

[Stocker]

and btw canadian health care is not free, its tax money

I'm glad someone pointed that out...  

[germ [OP]]

Do they ever "read" the whole bill or just hear what the proponents want them to hear.

I was reading somewhere that the entire "patriot act" bill was only posted on the congress/senate intranet for 15 minutes before they were to vote on it, and only about 2 of them actually tried to take the time to read about it. Seems pretty nutes that the legistlature would "vote" away so many of our individual freedoms without even reading what their doing.

[germ [OP]]

I think it would be good for lawmakers to write out the entire bill in language that can be understood. Instead of "section 8594 of chapter 38 subparagraph c(iii) will be changed from "if" to "or"" it should be spelled out exactly what the new section would read. I think it would make for much more enlightened decisions and better laws. While we're at it, I think that for every new law that is enacted, one should be removed from the books completely. Too many of the existing regulations counter what is written in other places.

erik

[kneedownnate]

actually dude, it pretty much is as easy just to go down to the corner medi clinic and say "im sick" and usually within 20 minutes you go and get treated.. 

I wonder if it's maybe a regional thing, maybe you live in a less congested area?  I also have to wonder how many mis-truths you're subject to up there, seeing as how canada seems to like spreading anti-american propoganda, not to mention almost all but 1 of our media outlets are liberal and don't spread the truth.

and btw canadian health care is not free, its tax money

But do you have to be employed or previously employed to qualify?  IE, is there initiative, other than a steady income, to persue employ?

[BLACKDOG]

I think it would be good for lawmakers to write out the entire bill in language that can be understood. Instead of "section 8594 of chapter 38 subparagraph c(iii) will be changed from "if" to "or"" it should be spelled out exactly what the new section would read. I think it would make for much more enlightened decisions and better laws. While we're at it, I think that for every new law that is enacted, one should be removed from the books completely. Too many of the existing regulations counter what is written in other places.

erik

while we're at it, let's limit the length of the stupid bill! There's so many riders and add-ons that it seems like half the bills aren't even about what they started out to be. 

Couple thousand words of plain English. Is that so hard to ask for?

[kneedownnate]

How bout just abolishing riders and add ons all together?  With the new simpler 2,000 word requirement, there'd be plenty of time for new proposals, therefor they could decide what truly should or shouldn't be voted in. 

[Trunkz]

But do you have to be employed or previously employed to qualify?  IE, is there initiative, other than a steady income, to persue employ?

nope its no cost to anyone that is a canadian citizen, might also explain why a buddie of mine that is canadian paid about 65% income taxes last year

[Stocker]

a buddie of mine that is canadian paid about 65% income taxes last year

As alluded to above... nothing is free. Eventually, someone will have to pick up the tab.  



At what point do we simply turn over all of our income, in exchange for whatever we need -- to be doled out by the government, of course.  If they determine that we need it.

  Oh wait -- that's been done. 

[Rocksurfer]

I like this part of the bill, it requires that all employers provide insurance to their employee's. So lets say I'm an employer that employs illegals, legally I must provide them with insurance which means the bill WILL allow illegals insurance under the rules, and just to make it understandable as to why this would happen since the bill actually does exclude them is that if you've ever been an employer you understand that illegals do come up with valid S.S. numbers that get them regular jobs. Employers can only verify the number as being valid.