Author Topic: Link Geometrey (Read 6291 times)

TacoRunner · « **on:** May 09, 2009, 08:09:53 PM »

I put this question to you that have done this before. Not the internet experts that have only read about it.

A few months ago I linked the rear as well. Again I went with the ORS kit. I must say that the tracktion is amazing. And it flex's amazingly. But it too walks/lifts the backend under the vehicle. Now over the years I've spent many hours reading about the geometrey of linked suspension. I believe that this walking or lifting is the anti squat that is designed into the suspension. While I love the tracktion, I've found that it is very unstable on the rocks. It sounds like it would work great but you are never on level ground, so I've found myself getting tippy while climbing a hill that is/ lets say 20 degree's tilted to the left or right and 40 degree's verticle.

So, from those of you that have linked the back end. What is the best way to combat this problem. Do I put a stap to it/ to limit the amount of pushing downward that the axle has or do you rework the suspension for less anti squat and sacrifice traction for stability. Or is there a 3rd option that I not thinking of?

sandboxtoy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2009, 11:31:50 PM »

watched a good demo of this on spike tv last weekend. xtreme 4x4, dig it up it will answer your question.

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2009, 11:48:13 PM »

are you runnin air shocks, coilovers or what, also you runnin a sway bar

Bazzi · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2009, 03:50:13 AM »

http://www.spike.com/full-episode/suspension-101-rock/30579
do you mean this.

also I am having the same problem

Aaronn · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2009, 07:29:08 AM »

post some good pics of your suspension...

Bazzi · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2009, 10:32:16 AM »

can someone show me pics of this ors kit... My setup is home made Icelandic garage thingy...

and I have been messing around with it so much that it isn´t really pretty any more.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2009, 04:05:25 PM »

Quote from: rockcrawlintoy on May 09, 2009, 11:48:13 PM

are you runnin air shocks, coilovers or what, also you runnin a sway bar

Coilovers. About 150 total spring rate, no anti sway bar.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2009, 04:06:18 PM »

Quote from: Bazzi on May 10, 2009, 10:32:16 AM

can someone show me pics of this ors kit... My setup is home made Icelandic garage thingy... and I have been messing around with it so much that it isn´t really pretty any more.

Dont worry about it, because the company decided to close its doors about 6 months ago.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2009, 04:18:48 PM »

Quote from: sandboxtoy on May 09, 2009, 11:31:50 PM

watched a good demo of this on spike tv last weekend. xtreme 4x4, dig it up it will answer your question.

As fun as that show is, Eian is wrong regarding his discription of how to get anti squat from your suspension, perhaps it was an oversight and they sliped up or maybe he has been misinformed. Either way, they are wrong.

KYOTA · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2009, 04:27:00 PM »

if you have room under there and it was mine, I'd bend a piece of tube and make a crossmember and swing those lowers in at the frame. Did you happen to look at mine at the hammers? dual tri and it did awesome I was very happy with the way it performed. oh yeah you have the gas tank to deal with still & thats why you went single tri with straight lowers? are your uppers adjustable? if so start playing with location. I thought your runner did well but I wasnt in the seat

edit: is that your gas tank in the back?

Steve_925 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2009, 04:45:23 PM »

to get rid of the squat i would say make the links a parallel as possible, but i know from experience that a perfectly parallel 4 link get very crappy tracsion. i would try a winch for the rear, cheap and easy and if it doesnt solve your problem you still have a winch back there

rockwalker · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2009, 06:20:12 PM »

put a sway bar on it and it will be fine. I'm running air shocks and it works great get rock equipment they have a sway bar for the tube that holds the gas tank in the rear goes right inside

rockwalker · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2009, 06:21:59 PM »

the rear stays down and makes the front work harder

TacoRunner · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2009, 07:16:12 PM »

Quote from: KYOTA on May 11, 2009, 04:27:00 PM

if you have room under there and it was mine, I'd bend a piece of tube and make a crossmember and swing those lowers in at the frame. Did you happen to look at mine at the hammers? dual tri and it did awesome I was very happy with the way it performed. oh yeah you have the gas tank to deal with still & thats why you went single tri with straight lowers? are your uppers adjustable? if so start playing with location. I thought your runner did well but I wasnt in the seat

edit: is that your gas tank in the back?

Ya gas tanks in the back so thats not an issue, but I was talking about was the first ledge or hill on Jack that we did. I think I tried it before you caught up to us. I was climbing this thing which was at least 40degrees and everything was going good but the further I pushed up the hill the more the butt end of the truck wanted to raise into the air. Beven ( a freind of Marlins) said that the axle was walking under the truck. The axle was moving forward but the truck was raiseing up rather then being pushed up the hill. He told me that I needed to put a strap at the diff to keep it from droping to much. Im talking a strap at each end of the axle to limit the shook, but rather at the diff so it limits how much the truck can pull away from the axle. If that makes any sense

TacoRunner · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2009, 07:18:59 PM »

Quote from: rockwalker on May 11, 2009, 06:20:12 PM

put a sway bar on it and it will be fine. I'm running air shocks and it works great get rock equipment they have a sway bar for the tube that holds the gas tank in the rear goes right inside

Thanks but a swaybar will not fix what Im referring to.

I've thought that maybe I have to much anti squat in the suspension and my need to tone it down a bit. You see Im really dont like baidaids like limit staps at the diff. I'd perf to have the suspension dialed in and not need such things.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2009, 07:22:44 PM »

Quote from: KYOTA on May 11, 2009, 04:27:00 PM

if you have room under there and it was mine, I'd bend a piece of tube and make a crossmember and swing those lowers in at the frame. Did you happen to look at mine at the hammers? dual tri and it did awesome I was very happy with the way it performed.

I know but, but from what I've read (and I've only read this) thats great for crawling but not for freeway speeds. And I drive my junk to the trails so I'm think'en less is more here.

Quote from: steve_925 on May 11, 2009, 04:45:23 PM

to get rid of the squat i would say make the links a parallel as possible, but i know from experience that a perfectly parallel 4 link get very crappy tracsion. i would try a winch for the rear, cheap and easy and if it doesnt solve your problem you still have a winch back there

Ya dont want that but I think that Im sitting at about 85% anti sqwat and I may need to look at 50% or so.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2009, 07:26:45 PM »

Found this while tooling around on pirate

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431136&highlight=link+geometrey

Kind of where Im going

TacoRunner · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2009, 07:30:40 AM »

Ok after reading more of the link posted above. I've decided no to listen to him. It seems like another of God of Suspensions.

Ramrod · « **Reply #18 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:45:04 AM »

id lift up the frame end of the uppers a little bit and make the mounts adjustable so you can play with it a little bit. Looking from the side imagine your links are really long, they shouldnt intersect untill at least the very front of the truck or else you are going to get the issues your talking about. Also a sway bar helps alot if your still not happy

Aaronn · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:57:33 AM »

you will get some better opinions if you post a good side pic ,at ride height. That way we can see how your suspension is set up.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #20 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:18:02 PM »

Quote from: Aaronn on May 12, 2009, 09:57:33 AM

you will get some better opinions if you post a good side pic ,at ride height. That way we can see how your suspension is set up.

Good Point

TacoRunner · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:18:56 PM »

TacoRunner · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:19:34 PM »

TacoRunner · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:24:02 PM »

TacoRunner · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:30:29 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod on May 12, 2009, 09:45:04 AM

id lift up the frame end of the uppers a little bit and make the mounts adjustable so you can play with it a little bit. Looking from the side imagine your links are really long, they shouldnt intersect untill at least the very front of the truck or else you are going to get the issues your talking about. Also a sway bar helps alot if your still not happy

Lower rear's are about 42" Adjustable uppers, ya that and Im thinking that and raise lower's at the axle.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2009, 05:33:24 PM »

I actually monted the lowers at the axle about an inch or so lower than the kit called todo. But I was unsure of how it would drive and mounted them the way I did so that I could put the leaf springs back on if I had to.

Ramrod · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:01:14 PM »

looks like all your link angles are pretty steep, lowering your ride hight a couple inches would help that quite a bit

Ramrod · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:02:57 PM »

definitly not enough separation at the frame end

TacoRunner · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:04:03 PM »

Ya those pic's were right after I finished it. the truck did settle down about 2 inches after driving it for awhile. But I do agree that at least the lower looks a bit steep.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:06:58 PM »

Frame separation is about 6" and at the axle its 9.75"

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