Timing sensor? What is it? What does it look like?

[Lonestar Honcho]

This question is in response to my post here: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=57298.0

I've been having a noise in my freshly rebuilt 22r in my '82 with about 3000 miles on it.

Started just a couple of days ago. First was that the engine wouldn't stay running...almost as if my fuel filter was clogged. Then the engine would make this slapping noise as if a rod was loose. Happened a couple of times again yesterday when cold as I tried showing a few people at work. They didn't have any clue but from the grimace on their face I knew it wasn't good. Did it again this morning when I started it up.

Left work this morning and decided to drive by a older mechanic to get an opinion from a professional. By the time I got to the mechanic the sound had gone away.
Got him to listen to it anyways but of course it didn't make a sound except for the rattling guides.

We talked and he told me that if it doesn't do it all the time it's "probably" ok. He mentioned that there is a timing sensor or solenoid that might be malfuntioning. This would cause it to make the slapping noise and generally not run right...such as when it seems to have a clogged fuel filter. Other than that, he told me if it does it again come on by and he'll listen again.

Does anyone here have any experience with the timing devices on this pickup or any experience similiar to this one?
Thanks in advance.
8)

[MC387]

I dont no of any "timing sensor" on the 22r that could caust the engine to make a slaping sound.  I suppose he could be talking about the vacuum advance/ retard on the distributor.  That could definately make the engine have poor perfomance.  As for the slapping noise, we need to know a few things about your engine.  Did you install a new chain, tensioner, and guides when you rebuilt the engine?  Did you replace the pistons?  Or is this one of the $900 Ebay rebuilt engines?  Also, what tyoe of oil filter are you using?  If the noise only occours for a breif period on startup it could be that the filter is not holding oil in while shut down.  It also could be loose flywheel bolts.

[Lonestar Honcho]

Sorry about this topic being here. If the administrators want to move it over its fine by me. It was meant to go to "engine performance".

MC387, it was a new rebuilt shortblock. I opted to install a LC Engineering single row timing kit with metal backing plate. The head's been rebuilt. Everything is basically new.

I understand that its hard to explain a NOISE on the internet. I'm hoping to see if there is such a thing as a timing device other than manually adjusting your distributor.

Thanksfor the reply none the less.

[79coyotefrg]

He mentioned that there is a timing sensor or solenoid that might be malfuntioning.

  OMG what a    

Honcho,  this guy has apparently NEVER worked on a 22R in his life

there is absolutely no type of sensor of any sort on the timing of a 22R or RE for that matter

and i sure hope he wasnt referring to the valve guides when he said "rattling guides"    the valve guides are pressed into the head and do not move AT ALL,  i once tried to remove the valve guides from a junk head just to see if i could,  after  eventually beating on them with a 2 lb baby sledge the y broke into pieces along with part of the head

now from what you described it could be the timing chain tensioner,

was the timing chain tensioner replaced??  it should have been replaced with the timing chain and timing chain guides

[MC387]

As I stated there is a vacuum advance, Retard unit on those distributors.  It would be the two, or sometimes one pod that the vacuum hoses attach to on the dist.  These do affect timing by moving the plate inside the distributor that the pickup coil is attatched to.  This could definately cause the lack of power if they are either sticking or if the diaphram inside has ruptured.  Also if the are improperly connected.  I do not think that they could caus a slapping noise though.  There is also a small box in the interior of the vehicle that usually says emissions control on it.  I have hear that on some older trucks the solder joints can break free.  This can also cause the lack of power.  I have been told that it is fairly easy to dissasemble and repair that unit.  Again, I really cant see any noise being caused by that unit.

Just a few points on diagnostic of noises. 

A very good starting point is to remove the belts,  you would be amazed by how many "engine noises" can be linked to the accesories or even a faulty water pump.  Trust me.  I have been bitten by this before.  Plus you wont have to deal with spinning fans and belts while performing the next step.  For obvious reasons you can not drive far like this.

Next I would use a mechanics stethascope to determine where on the block the noise is loudest.  This should point you to either bottom end or top end problems.

Another very useful tool is a compression check.  I know it seams useless, but bent rods, sticking valves and other problems such as broken/ weak valve springs can be easily detirmined.  If the valve guides, (which can be replaced by following the procedure in the FSM) were replaced it is possible that one is a little tight.

Also, my old 22re would get a valve tap when cold.  I would try checking the valve adjustment.  Remember any new/ rebuilt head is going to have changes in the valve clearance as it wears in.  22r's dont have hydraulic lash adjusters to make up for it.

If the sould is from the bottom end you are really left with no other option than to remove the pan and inspect.

Please note that I am not trying to belitle you in any way, I do not know what your skill level is and am merely offering advice.  You will also note that I have a "mystey noise" thread too.  Sometimes even experienced mechanics can need advice.

[Lonestar Honcho]

Thank y'all for the replies. My ear is a bit off and today after driving it around for awhile trying to blow it up, I came to a conclusion.

Well, I came to a source for the noise. It's coming from the clutch, flywheel, shift fork area. What made me think spun bearing was the sound it was making while in neutral. Seems something is sticking to make it spin something while it's in neutral. Got all the bolts off today. I'll report back when I find the source tomorrow.

Thanks again for y'alls replies their most appreciated.