NEW to toys

[bradleyb 412]

I just bought an 87 pickup the other day.  I have found an 84 with good axles.  Can I use the factory steering components or do I need to by the high dollar cross over kit?  What kind of room do I have for a small block chevy?  Will it go or is there not enough room?

[bigarms23]

i would go with high steer and you can stuff either a 4.3,5.3,350 chevy motors seems to be the common swaps. use the front 84 axles and keep the rear 87axle

[BLACKDOG]

First off, to marlin!!  

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?board=7.0

I just bought an 87 pickup the other day.  I have found an 84 with good axles.  Can I use the factory steering components or do I need to by the high dollar cross over kit?  What kind of room do I have for a small block chevy?  Will it go or is there not enough room?

to use the axles off the 84, you would have to do what is called a Solid Axle Swap, or SAS.  This is done by removing all of the IFS equipment from the vehicle, and welding on the necessary stuff (spring hanger, shackle tubes ) to mount the solid front axle from the 84.  The stock steering is different between IFS and Solid Axle (SA) trucks, so yes, you would need to buy the high dollar crossover kit, or reuse the steering stuff from the 84, which would be a PITA to mount, and is not near the quality of steering that the crossover steering is, especially if you plan on lifting your vehicle.  

You have room for a small block chevy, its been done many times.  It's tight, but it will fit.

[bradleyb 412]

Thanks for the welcome!!!!!!!!!!       The truck is going to be used for work mostly but if I get a bur up my you know what I want it to be capable.  I am starting my own business and this is going to be my primary work vehicle it currently has a plow on it and we are going to fab the bracket and put back on after the axle swap.  Im on a limited budget so that is why I was wondering about the steering.  If I can take everything from the 84 it will work?  Do I need the gear box as well or just the rest of the hardwear?  Is the 87 rearend better?  The only lift I am thinking for now is a body lift.  Reason for wanting to know about the v8 swap is because I have been told that if a small block will fit a 4bt will fit.  That will be the reason for the body lift due to the hieght of that motor.

[bradleyb 412]

Also should I by the kit of the Marlin web page or use the shakles and hangers off of the 84?

[BLACKDOG]

The Marlin kit is designed as a lift kit, so if you want to keep the truck stock height, you'd be fine using the shackles and so forth from the '84.  I would purchase the front spring hanger from them, or make it yourself if you have decent fabrication skills.    If you are talking about putting in a 4bt, I'd consider getting a small suspension lift, or seriously upgrading your front springs.  The toyota springs are not designed to hold that much weight   Another thing to consider, if the '84 is complete, is doing a small lift now, by using the rear springs from the '84 as the front springs for the SAS.  This is a very common trick, you can take the spring packs apart, and pick and choose which leaves you use, thus setting a ride height that you would like.  Those springs will give you more weight handling on the front as well, in preparation for the 4bt, should you put that in.

In order to use the push/pull (stock SA steering) you would have to use everything from the 84, the gear box, the steering arms, and the steering rods. 

In the long run, I would really recommend going with the high steer.  You're taking a step forward with the solid axle, and then taking two steps back on the steering.  The '87 already has the IFS steering box mounted for the high steer, the high steer arms are stronger than the factory ones, and the steering design is better over all.  You'l have greater steering component strength, control, and ride quality using crossover. 

The '87 rear end is a tad wider than the '84 rear end (2" or so, I think)  and the housing is stronger.    Just make sure the gears in the front and rear axles are the same ratio before you use 4wd.  Mismatched ratios and 4wd don't mix very well. 

[bradleyb 412]

The axle kit I seen earlier today was just the front tube and the shackles.  I have also been considering reinforcing my plow bracket and using it for the front mounts, but I am worried about it having a higher ride hieght than what I am wanting.  I already own the 4bt and have been looking for something to put it in something older and solid(which is hard to find in ohio) as well as something that would get some kickass fuel mileage I found it! 87 toyota 4x4.  I was planning to beef up the front springs I was going to have a set made with a positve arch so it would be lifted slightly 2 or 3 inches.  The 4bt is only slightly heavier than a big block.  I will check into the high steer kit I will look as soon as I get done with this post.  Have you heard of anyone that has put a 4bt into a toyota? 

[BLACKDOG]

I'm sure it has been done, but I can't think of ever seeing it. 

With the stock rears, like I said, you can mix and match the leaves to get the ride height.  Mini simp on here has RUF (rears up front) and I believe he has something like 1.5" lift?  for sure, but it is low, and he did it by swapping springs and such in the spring pack

[79coyotefrg]

if using it for work,  to be honest i would keep the ifs,  run a 2 inch body lift,  run the 22re  till it dies  then do a engine swap,  a 4bt is DAMN heavy for a toyota  a 1KZ would be a cool conversion

[bradleyb 412]

I will be considering the rear springs up front idea.  I have seen 4bt's in just about every jeep know to man kind wranglers cherokees little jeep pickups which are about the same size as my toyota.  Not a big fan of ifs it is not very strong plowing snow is hard on a truck but it is real hard on ifs plus I am just into the old sckool straight axle look.  If the stock toy axles can't handle it I have a set 1 tons I am going to have narrowed but for know this is all I can afford to do.  What is a 1kz?

[bradleyb 412]

By the way 79coyotefrg I like your truck it looks pretty good

[BLACKDOG]

1kz is a toyota diesel  

[79coyotefrg]

By the way 79coyotefrg I like your truck it looks pretty good

thanks,  its been ALOT of work

the 1KZT is toyota's  3 liter turbo diesel, 140 hp  and like 230 pounds of torque  and weighs about half  of what a 4bt does

this  guys Willy's has a 1KZT

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=6472.0   start at around page 75

[79coyotefrg]

i think his 1KZT  conversion starts around page 75

[ninja turtle]

welcome to marlin!!

[bradleyb 412]

I bought the 84 axle today I am going to try and use the stock hangers and springs for now I want to see how well the springs will hold to the wieght of the 4bt.  Tear down will most likly start in about 2 weeks.  I am going to be posting before and after pics soon

[BLACKDOG]

I bought the 84 axle today I am going to try and use the stock hangers and springs for now I want to see how well the springs will hold to the wieght of the 4bt.  Tear down will most likly start in about 2 weeks.  I am going to be posting before and after pics soon

I wouldn't even try to use the stock front springs.  With the negative arch they're designed with, I would think all that extra weight would cause them too arch too far. 

[kneedownnate]

the 1KZT is toyota's  3 liter turbo diesel, 140 hp  and like 230 pounds of torque

Try about 290 ft lb of torque I think 

[bradleyb 412]

I am going to use the stock springs temporaly to see how bad it sags,most likly i will have a set of springs made with very little lift but a positve arch iwas going to originally run the factory transfercase and 700r4 but advanced adapter only makes adapter from toy standard case not toy auto so i am running the 700r4 with 208 case.  any thought on this? are all toyota straight axles closed knuckle?  does that make the axle stronger?

[bradleyb 412]

Also one more ? is the 1kz diesel hard to find?  will it bolt to any toy tranny? or were they all bolted to standards?

[BLACKDOG]

I am going to use the stock springs temporaly to see how bad it sags,most likly i will have a set of springs made with very little lift but a positve arch iwas going to originally run the factory transfercase and 700r4 but advanced adapter only makes adapter from toy standard case not toy auto so i am running the 700r4 with 208 case.  any thought on this? are all toyota straight axles closed knuckle?  does that make the axle stronger?

As far as I know, they are.  The axle they use uses a constant velocity joint (CV) instead of a ujoint system.  Instead of 4 points of contact, it is more like a ball and socket.  This does make them stronger, due to simply having more contact area at all times in the axle.  (best I can explain it, hope it makes sense)

Also one more ? is the 1kz diesel hard to find?  will it bolt to any toy tranny? or were they all bolted to standards?

Yes, it is not available in the US.  Willymammoth had to jump through hoops to get the accesories he needed for it, had to order parts from Australia, I believe.  Read his thread, starting around page 75 according to glen, to get more answers.